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View Full Version : Re: Earth Day Bike Action -and- Critical Mass


andrew smith
April 26th 04, 02:51 AM
"Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
...
>
> We can all be proud because biking is up 20% in NYC and will
> continue, in large part because of you and your participation in
> Critical Mass

Absolutely untrue.

a.

Tom Keats
April 26th 04, 06:05 AM
In article . net>,
"andrew smith" > writes:
> "Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> We can all be proud because biking is up 20% in NYC and will
>> continue, in large part because of you and your participation in
>> Critical Mass
>
> Absolutely untrue.

I wouldn't be surprised if CM was a tourism draw.
And if tourists find they can cycle around a city
and get acquainted with it, they might be inclined
to return and do it again. Maybe even move there.

Maybe car use historically proliferated because they
had their own "Critical Mass". History can repeat
itself w/ other transportation modes.


- Tom

--
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Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Jym Dyer
April 26th 04, 05:04 PM
| We can all be proud because biking is up 20% in NYC and will
| continue, in large part because of you and your participation
| in Critical Mass.

(I should mention that that's boilerplate text from TIME'S UP!)

> Absolutely untrue.

=v= New York does indeed seem to be following a pattern I've
seen in other cities: a Critical Mass reaches critical mass,
then within 3 years you get an energized bike activist community
and a bunch more people on bikes. An alternative argument has
been made that the greenways are putting more people on bikes,
but for me that leads back to the energized bike activists.

=v= So, no, not absolutely untrue.
<_Jym_>

andrew smith
April 28th 04, 02:31 AM
"Tom Keats" > wrote in message
...
> In article . net>,
> "andrew smith" > writes:
> > "Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> We can all be proud because biking is up 20% in NYC and will
> >> continue, in large part because of you and your participation in
> >> Critical Mass
> >
> > Absolutely untrue.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if CM was a tourism draw.
> And if tourists find they can cycle around a city
> and get acquainted with it, they might be inclined
> to return and do it again. Maybe even move there.

I see it now...someone sitting at home thinking, "I sure would like to go to
Manhattan. I wonder if Critical Mass has proven that you can ride a bicycle
in Manhattan? Well, they probably haven't, so I won't go there."

> Maybe car use historically proliferated because they
> had their own "Critical Mass". History can repeat
> itself w/ other transportation modes.

What has that to do with a bunch of folks making enemies by intentionally
snarling traffic?

a.

andrew smith
April 28th 04, 02:33 AM
"Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
...
> | We can all be proud because biking is up 20% in NYC and will
> | continue, in large part because of you and your participation
> | in Critical Mass.
>
> (I should mention that that's boilerplate text from TIME'S UP!)
>
> > Absolutely untrue.
>
> =v= New York does indeed seem to be following a pattern I've
> seen in other cities: a Critical Mass reaches critical mass,
> then within 3 years you get an energized bike activist community
> and a bunch more people on bikes. An alternative argument has
> been made that the greenways are putting more people on bikes,
> but for me that leads back to the energized bike activists.
>
> =v= So, no, not absolutely untrue.

The area I live in has a good number of bikers, is adding bike routes, and
lanes, and a bunch more people on bikes.

What is doesn't have is a bunch of jerks intentionall clogging traffic.

So, yes, absolutely untrue.

a.

Ed Ravin
April 28th 04, 09:51 PM
From somewhere in cyberspace, "andrew smith" > said:

>What has that to do with a bunch of folks making enemies by intentionally
>snarling traffic?

The traffic snarl is unintentional. The real purpose behind the Mass is
to get on your bike and have fun. Which you should probably go out and
do, given the grumpy tone of your post above.

Besides, I can report to you that traffic in Manhattan that Saturday
was mostly unaffected by the Critical Mass. The front of the Mass
poked its nose through several nasty traffic snarls on the way to
Central Park - they were provoked by other things, like the
construction on 3rd Ave that we squeezed past. It seems to me that
Manhattan traffic is capable of snarling itself up without assistance
from an occasional roving crowd of bicyclists.
--
[email protected] | Grief can take care of itself; but to get the full
panix.com | value of a joy you must have somebody to divide it with.
| -- Mark Twain

Alex Rodriguez
April 29th 04, 04:25 PM
In article >, says...

>I wouldn't be surprised if CM was a tourism draw.
>And if tourists find they can cycle around a city
>and get acquainted with it, they might be inclined
>to return and do it again. Maybe even move there.

Anyone who needs CM to ride the streets of NYC, shouldn't!
If you know the rules of the road and how to behave in traffic
you don't need a bunch of other cyclists to do it with you.
---------------
Alex

Steven M. O'Neill
April 29th 04, 04:50 PM
Alex Rodriguez > wrote:
>In article >, says...
>
>>I wouldn't be surprised if CM was a tourism draw.
>>And if tourists find they can cycle around a city
>>and get acquainted with it, they might be inclined
>>to return and do it again. Maybe even move there.
>
>Anyone who needs CM to ride the streets of NYC, shouldn't!
>If you know the rules of the road and how to behave in traffic
>you don't need a bunch of other cyclists to do it with you.

OTOH, it can be a liberating experience. My first experience
cycling in the city was a Times Up! Moonlight ride in Central
Park (not CM, but not too different). The ride itself was
off-road, but getting to the ride made me realize that I could
ride my bike in NYC. Up until then I just assumed that it
wasn't possible. (But that's just what THEY wanted me to
think.)

--
Steven O'Neill
you know who THEY are, don't you?

Jym Dyer
April 29th 04, 05:02 PM
> Anyone who needs CM to ride the streets of NYC, shouldn't!

=v= Faulty premise. Nobody said anyone *needs* CM to ride
in NYC streets. It just makes it more fun by attracting more
bicycling and more bicycling community.

=v= That said, rides in safer contexts are an ideal set of
"training wheels" to get people ready for the streets.
<_Jym_>

P.S.: The streets of NYC aren't actually so bad to ride on.
Unlike other U.S. cities, the surface is ruled by pedestrians,
not cars.

Alex Rodriguez
April 29th 04, 08:05 PM
In article >, says...
>> Anyone who needs CM to ride the streets of NYC, shouldn't!
>=v= Faulty premise. Nobody said anyone *needs* CM to ride
>in NYC streets. It just makes it more fun by attracting more
>bicycling and more bicycling community.

It's no fun riding with folks you can't be sure know how to ride
properly. This weekend should be interesting to watch all the
folks who take their bikes out once a year crashing into each
other. Let's hope no one gets seriously hurt.

>=v= That said, rides in safer contexts are an ideal set of
>"training wheels" to get people ready for the streets.
> <_Jym_>

That's fine, practice in the areas where there is little traffic.


>P.S.: The streets of NYC aren't actually so bad to ride on.
>Unlike other U.S. cities, the surface is ruled by pedestrians,
>not cars.

True, but those pedestrians can be a real pain. Many, many times
I have had pedestrians walk out right in front of me when they have
a red light and I have a green. It's as if they didn't see me
coming down the road.
---------------
Alex

andrew smith
May 1st 04, 01:45 AM
"Ed Ravin" > wrote in message
...
> From somewhere in cyberspace, "andrew smith" >
said:
>
> >What has that to do with a bunch of folks making enemies by intentionally
> >snarling traffic?
>
> The traffic snarl is unintentional. The real purpose behind the Mass is
> to get on your bike and have fun. Which you should probably go out and
> do, given the grumpy tone of your post above.

I ride every day. What I don't do is ask 500 people to ride in the same
place at the same time with the intention of proving that I belong on the
street. I know I belong on the street. Whether someone else disagrees is
of no concern to me.

> Besides, I can report to you that traffic in Manhattan that Saturday
> was mostly unaffected by the Critical Mass.

This I can believe. One of the dumbest things I ever did was take public
transport from Jersey City to Brooklyn one Sunday morning on the way to
church. It took about an hour. All that time I realized my truck was
patiently waiting in the garage. The next week I made the drive in about 20
minutes.

a.

PS I'm not grumpy. I just disagree with the tactic of riding bikes during
rush hour to prove some point.

andrew smith
May 1st 04, 01:47 AM
"Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
...
> > Anyone who needs CM to ride the streets of NYC, shouldn't!
>
> =v= Faulty premise. Nobody said anyone *needs* CM to ride
> in NYC streets. It just makes it more fun by attracting more
> bicycling and more bicycling community.
>
> =v= That said, rides in safer contexts are an ideal set of
> "training wheels" to get people ready for the streets.
> <_Jym_>
>
> P.S.: The streets of NYC aren't actually so bad to ride on.
> Unlike other U.S. cities, the surface is ruled by pedestrians,
> not cars.

In my experience, my local single track is probably better surfaced than the
streets of Manhattan.

a.

Ed Ravin
May 1st 04, 06:15 AM
From somewhere in cyberspace, "andrew smith" > said:

>> >What has that to do with a bunch of folks making enemies by intentionally
>> >snarling traffic?
>>
>> The traffic snarl is unintentional. The real purpose behind the Mass is
>> to get on your bike and have fun. Which you should probably go out and
>> do, given the grumpy tone of your post above.
>
>I ride every day. What I don't do is ask 500 people to ride in the same
>place at the same time with the intention of proving that I belong on the
>street. I know I belong on the street. Whether someone else disagrees is
>of no concern to me.
....
>PS I'm not grumpy. I just disagree with the tactic of riding bikes during
>rush hour to prove some point.

Read my message again. We do it for fun. Pure, unadulterated,
joyous, celebratory fun. Tonight's Critical Mass in NYC, for
example, had well over a thousand (!) participants. We may have
made an enemy here and there, but we also made hundreds of friends
- people were lined up on Manhattan avenues and cross streets
applauding, cheering, and in general smiling, laughing, and enjoying
the spectacle. The Mass ended at the NYC Bike Show, where there
was not only free admission for the rest of the night, free indoor
bike parking, but also free beer from the Brooklyn Brewery. Read
my lips: FUN, FUN, FUN.

PS: You are grumpy. If you weren't, you'd realize that 7:30 PM, when the
Mass takes off, isn't exactly rush hour.
--
[email protected] | Grief can take care of itself; but to get the full
panix.com | value of a joy you must have somebody to divide it with.
| -- Mark Twain

Jym Dyer
May 1st 04, 02:05 PM
> It's no fun riding with folks you can't be sure know how
> to ride properly.

=v= I think if you surveyed the many, many, many bicyclists
who went on last night's ride (down Broadway, up 6th Ave,
down through Time's Square, up again, over, up, and down
again, ending at a CHVNK 666 disco bike rally at the New
York Bicycle Show), "no fun" would be perhaps the last
words leaving their lips.

=v= You seem determined to diss Critical Mass no matter what
actual participants do or say about it, so about all that's
left to say to you is ...
_ _
( \ / )
_\ \ _ _ / /_
(((\ \ / X \ / /)))
(\\\\ \_/ / \ \_/ ////) hat-everrr!
\ / \ /
\ _/ \_ /
/ / \ \
/___/ \___\

Have a nice day,
<_Jym_>

Jym Dyer
May 1st 04, 02:06 PM
> PS: You are grumpy. If you weren't, you'd realize that
> 7:30 PM, when the Mass takes off, isn't exactly rush hour.

=v= And for such Grumpy Gusses, there is only one cure: A
fun Critical Mass bike ride. Woo hoo!
<_Jym_>

andrew smith
May 1st 04, 11:45 PM
"Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
...
> > PS: You are grumpy. If you weren't, you'd realize that
> > 7:30 PM, when the Mass takes off, isn't exactly rush hour.
>
> =v= And for such Grumpy Gusses, there is only one cure: A
> fun Critical Mass bike ride. Woo hoo!

Since there's no need for bike riots here, I went mtb'ing alone this
morning. I saw some deer, geese, ducks, etc.

It was really nice.

Grumpy Gus

Jym Dyer
May 3rd 04, 03:35 AM
> Since there's no need for bike riots here, I went mtb'ing
> alone this morning. I saw some deer, geese, ducks, etc.

=v= I must've missed the riots when I was on Critical Mass.
Where/when did they occur?
<_Jym_>

andrew smith
May 3rd 04, 04:41 PM
"Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
...
> > Since there's no need for bike riots here, I went mtb'ing
> > alone this morning. I saw some deer, geese, ducks, etc.
>
> =v= I must've missed the riots when I was on Critical Mass.
> Where/when did they occur?

Humor impairment got you down?

a.

matty j
May 4th 04, 12:02 AM
"andrew smith" > wrote in message et>...
> "Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Since there's no need for bike riots here, I went mtb'ing
> > > alone this morning. I saw some deer, geese, ducks, etc.
> >
> > =v= I must've missed the riots when I was on Critical Mass.
> > Where/when did they occur?
>
> Humor impairment got you down?
>
> well having gone to the nyc bike show friday night and seeing the
critical mass ride first hand all i can say it did nothing but hurt
the biking image..first off there was total chaos on the roads as
motorists and an ambulence were blocked in.there were quite a few
almost fist fights between angry motorists and the bikers who planred
their butts almost on top of the the hoods of their cars and blocked
them in.
it was quite in violation of quite a few new york laws as well.
nys law makes it unlawful for bikers to ride more than two abreast and
when a motorist needs to pass they must go single file.
no one stopped for red lights and intersections were blocked.all in
all it was pretty nasty scene......

NYRides
May 4th 04, 07:49 PM
I've said it many times before and have had my butt kicked by this group...I
really believe that Critical Mass approach is totally wrong - and an
embarrassment to all bicyclists.

"matty j" > wrote in message
m...
> "andrew smith" > wrote in message
et>...
> > "Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > Since there's no need for bike riots here, I went mtb'ing
> > > > alone this morning. I saw some deer, geese, ducks, etc.
> > >
> > > =v= I must've missed the riots when I was on Critical Mass.
> > > Where/when did they occur?
> >
> > Humor impairment got you down?
> >
> > well having gone to the nyc bike show friday night and seeing the
> critical mass ride first hand all i can say it did nothing but hurt
> the biking image..first off there was total chaos on the roads as
> motorists and an ambulence were blocked in.there were quite a few
> almost fist fights between angry motorists and the bikers who planred
> their butts almost on top of the the hoods of their cars and blocked
> them in.
> it was quite in violation of quite a few new york laws as well.
> nys law makes it unlawful for bikers to ride more than two abreast and
> when a motorist needs to pass they must go single file.
> no one stopped for red lights and intersections were blocked.all in
> all it was pretty nasty scene......

Steven Bornfeld
May 4th 04, 10:46 PM
NYRides wrote:
> I've said it many times before and have had my butt kicked by this group...I
> really believe that Critical Mass approach is totally wrong - and an
> embarrassment to all bicyclists.

I agree 100%.

Steve

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