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my fixie doesn't need improvement
but for some of you...
https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. They sketched in rim brakes which were already outdated last century. What's next? Anti-lock brakes for MTBs? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 7:25:29 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. You do and Shimano doesn'? Really? People that actually write patents are legal guys. They sketched in rim brakes which were already outdated last century. Drawings in patents are basic drawings just to illustrate what the patents is about. Probably it is not about rim brakes or disk brakes. Lou |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:25:33 -0800, Joerg
wrote: What's next? - Pre-wired electrical system for lighting and accessories. - Radar collison and approach warning system. - Various anti-theft schemes. - Ultrasonic crack detection and alarm for carbon fiber frames. - Acoustic vibration analysis while riding to warn of impending frame or component failures. - Built in strain gauges and sensors. - Gyro stabilization. - Wings and fins to improve stability. - Rear view camera and screen. - Hands free steering with heads up display. - Reflective 3M painted frame. - Lighting viewable from any angle (strip lighting). - Automatic headlight dimming for approaching traffic. - Inflatable bicycle (for easy storage and portage). - Non-Newtonian fluid filled tires. - Autogyro for longer jumps. - etc... Anti-lock brakes for MTBs? Auntie Lock Brakes have already been patented: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080111342 https://patents.google.com/patent/US6786308 https://patents.google.com/patent/US5730256 etc... -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-15 08:58, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:25:33 -0800, Joerg wrote: What's next? - Pre-wired electrical system for lighting and accessories. - Radar collison and approach warning system. - Various anti-theft schemes. - Ultrasonic crack detection and alarm for carbon fiber frames. - Acoustic vibration analysis while riding to warn of impending frame or component failures. - Built in strain gauges and sensors. - Gyro stabilization. - Wings and fins to improve stability. - Rear view camera and screen. - Hands free steering with heads up display. - Reflective 3M painted frame. - Lighting viewable from any angle (strip lighting). - Automatic headlight dimming for approaching traffic. - Inflatable bicycle (for easy storage and portage). - Non-Newtonian fluid filled tires. - Autogyro for longer jumps. - etc... I like the autogyro. Luckily we can still buy bicycles sans electronics. With motor vehicles that is becoming harder and for some categories one might be forced to buy used. Saying this as an engineer who designs electronics. Anti-lock brakes for MTBs? Auntie Lock Brakes have already been patented: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080111342 https://patents.google.com/patent/US6786308 https://patents.google.com/patent/US5730256 etc... For mountain bikers an implementation could result in nasty crashes. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:49:39 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-02-15 08:58, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:25:33 -0800, Joerg wrote: What's next? - Pre-wired electrical system for lighting and accessories. - Radar collison and approach warning system. - Various anti-theft schemes. - Ultrasonic crack detection and alarm for carbon fiber frames. - Acoustic vibration analysis while riding to warn of impending frame or component failures. - Built in strain gauges and sensors. - Gyro stabilization. - Wings and fins to improve stability. - Rear view camera and screen. - Hands free steering with heads up display. - Reflective 3M painted frame. - Lighting viewable from any angle (strip lighting). - Automatic headlight dimming for approaching traffic. - Inflatable bicycle (for easy storage and portage). - Non-Newtonian fluid filled tires. - Autogyro for longer jumps. - etc... I like the autogyro. So do I, but I don't think it can be made to work, especially on a single track trough the trees. The propeller diameter would be too large. Still, it might be fun to ride off a cliff and slowly glide down to the ground. Luckily we can still buy bicycles sans electronics. With motor vehicles that is becoming harder and for some categories one might be forced to buy used. Saying this as an engineer who designs electronics. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Anti-lock brakes for MTBs? Auntie Lock Brakes have already been patented: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080111342 https://patents.google.com/patent/US6786308 https://patents.google.com/patent/US5730256 etc... For mountain bikers an implementation could result in nasty crashes. Ummm... that was your suggestions. It would go nicely with the microwave (or optical) ground speed sensor. When the wheels and the ground are moving at different speeds, it would apply the brakes. I'll have to think of something for hops and jumps, where the wheels slow down for an extended period. Landing on the ground with the brakes locked might not be a good idea. The one thing I really don't like about bicycles is that literally every crazy idea that someone could possibly suggest, has already been tried. What keeps bicycling from ossifying in place is that the number of crazy ideas to try is growing faster than people willing to try them. There is still hope for technical progress in bicycling. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-15 10:27, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:49:39 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 08:58, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:25:33 -0800, Joerg wrote: What's next? - Pre-wired electrical system for lighting and accessories. - Radar collison and approach warning system. - Various anti-theft schemes. - Ultrasonic crack detection and alarm for carbon fiber frames. - Acoustic vibration analysis while riding to warn of impending frame or component failures. - Built in strain gauges and sensors. - Gyro stabilization. - Wings and fins to improve stability. - Rear view camera and screen. - Hands free steering with heads up display. - Reflective 3M painted frame. - Lighting viewable from any angle (strip lighting). - Automatic headlight dimming for approaching traffic. - Inflatable bicycle (for easy storage and portage). - Non-Newtonian fluid filled tires. - Autogyro for longer jumps. - etc... I like the autogyro. So do I, but I don't think it can be made to work, especially on a single track trough the trees. The propeller diameter would be too large. Still, it might be fun to ride off a cliff and slowly glide down to the ground. Luckily we can still buy bicycles sans electronics. With motor vehicles that is becoming harder and for some categories one might be forced to buy used. Saying this as an engineer who designs electronics. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. That's what people already said in the 90's yet I still drive a car that has no power windows, no electric locks, no anti-lock brakes, no automatic transmission, it's the bare bones model. Anti-lock brakes for MTBs? Auntie Lock Brakes have already been patented: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080111342 https://patents.google.com/patent/US6786308 https://patents.google.com/patent/US5730256 etc... For mountain bikers an implementation could result in nasty crashes. Ummm... that was your suggestions. No, I just a laid out a horror scenario. I would never want anti-lock brakes on a bicycle, ever. Preferably also not in a car or at least with a switch-off feature. ... It would go nicely with the microwave (or optical) ground speed sensor. When the wheels and the ground are moving at different speeds, it would apply the brakes. I'll have to think of something for hops and jumps, where the wheels slow down for an extended period. Landing on the ground with the brakes locked might not be a good idea. It would be good business for the surrounding hospitals. The one thing I really don't like about bicycles is that literally every crazy idea that someone could possibly suggest, has already been tried. What keeps bicycling from ossifying in place is that the number of crazy ideas to try is growing faster than people willing to try them. There is still hope for technical progress in bicycling. I primarily want higher quality and durability when it comes to bicycles. Also, technology often trails motor vehciles so far that it's not even funny. What is so difficult about a reasonable electrical system like cars have? I had that on bikes already 40 years ago and the industry still hasn't figured it out. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
NOLO's self patent book is 3"thick n costs $50.
THERE WILL BE NO CONFUSION as you write ABS for normal people is just plain fa$ter not as injurious. Miricacle ! |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. ... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB. ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. ... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB. ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2 is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies. You can hand-wring about most anything on a bike. Those idiots! Why did they put spokes in wheels! They break! Chains, derailleurs, linkages -- look at all the stuff people break on their MTBs all the time. You should ride a hard-tail SS with balloon tires if you're looking for bullet-proof. -- Jay Beattie. |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. ... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB. ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2 is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies. I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices. Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK. Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time. Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? You can hand-wring about most anything on a bike. Those idiots! Why did they put spokes in wheels! They break! Chains, derailleurs, linkages -- look at all the stuff people break on their MTBs all the time. You should ride a hard-tail SS with balloon tires if you're looking for bullet-proof. No, just needs to be sturdier, that's all. For example, O-ringed chains as the motorcyclist have would be nice, cuts down on maintenance effort. Other stuff has become available by now, such as ceramic-based brake pads (so far only from Asian sources). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
Oh thank god! More skills I no longer have to trouble myself to learn
and master! Forth ignorami! First Congress, then the Oval Office and now the ultimate dumb ceiling is smashed: mountain biking! No longer will the smart and expert be better than me at doing things! |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2/16/2018 5:16 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
Oh thank god! More skills I no longer have to trouble myself to learn and master! Forth ignorami! First Congress, then the Oval Office and now the ultimate dumb ceiling is smashed: mountain biking! No longer will the smart and expert be better than me at doing things! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23585.Why_Not_Me_ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. ... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB. ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. I think I *might* argue in favor of the auto transmission option as it is my understanding that it is possible for the auto transmission to give better fuel consumption then hand shifting. However, I believe that this depends on both the driver and the use that the vehicle is put to. -- Cheers, John B. |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:32:17 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. ... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB. ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2 is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies. I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices. Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK. Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time. It is said that someone once asked Edie Marckx whether he ever missed a shift with his down tube shifters. He replied, "I haven't missed a shift since I was 12 years old" Sounds as though your young rider needs more practice. Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? You can hand-wring about most anything on a bike. Those idiots! Why did they put spokes in wheels! They break! Chains, derailleurs, linkages -- look at all the stuff people break on their MTBs all the time. You should ride a hard-tail SS with balloon tires if you're looking for bullet-proof. No, just needs to be sturdier, that's all. For example, O-ringed chains as the motorcyclist have would be nice, cuts down on maintenance effort. Other stuff has become available by now, such as ceramic-based brake pads (so far only from Asian sources). -- Cheers, John B. |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. ... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB. ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2 is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies. I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices. You don't know what you are talking about. I shift the crap out of my Di2 system on my crossbike off road, front and back. I charge the battery once at the beginning of the season (november), end of the season is end of februari, battery indicator is still green, leave the bike as is during off season (march to october), battery indicator is still green or green flashing. I hose my bike at the carwash after every muddy ride which is almost every time without problems. Everything for 4 years now. DI2 is a f*cking reliable system. Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK. Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time. Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. With downtube shifters you have to reach down, move the lever and the chain still has to travel from the smallest sprocket to the largest sprocket or the other way. With DI2 you don't have to reach down. You just push and hold the switch and the chain travels in one movement from the smallest sprocket to the largest or the other way round while you pedaling. Keeping your hands on the handlebar is a huge advantage (faster and safer)in many situations compared to downtube friction shifters. Lou |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:28:45 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. ... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB. ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2 is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies. I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices. You don't know what you are talking about. I shift the crap out of my Di2 system on my crossbike off road, front and back. I charge the battery once at the beginning of the season (november), end of the season is end of februari, battery indicator is still green, leave the bike as is during off season (march to october), battery indicator is still green or green flashing.. I hose my bike at the carwash after every muddy ride which is almost every time without problems. Everything for 4 years now. DI2 is a f*cking reliable system. Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK. Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time. Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. With downtube shifters you have to reach down, move the lever and the chain still has to travel from the smallest sprocket to the largest sprocket or the other way. With DI2 you don't have to reach down. You just push and hold the switch and the chain travels in one movement from the smallest sprocket to the largest or the other way round while you pedaling. Keeping your hands on the handlebar is a huge advantage (faster and safer)in many situations compared to downtube friction shifters. Lou STI changed racing. I raced with DT friction shifters for over a decade. There was nothing better about them. All downside. The only benefit in daily riding was simplicity and durability. Your ****ty DT shifters lasted forever, and they were easy to work on. Oh, another upside of friction shifters is that they were great excuses for losing a race like "I missed a shift," or "I was sprinting out of the saddle in the wrong gear," etc., etc. They would also auto shift when the levers spontaneously loosened. -- Jay Beattie. |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. I don't see a problem: https://www.google.com/search?q=usb++hand+crank+charger&tbm=isch https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hand+crank+usb+charger Or, build your own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmqs8DIHf8 (4:04) -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-16 18:09, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:32:17 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote: but for some of you... https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/ And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out. The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about serious MTB riding. Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. ... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to 3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho Ho. And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting will stop first. Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my MTB. ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2 is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies. I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices. Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK. Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time. It is said that someone once asked Edie Marckx whether he ever missed a shift with his down tube shifters. He replied, "I haven't missed a shift since I was 12 years old" Full confession: I have missed shifts. Sounds as though your young rider needs more practice. Yes. As I said he just got this bike from his dad and didn't know index shifters. 20-30 more rides and he'll have it down. He is not the type of person that would quit and he was able to hang on pretty good on the uphill sections. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: [...] Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or brifters. Maybe you have the Di2-n version with a nuclear drive ... [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-16 17:56, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: [...] ... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2. IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it. I think I *might* argue in favor of the auto transmission option as it is my understanding that it is possible for the auto transmission to give better fuel consumption then hand shifting. It generally is the opposite which can easily be seen when comparing window stickers on the dealer lot. When we bought our cars in the late 90's automatics were about 10% worse than the same model with stick shift. An exception could be very new transmissions and continually variable ones. ... However, I believe that this depends on both the driver and the use that the vehicle is put to. Yes. The other major advantage is that stick-shift handles better on icy roads. That doesn't matter much in Thailand but it does in the California Sierras. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-17 10:31, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. I don't see a problem: https://www.google.com/search?q=usb++hand+crank+charger&tbm=isch https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hand+crank+usb+charger Or, build your own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmqs8DIHf8 (4:04) You could also strap a little Honda generator onto the rear rack. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: [...] Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys 3-3.5 sec. (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time. I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters. I don't think so. One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting. Maybe you have the Di2-n version with a nuclear drive ... No just standard Ultegra Di2. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: [...] Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys 3-3.5 sec. (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time. I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters. I don't think so. One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting. And it doesn't matter in the real world, at least not on the road. The perfect example is the Cat's Hill Criterium in Los Gatos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrG12-aG_Xc It has a hard left (or right, depending on the year) up a 20% climb on Nicholson Ave. Back in the '70s, when everyone was on friction, the set up before the hill was everyone shifting up to their last gear -- a 19 or 21 -- a second before the turn, coasting through turn and then over-spinning until momentum was lost and then out of the saddle grinding. You hit the top, flop down into the saddle, bobble for your gears and then drop it one or two cogs. Nowadays with STI and Di2 that can shift under load, you don't need to run up the cassette before you hit a hill. You keep your hands on the bars, shift up as you're hitting the bottom of the hill and keep shift as momentum wanes and the grade sets in. You can shift out of the saddle as you go unlike friction shifting. The same goes with shifting to the small cog. Back in the day, you would hump up some hill out of the saddle, and assuming the hill had a short enough crest, you would spin across it and then dump the freewheel over the other side. These days, you can stay out of the saddle and shift down for the flat crest and keep shifting over the other side. The dope with friction is in your rear-view mirror. The reason you had to shift the whole freewheel is that you couldn't get to your shifters once the hill went up or down or because you couldn't shift under load. For those on modern equipment, those concerns are a thing of the past. Shifting into your spokes is also a thing of the past for the most part -- or missing a shift. Like I said, STI changed racing. I raced before and after, and it was like night and day for someone like me who climbed out of the saddle. Crank, crank, crank, flop down into the saddle get the next gear, stand up . . . rinse, lather, repeat. In crits there was no longer that pack-wide wobble as everyone reached down to shift coming out of a corner or into a corner. That brings up another point. Crits got faster (and I got older) with people sprinting and shifting out of corners. -- Jay Beattie. |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:04:58 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-02-17 10:31, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. I don't see a problem: https://www.google.com/search?q=usb++hand+crank+charger&tbm=isch https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hand+crank+usb+charger Or, build your own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmqs8DIHf8 (4:04) You could also strap a little Honda generator onto the rear rack. I'll assume that means you don't like the hand crank generator idea. I have one and find it quite practical (although I've never had to use it in a lighting emergency). It will deliver 5v at about 500ma for furious cranking and 200ma at a comfortable rate. That's: 5v * 0.2A = 1 watt The Shimano SM-BTR2 battery, that powers the Di2, is rated at 7.4v at 500 ma-hr: https://www.cykelpartner.dk/shimano-di2-dura-ace-batteri-built-in-type_IBTDN1101.html 7.4 * 0.5 = 3.7 watt-hrs It will take: 3.7 watt-hrs / 1 watt = 3.7 hrs of moderate cranking to charge fully charge the battery. My guess(tm) is that it will operate just fine at 25% of capacity, or about 1 hr of cranking. Switch hands and take turns cranking the generator, and you should be ok. Honda doesn't make miniature gas engine models, which are usually custom built: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=miniature+model+gasoline+engines I've been thinking of grafting a PM motor as a generator onto a string trimmer motor. However, I think a steam engine, with a boiler that will run on either a solar concentrator or open fire, might be more interesting. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2/16/2018 9:09 PM, John B. wrote:
It is said that someone once asked Edie Marckx whether he ever missed a shift with his down tube shifters. He replied, "I haven't missed a shift since I was 12 years old" I never really believed Eddy's claim about never missing a shift. He rode Campy, didn't he? Was there ever anybody who didn't miss shifts with 1970s Campy stuff? -- - Frank Krygowski |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2/17/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or brifters. With friction, you may be able to slam a shift faster across the entire cassette under the right circumstances. But that tiny time advantage will be lost after just a few normal shifts. It doesn't matter to me for my riding. I still use friction shifters on several bikes. But I certainly don't do it because of faster shifts. -- - Frank Krygowski |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 20:19:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 2/17/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote: So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or brifters. With friction, you may be able to slam a shift faster across the entire cassette under the right circumstances. But that tiny time advantage will be lost after just a few normal shifts. It doesn't matter to me for my riding. I still use friction shifters on several bikes. But I certainly don't do it because of faster shifts. I even read a description of shifting both front and rear derailers at the same time. Reach across the frame, thumb on one shifter, finger on the other. Twist your hand and shift the rear derailer from the smallest cog to the largest and with the same movement the front from the largest to the smallest. Think how many time you shift from the highest gear to the lowest in one fell swoop on your usual Sunday ride :-? -- Cheers, John B. |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
My reply was so off-topic that I posted it in rec.bicycles.misc. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 19:48:27 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/16/2018 5:16 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: Oh thank god! More skills I no longer have to trouble myself to learn and master! Forth ignorami! First Congress, then the Oval Office and now the ultimate dumb ceiling is smashed: mountain biking! No longer will the smart and expert be better than me at doing things! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23585.Why_Not_Me_ Al, as it turned out, was a little too good at staying in touch with his constituents. |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
Op zaterdag 17 februari 2018 23:47:07 UTC+1 schreef jbeattie:
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-8, wrote: On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: [...] Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys 3-3.5 sec. (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time. I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters. I don't think so. One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting. And it doesn't matter in the real world, at least not on the road. The perfect example is the Cat's Hill Criterium in Los Gatos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrG12-aG_Xc It has a hard left (or right, depending on the year) up a 20% climb on Nicholson Ave. Back in the '70s, when everyone was on friction, the set up before the hill was everyone shifting up to their last gear -- a 19 or 21 -- a second before the turn, coasting through turn and then over-spinning until momentum was lost and then out of the saddle grinding. You hit the top, flop down into the saddle, bobble for your gears and then drop it one or two cogs. Nowadays with STI and Di2 that can shift under load, you don't need to run up the cassette before you hit a hill. You keep your hands on the bars, shift up as you're hitting the bottom of the hill and keep shift as momentum wanes and the grade sets in. You can shift out of the saddle as you go unlike friction shifting. The same goes with shifting to the small cog. Back in the day, you would hump up some hill out of the saddle, and assuming the hill had a short enough crest, you would spin across it and then dump the freewheel over the other side. These days, you can stay out of the saddle and shift down for the flat crest and keep shifting over the other side. The dope with friction is in your rear-view mirror. The reason you had to shift the whole freewheel is that you couldn't get to your shifters once the hill went up or down or because you couldn't shift under load. For those on modern equipment, those concerns are a thing of the past. Shifting into your spokes is also a thing of the past for the most part -- or missing a shift. Like I said, STI changed racing. I raced before and after, and it was like night and day for someone like me who climbed out of the saddle. Crank, crank, crank, flop down into the saddle get the next gear, stand up . . . rinse, lather, repeat. In crits there was no longer that pack-wide wobble as everyone reached down to shift coming out of a corner or into a corner. That brings up another point. Crits got faster (and I got older) with people sprinting and shifting out of corners. -- Jay Beattie. That is an accurate description how it went in the old days. For me 30 years ago. I know no serious cyclists these days that do not allow themselves STI shifters or the like because they can break and keep riding Fred Flintstone bikes. Only people that are into vintage do. Lou |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
wrote:
Op zaterdag 17 februari 2018 23:47:07 UTC+1 schreef jbeattie: On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-8, wrote: On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: [...] Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys 3-3.5 sec. (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time. I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters. I don't think so. One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting. And it doesn't matter in the real world, at least not on the road. The perfect example is the Cat's Hill Criterium in Los Gatos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrG12-aG_Xc It has a hard left (or right, depending on the year) up a 20% climb on Nicholson Ave. Back in the '70s, when everyone was on friction, the set up before the hill was everyone shifting up to their last gear -- a 19 or 21 -- a second before the turn, coasting through turn and then over-spinning until momentum was lost and then out of the saddle grinding. You hit the top, flop down into the saddle, bobble for your gears and then drop it one or two cogs. Nowadays with STI and Di2 that can shift under load, you don't need to run up the cassette before you hit a hill. You keep your hands on the bars, shift up as you're hitting the bottom of the hill and keep shift as momentum wanes and the grade sets in. You can shift out of the saddle as you go unlike friction shifting. The same goes with shifting to the small cog. Back in the day, you would hump up some hill out of the saddle, and assuming the hill had a short enough crest, you would spin across it and then dump the freewheel over the other side. These days, you can stay out of the saddle and shift down for the flat crest and keep shifting over the other side. The dope with friction is in your rear-view mirror. The reason you had to shift the whole freewheel is that you couldn't get to your shifters once the hill went up or down or because you couldn't shift under load. For those on modern equipment, those concerns are a thing of the past. Shifting into your spokes is also a thing of the past for the most part -- or missing a shift. Like I said, STI changed racing. I raced before and after, and it was like night and day for someone like me who climbed out of the saddle. Crank, crank, crank, flop down into the saddle get the next gear, stand up . . . rinse, lather, repeat. In crits there was no longer that pack-wide wobble as everyone reached down to shift coming out of a corner or into a corner. That brings up another point. Crits got faster (and I got older) with people sprinting and shifting out of corners. -- Jay Beattie. That is an accurate description how it went in the old days. For me 30 years ago. I know no serious cyclists these days that do not allow themselves STI shifters or the like because they can break and keep riding Fred Flintstone bikes. Only people that are into vintage do. Lou +1 -- duane |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
|
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-17 13:05, wrote:
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: [...] Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys 3-3.5 sec. See? Just what I said, this is _way_ slower than good and well maintained friction shifters. My road bike is only 7-speed but Di2 would never be able to rival the shifting speed of friction. Brifters, yes, but it can't hold a candle to friction. ... (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time. You can shift front plus back with just about any other shifter as well and I do that a lot. I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters. I don't think so. It is so. Have you ever had them? .. ... One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting. That is because in Europe "pro" means road racing. I have always preferred paths off the beaten track even well before there were mounain bikes. Maybe you have the Di2-n version with a nuclear drive ... No just standard Ultegra Di2. Yes, and it's slow. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-17 18:28, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 20:19:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/17/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote: So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or brifters. With friction, you may be able to slam a shift faster across the entire cassette under the right circumstances. But that tiny time advantage will be lost after just a few normal shifts. It doesn't matter to me for my riding. I still use friction shifters on several bikes. But I certainly don't do it because of faster shifts. I even read a description of shifting both front and rear derailers at the same time. Reach across the frame, thumb on one shifter, finger on the other. That's what I wrote elsewhere in this thread and it is what I do a lot. With one hand while the other remains on the handlebar. A friend had a bike with its the friction levers on the stem so you could operate them with your thumbs while leaving both hands on the top bar. Twist your hand and shift the rear derailer from the smallest cog to the largest and with the same movement the front from the largest to the smallest. Think how many time you shift from the highest gear to the lowest in one fell swoop on your usual Sunday ride :-? Not on my Sunday rides but it does on my weekday ride. I regularly stall the MTB because I can't slam it from high to very low fast enough, unless I know the terrain, am willing to pre-shift before the creek bed and travel accordingly slower. So I try to "beat it" by shifting at the last seconds when I think I'll have just enough time to get through all the gears, with the double-ratcheting that Deore M591 RapidFire allows. It ain't as "rapid fire" as friction. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Never had that problem with friction when in the days when I used my road bike of dirt paths (had to). That's when I wish I had a Rohloff. OTOH 1500 bucks dampens that desire and on a full suspension MTB it would get complicated anyhow. Plus it won't get me the same gear range. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-17 17:10, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:04:58 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-17 10:31, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote: Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting? I doubt it. No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region. I don't see a problem: https://www.google.com/search?q=usb++hand+crank+charger&tbm=isch https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hand+crank+usb+charger Or, build your own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmqs8DIHf8 (4:04) You could also strap a little Honda generator onto the rear rack. I'll assume that means you don't like the hand crank generator idea. I have one and find it quite practical (although I've never had to use it in a lighting emergency). It will deliver 5v at about 500ma for furious cranking and 200ma at a comfortable rate. That's: 5v * 0.2A = 1 watt The Shimano SM-BTR2 battery, that powers the Di2, is rated at 7.4v at 500 ma-hr: https://www.cykelpartner.dk/shimano-di2-dura-ace-batteri-built-in-type_IBTDN1101.html 7.4 * 0.5 = 3.7 watt-hrs It will take: 3.7 watt-hrs / 1 watt = 3.7 hrs of moderate cranking to charge fully charge the battery. My guess(tm) is that it will operate just fine at 25% of capacity, or about 1 hr of cranking. Switch hands and take turns cranking the generator, and you should be ok. Then you could as well carry a spare battery, maybe a lighter one with less capacity. Just like sensible riders carry spare AAA cells for their rear lights. Honda doesn't make miniature gas engine models, which are usually custom built: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=miniature+model+gasoline+engines You can buy regular production versions off-the-shelf: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/rcg-15cc...hp-1-54kw.html I've been thinking of grafting a PM motor as a generator onto a string trimmer motor. However, I think a steam engine, with a boiler that will run on either a solar concentrator or open fire, might be more interesting. While cooking a nice pot of beans like I did yesterday over Manzanita fire. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 4:47:46 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-17 13:05, wrote: On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: [...] Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys 3-3.5 sec. See? Just what I said, this is _way_ slower than good and well maintained friction shifters. My road bike is only 7-speed but Di2 would never be able to rival the shifting speed of friction. Brifters, yes, but it can't hold a candle to friction. ... (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time. You can shift front plus back with just about any other shifter as well and I do that a lot. I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters. I don't think so. It is so. Have you ever had them? Of course, 30 years ago and I did all the things you describe and what Jay described. I would like to invite you on one of my off road trips and I'm confident that I kick your ass. Not because I am that good but only because your shifting will be slower every time. . ... One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting. That is because in Europe "pro" means road racing. I have always preferred paths off the beaten track even well before there were mounain bikes. Even in Europe pro rider would benefit from faster shifting with your DT friction shifters and your technique. Maybe you have the Di2-n version with a nuclear drive ... No just standard Ultegra Di2. Yes, and it's slow. See the invitation above. Lou |
my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-18 08:18, wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 4:47:46 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-17 13:05, wrote: On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote: On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote: [...] Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do that. Can Di2? Of course. So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys 3-3.5 sec. See? Just what I said, this is _way_ slower than good and well maintained friction shifters. My road bike is only 7-speed but Di2 would never be able to rival the shifting speed of friction. Brifters, yes, but it can't hold a candle to friction. ... (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time. You can shift front plus back with just about any other shifter as well and I do that a lot. I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters. I don't think so. It is so. Have you ever had them? Of course, 30 years ago and I did all the things you describe and what Jay described. I would like to invite you on one of my off road trips and I'm confident that I kick your ass. Not because I am that good but only because your shifting will be slower every time. As I said now I have a mountain bike for offroad and don't have to torture my road bike there anymore. Plus it's 6000 miles from here. . ... One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting. That is because in Europe "pro" means road racing. I have always preferred paths off the beaten track even well before there were mounain bikes. Even in Europe pro rider would benefit from faster shifting with your DT friction shifters and your technique. On paved roads? Highly doubtful. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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