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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On 8 Nov 2005 13:57:14 -0800, "Vee" wrote:
Imagine placing this burden on a $6/hr clerk at Walmart. So they have to hire someone with actual brains for a change. How is this bad? Jasper |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Jasper Janssen wrote:
On 8 Nov 2005 13:57:14 -0800, "Vee" wrote: Imagine placing this burden on a $6/hr clerk at Walmart. So they have to hire someone with actual brains for a change. How is this bad? To hire people with actual brains, they would have to offer actual pay and actual benefits. Next thing you know, these braniac employees would form a union and destroy poor, defenseless Walmart from within. You must hate America to even suggest such a thing. The more realistic solution is to stop selling bikes with QR's, as someone else suggested. -Vee |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
In article , adr5
@columbia.edu says... In article .com, says... Yes I'm sure you could. We were talking about kids who buy their bikes at walmart.... You or I and the story is different. Agreed. The staff should be requred to leave instructions on the wheel and show the parents how to operate the QR before they walk out of the store. Make each parent sign a statement saying they were instructed in the proper use of a QR would be a good idea. Thinking back on my bike shop days, there were some customers who could be shown a dozen times how to use a quick release, but the next time they came in to have me fix a flat, sure enough, it's a wing-nut again, screwed down finger-tight in the open position. Saying the quick release isn't intuitive is far too mild: some people simple won't get it no matter how many times they're shown. We even had one of those chrome Bridgestone Q/R demonstration stands, we'd show people how the things worked and make them do it, too. But they'd come back a week later using it like a wingnut. I did convince some of them to switch to threaded skewers, but others just really liked the convenience of wing nuts.... -- is Joshua Putnam http://www.phred.org/~josh/ Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers: http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Vee wrote:
Jasper Janssen wrote: On 8 Nov 2005 13:57:14 -0800, "Vee" wrote: Imagine placing this burden on a $6/hr clerk at Walmart. So they have to hire someone with actual brains for a change. How is this bad? To hire people with actual brains, they would have to offer actual pay and actual benefits. Next thing you know, these braniac employees would form a union and destroy poor, defenseless Walmart from within. You must hate America to even suggest such a thing. The more realistic solution is to stop selling bikes with QR's, as someone else suggested. Thank goodness the disc-brakes on bikes that Walmart sells don't work. Imagine the lawsuits from wheel ejection then! -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Alex Rodriguez wrote:
In article . com, says... Do you read warning labels (such as instructions on the wheel or QR lever)? Have you tried demonstrating QR operation to people? There is no way to guaranty that somebody understands QR operation without forcing them to secure the wheel right in front of you. That can be awkward, time-consuming, and sometimes patronizing. "Wheels not straight... you didn't hook the brake up right... lever's not tight enough..." Imagine placing this burden on a $6/hr clerk at Walmart. Take your pick $6/hr clerk spends 1 hour with customer or $6million lawsuit plus lawyer costs. ---------------- Alex Yes, imagine a $6/hr clerk spending an hour with a customer. Imagine how effective and pleasant that would be. Besides, how long does it take Walmart to sell a million bikes, thus exceeding the cost of the lawsuit that probably won't be avoided anyways? -Vee |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
I don't know, I've seen people tighten down quick-releases by using the lever as leverage to screw it down -- like a wrench handle, they had no idea you had to close it to tighten it down! And these were adults!! Me too. I was even on a mountain bike ride once where a bike near me was making noises - turned out the wheel wasn't even tightened. The fellow was counting on the lips to hold it on. Another reason to file them off. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
(PeteCresswell) wrote: Per : I drink _tea_. That one made my Keepers file. I have a lot of silly, off-point stuff in mine too. If it makes me laugh, it goes in the stupid file. If it makes me laugh and is relevant it goes with the other legit stuff. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
(PeteCresswell) wrote: Per Bruce Gilbert: One of my riding buddies (about 50 years of racing) had a crack up one morning. He failed to adequately tighten the QR on his rear wheel.... My point here is that these sort of accidents can and do happen. I've never had an accident. I'm still trying to train myself to check QR tension before getting on the bike. I do it sometimes and when I remember that I forgot, I stop and do it right then and there. Having said that, one day I pulled the bike off the carrier on the back of my car, got on it, and rode off: no check. First time I applied the front brake it felt funny. Turned out front skewer was *really* loose - i.e. just a little more and the wheel would have come out. As it was, the lawyer lips probably saved me. [snip] Or maybe the "lips" contributed to the accident. I have noticed that the lips keep the wheel on even when they aren't adequately tightened. That's the point of them. I don't think that's a good thing. I think you would have noticed a problem if the "lips" had been filed off. You would have arrived at your destination without your front wheel. Or more likely, you would have noticed the problem when the wheel feel off while you were loading the bike. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:00:36 GMT, SriBikeJi wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote: Having said that, one day I pulled the bike off the carrier on the back of my car, got on it, and rode off: no check. First time I applied the front brake it felt funny. Turned out front skewer was *really* loose - i.e. just a little more and the wheel would have come out. As it was, the lawyer lips probably saved me. [snip] Or maybe the "lips" contributed to the accident. I have noticed that the lips keep the wheel on even when they aren't adequately tightened. That's the point of them. I don't think that's a good thing. I think you would have noticed a problem if the "lips" had been filed off. You would have arrived at your destination without your front wheel. Or more likely, you would have noticed the problem when the wheel feel off while you were loading the bike. You're making unwarranted assumptions, to wit: that the QR was loose when the bike was loaded, and it didn't happen from vibration from the road; that the QR was fully undone while unloading, when it could have been just partially undone and gone the rest of the way while riding; that thus the wheel would in fact have fallen off without lawyer lips before he got on the bike. Jasper |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
--snip-
Why would you have to replace the forks or build new wheels to put in a solid axle? --snip-- I think he meant through-axle (like on Freeride/Downhill MTBs) SYJ |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Pete Cresswell writes:
One of my riding buddies (about 50 years of racing) had a crack up one morning. He failed to adequately tighten the QR on his rear wheel... My point here is that these sort of accidents can and do happen. I've never had an accident. I'm still trying to train myself to check QR tension before getting on the bike. I do it sometimes and when I remember that I forgot, I stop and do it right then and there. This sounds like poltergeists are at work. What sort of QR's are you using? If the QR was tight when you put the wheel in, then it ought to remain that way for a long time. Having ridden a QR equipped bicycle for a long time, I am convinced that this is not a common hazard of QR's. I've taken many 2000 mile rides in the Alps with rough roads and hard braking, never once removing the wheel on many of these where I had no flat front tire. Having said that, one day I pulled the bike off the carrier on the back of my car, got on it, and rode off: no check. First time I applied the front brake it felt funny. Turned out front skewer was *really* loose - i.e. just a little more and the wheel would have come out. As it was, the lawyer lips probably saved me. So how did it get loose and why? Besides, I have ridden substantial distances that included hard braking with the QR open with no effect. What did your wheel do that you could notice when braking? I'll never know why it was loose - user error the night before? - something about vibration on the rack?... Sounds like poltergeists. But the reason seems moot to me. The bottom line seems to be that somebody of reasonable intelligence and reasonable diligence could wind up having a wheel come out in use - all they would have to do is forget to check the wheel before riding and have it loose at that time. You would have to have lift-off from the road for the wheel to come out. I suppose that isn't so rare in off road riding but it isn't common in road rides. I still use skewers, but only because they're the only game in town without replacing all 3 of my forks and building new wheels. And why would you not want QR wheels unless you never get flat tires and always carry wrenches in your patch kit? Other than that, trading the extra 20 seconds I'd have to spend changing a front tire for knowing that wheel isn't coming loose, I'd go for through-axle in a heartbeat. That sounds a lot like elastic waist band, belt and suspenders to make sure your pants don't fall down. You make it sound like the QR is a vestige of ancient professional road racers who changed their own tubulars. I am glad to inherit the device, regardless of its origin. Jobst Brandt |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Having said that, one day I pulled the bike off the carrier on the back of my car, got on it, and rode off: no check. First time I applied the front brake it felt funny. Turned out front skewer was *really* loose - i.e. just a little more and the wheel would have come out. As it was, the lawyer lips probably saved me. I cycle about 17.000 km a year and I *NEVER* check the QR B4 I ride, though my wheels are without lawyers lips, just like everybody's wheels I know here and I never heard about anybody having trouble with QR. Greets, Derk |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Derk wrote:
Sorry, meant to say: my fork is without lawyers lips. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Derk wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote: Having said that, one day I pulled the bike off the carrier on the back of my car, got on it, and rode off: no check. First time I applied the front brake it felt funny. Turned out front skewer was *really* loose - i.e. just a little more and the wheel would have come out. As it was, the lawyer lips probably saved me. I cycle about 17.000 km a year and I *NEVER* check the QR B4 I ride, though my wheels are without lawyers lips, just like everybody's wheels I know here and I never heard about anybody having trouble with QR. Greets, Derk Lawyer lips are a major PIA IMHO. Gee I hate those things. What is the use of QR if you have a fork with lawyer lips? Every time you take out the wheel you have to unscrew the QR so when you install the wheel again the chance that you adjust the QR wrong is much greater. I don't get it. Lou -- Posted by news://news.nb.nu |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Lou Holtman wrote:
Lawyer lips are a major PIA IMHO. Gee I hate those things. The first thing I did after buying an Easton fork was that I asked my mechanic to remove these things. What is the use of QR if you have a fork with lawyer lips? It's ridiculous........That's what happens when people go to court all the time to blame others for everything that happens to them. Greetings, Derk |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Per David L. Johnson:
Why would you have to replace the forks or build new wheels to put in a solid axle? Wouldn't address the root problem, which is the cut-out receptacles in the fork. -- PeteCresswell |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Per Derk:
just like everybody's wheels I know here and I never heard about anybody having trouble with QR. Just a couple of nights ago Americas Funniest Videos showed a kid doing a wheelie, only to have the front wheel fall out. Didn't look particularly funny to me, but there it was.... -- PeteCresswell |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On 04.11.05 22:41 Vee wrote:
[...] Had my units mixed up. Sorry. 180 FARENHEIT isn't so shocking. 180 Celsius IS shocking. For water to be liquid at that temperature, you'd need 10 bar/145psi absolute pressure (9 bar/130psi gauge). Even allowing for a small increase in BP due to dissolved substances from the beans, you'd need a pretty hefty cup to contain coffee at 180 celsius. Somehow I can't imagine anyone selling coffee in pressurised containers... -- Størker Moe '97 GT Avalanche, '01 Trek Fuel 90, '96 Trek 850 Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)c2i(DOT)net WWW http://home.c2i.net/storker_moe/ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Jasper Janssen wrote: On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:00:36 GMT, SriBikeJi wrote: (PeteCresswell) wrote: Having said that, one day I pulled the bike off the carrier on the back of my car, got on it, and rode off: no check. First time I applied the front brake it felt funny. Turned out front skewer was *really* loose - i.e. just a little more and the wheel would have come out. As it was, the lawyer lips probably saved me. [snip] Or maybe the "lips" contributed to the accident. I have noticed that the lips keep the wheel on even when they aren't adequately tightened. That's the point of them. I don't think that's a good thing. I think you would have noticed a problem if the "lips" had been filed off. You would have arrived at your destination without your front wheel. Or more likely, you would have noticed the problem when the wheel feel off while you were loading the bike. You're making unwarranted assumptions, to wit: that the QR was loose when the bike was loaded, and it didn't happen from vibration from the road; that the QR was fully undone while unloading, when it could have been just partially undone and gone the rest of the way while riding; that thus the wheel would in fact have fallen off without lawyer lips before he got on the bike. Jasper I'm making some assumptions, but not unwarranted ones. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:10:34 -0800, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Just a couple of nights ago Americas Funniest Videos showed a kid doing a wheelie, only to have the front wheel fall out. Didn't look particularly funny to me, but there it was.... Not many of the Funniest Videos are actually funny, unless you're Marquis De Sade. Plus side, he was likely going pretty slow, so the come down wouldn't be too harsh. Jaspe |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On 3 Nov 2005 15:48:49 -0800, "Fritz M" wrote:
A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ Sue Wal-Mart for improper assembly or lack of instruction, but to sue them for providing a useful feature is a bad move, IMO. Something tells me they're barking up the wrong tree with their claim that the QR is inherently dangerous anyway. A few days ago I looked at the bikes in three different Wal-Marts while I was trying to find something else; in one of them, I spotted the fact that four of the five Mongoose XR200 units on the display rack had their front forks installed backwards. It was rather obvious. That model has a front disc brake...and the backwards fork put the caliper ahead of the right fork tube instead of behind the left one. It's pretty obvious that they have an assembly QC problem. I would not surprise me if some of the bikes were leaving with the QR misclamped. BTW, this is not the first time that I've seen forks on backwards on bikes in a department store; I've seen that issue with units at Target as well, and once in a while at Wal-Marts previously. Nor is it restricted to Mongoose units; other brands have been involved. This was, however, the first time that I had seen this many misassembled units in one store on a sinlgle trip. Of course, employee assembly error isn't the only potential issue. Given the number of times I've seen people fiddle with things on bikes on the racks at Wal-Mart around here, it's well within the realm of possibility that a bike could get sold with a QR that had been installed right by the store employee, and still looked tight but was actually ready to fall open due to some bozo having messed with it. That's part of the down side to selling bikes the way Wal-Mart does it; they really can't guarantee that any bike is still ready to ride when the customer takes it off the rack if they leave the bikes where any random luser can fiddle with them. Of course, if they try to use that as a defense in a suit, a smart lawyer would then ask "If you know this is a problem, why haven't you done something to make sure the bikes are secured or to reinspect them before they leave the store?" -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Quoting Werehatrack :
that the QR is inherently dangerous anyway. A few days ago I looked at the bikes in three different Wal-Marts while I was trying to find something else; in one of them, I spotted the fact that four of the five Mongoose XR200 units on the display rack had their front forks installed backwards. It was rather obvious. That model has a front disc brake...and the backwards fork put the caliper ahead of the right fork tube instead of behind the left one. Well, that'll solve the disc brake wheel ejection problem, at least. [Joke.] -- David Damerell Distortion Field! Today is First Monday, November. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On 15 Nov 2005 13:37:56 +0000 (GMT), David Damerell
wrote: Quoting Werehatrack : that the QR is inherently dangerous anyway. A few days ago I looked at the bikes in three different Wal-Marts while I was trying to find something else; in one of them, I spotted the fact that four of the five Mongoose XR200 units on the display rack had their front forks installed backwards. It was rather obvious. That model has a front disc brake...and the backwards fork put the caliper ahead of the right fork tube instead of behind the left one. Well, that'll solve the disc brake wheel ejection problem, at least. [Joke.] But what about the dreaded Rider Pulled Over The Bars By The Caliper That Tore Loose From The Mount problem? Could be trouble... -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
"David Damerell" wrote in message
... Quoting Werehatrack : that the QR is inherently dangerous anyway. A few days ago I looked at the bikes in three different Wal-Marts while I was trying to find something else; in one of them, I spotted the fact that four of the five Mongoose XR200 units on the display rack had their front forks installed backwards. It was rather obvious. That model has a front disc brake...and the backwards fork put the caliper ahead of the right fork tube instead of behind the left one. I saw Wal Mart had bikes from several manufacturers with front QR on yesterday's visit, but they mostly seemed to have a little tag attached with string, presumably saying, paraphrased "this is a dangerous thing if you don't know what you're doing". |
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