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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes.
The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ Sue Wal-Mart for improper assembly or lack of instruction, but to sue them for providing a useful feature is a bad move, IMO. RFM http://www.cyclelicio.us/ |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:48:49 -0800, Fritz M wrote:
A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ This article makes it seem as if _any_ bike with QR's is dangerous. OTOH, it's hard to see any advantage for a bicycle-shaped-toy to have QRs on it, anyway. But this claim that the kid was JRA when the wheel fell off is absurd. -- David L. Johnson __o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve _`\(,_ | death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to (_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. -- J. R. R. Tolkein |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Fritz M wrote:
A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ Sue Wal-Mart for improper assembly or lack of instruction, but to sue them for providing a useful feature is a bad move, IMO. RFM http://www.cyclelicio.us/ My suggestion of having a quick-release that does not engage to any extent until a specific (high) pressure is applied seems to have gone unnoticed. I'm waiting for my royalties! ;) -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
In article ,
"David L. Johnson" wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:48:49 -0800, Fritz M wrote: A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ This article makes it seem as if _any_ bike with QR's is dangerous. OTOH, it's hard to see any advantage for a bicycle-shaped-toy to have QRs on it, anyway. But this claim that the kid was JRA when the wheel fell off is absurd. Probably disc brake ejection. -- Michael Press The rest of the world. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
David L. Johnson wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:48:49 -0800, Fritz M wrote: A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ This article makes it seem as if _any_ bike with QR's is dangerous. OTOH, it's hard to see any advantage for a bicycle-shaped-toy to have QRs on it, anyway. But this claim that the kid was JRA when the wheel fell off is absurd. I don't know, I've seen people tighten down quick-releases by using the lever as leverage to screw it down -- like a wrench handle, they had no idea you had to close it to tighten it down! And these were adults!! -Nate |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
David L. Johnson wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:48:49 -0800, Fritz M wrote: A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ This article makes it seem as if _any_ bike with QR's is dangerous. OTOH, it's hard to see any advantage for a bicycle-shaped-toy to have QRs on it, anyway. But this claim that the kid was JRA when the wheel fell off is absurd. -- David L. Johnson __o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve _`\(,_ | death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to (_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. -- J. R. R. Tolkein Sigh.... Yeah, I too question the wisdom of Wal-Mart selling bikes with QR's. Too many clueless parents who don't know any better (and their correspondingly clueless kids) and who don't grok the concept of personal responsibility. This has to rank up there with the McDonald's hot scalding coffee on lap lawsuit. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
"damyth" wrote in
ups.com: This has to rank up there with the McDonald's hot scalding coffee on lap lawsuit. Which, when you look at it in any depth, was an entirely valid lawsuit. http://caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts But yeah, Wal-Mart has no business selling bikes with QR wheels. Hank |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Fritz M wrote:
A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ Sue Wal-Mart for improper assembly or lack of instruction, but to sue them for providing a useful feature is a bad move, IMO. RFM http://www.cyclelicio.us/ From shokbikes.org: "Since the accident, Virginia’s had two heart attacks and a knee replacement. Worrying about her son with his post-accident issues has been difficult. She believes that parents and their children should be made aware of the problems with these bikes, and that ultimately the companies and manufacturers should be responsible for the products they distribute and sell." If those people are not able to use a quick release, wal-mart should just produce one-piece fork-wheels. So when they puncture they replace the whole bike and they are happy. Anyway when you read those stories you notice they don't even know the difference between wheel and tire. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Obviously, the quick release is a Darwinian evolutionary mechanism.
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
"Francesco Devittori" frenkatfrenkdtcm wrote in message ... Fritz M wrote: A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ Sue Wal-Mart for improper assembly or lack of instruction, but to sue them for providing a useful feature is a bad move, IMO. RFM http://www.cyclelicio.us/ From shokbikes.org: "Since the accident, Virginia’s had two heart attacks and a knee replacement. Worrying about her son with his post-accident issues has been difficult. She believes that parents and their children should be made aware of the problems with these bikes, and that ultimately the companies and manufacturers should be responsible for the products they distribute and sell." If those people are not able to use a quick release, wal-mart should just produce one-piece fork-wheels. So when they puncture they replace the whole bike and they are happy. Anyway when you read those stories you notice they don't even know the difference between wheel and tire. One of my riding buddies (about 50 years of racing) had a crack up one morning. He failed to adequately tighten the QR on his rear wheel. Turned out of the parking lot, stood up to accelerate and the wheel shifted. The wheel pressed the tire against the chainstay and brake block. He went flying off the front performing a perfect UCI style aerial roll before a dentist-pleasing face plant. The plastic surgeon who rides with us felt an actual surge in his wallet at the moment of impact. My point here is that these sort of accidents can and do happen. People just get sloppy or get distracted when they do stuff on their bikes, or cars for that matter. But, to blame everything on the manufacturer is absurd... until you speak to a lawyer. Then it becomes a matter of following the money to try getting some. That is their business, like it or not. It is a simple formula: something happened, follow the money, get some of it.... See, everything in life is clearly explained in this newsgroup if you read it long enough! Bruce |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Hank Wirtz wrote:
Which, when you look at it in any depth, was an entirely valid lawsuit. http://caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts But yeah, Wal-Mart has no business selling bikes with QR wheels. No it wasn't valid in any sense aside from some plaintiff bar attorneys wanting to defend what isn't defensible. Just because a bunch of parasitic lawyers say something is justified doesn't make it so. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On 3 Nov 2005 15:48:49 -0800, "Fritz M" wrote:
A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ Sue Wal-Mart for improper assembly or lack of instruction, but to sue them for providing a useful feature is a bad move, IMO. These appear to *all* involve a particular brand (NEXT) and type of bike, which has been *recalled* because of defective quick releases. That has nothing to do with QRs in general, it's just these ones that suck. Jasper |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Hank Wirtz wrote: Huh? Serving something that can cause THIRD degree burns from a drive- through window isn't reckless? Heh. I'm going to really frighten you, Hank. Pay attention: I drink _tea_. Yes! That horribly risky beverage that says, on the teabag wrapper, to pour BOILING water into the cup! A full, rolling boil! And yes, I've gotten tea at fast food joints! Now, I'll admit I generally make and drink only one cup at a time, so my riskiness has its limits. But I've heard of little old ladies and little girls having entire _parties_ where they make POTS of the stuff! What's worse, they actually pre-heat the pots with boiling water (True! Look it up!) before they add fresh boiling water to make the tea. Why, each teapot is a veritable hot-water bomb! And these risk-takers don't even have heat-proof frilly white dresses! The large, floppy hats they wear provide almost no protection either. Now, for me, there are limits. I'm not into the parties. I'm definitely not going to wear the risky, frilly white dresses they use. ;-) And a full _pot_ of boiling, bubbling water is a little scary even for me! But I stand up for their right to risk their own... um, laps. Admittedly, I'm a little worried about calling attention to the thrills of reckless tea drinking. There's bound to be some safety organization that'll want to outlaw it. Or at least mandate asbestos aprons. But meanwhile, we tea drinkers _revel_ in the risk. "Too hot for human consumption?" HAH! If it's too hot, you're too old! In fact, I think I'll go have a cup now! - Frank Krygowski |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
"Llatikcuf" wrote
I don't know, I've seen people tighten down quick-releases by using the lever as leverage to screw it down -- like a wrench handle, they had no idea you had to close it to tighten it down! And these were adults!! -Nate I remember my father (college educated, reasonably high paying government job) trying to do that to my Peugeot PX-10. I've also seen bikes sold by stores other than LBSs with the quick-release tightened down that way. A quick release isn't completely self-explanatory, especially now that the lawyer lips force you to loosen the adjusting barrel to get it out of the front dropouts. -- mark |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
"Fritz M" wrote ...
A mom in West Virginia is suing Wal-Mart for selling defective bikes. The defect? Quick release front wheels. More info at http://www.shokbikes.org/ Sue Wal-Mart for improper assembly or lack of instruction, but to sue them for providing a useful feature is a bad move, IMO. RFM As long as Wal-Mart pays its drones piece rate to assemble its crappy bicycles, the bikes are going to be badly assembled and unsafe to ride. -- mark |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
bcrow opined:
Obviously, the quick release is a Darwinian evolutionary mechanism. Hah! Intelligent design is the obvious origin as Tullio Campagnolo originated the QR. D'ohBoy "It isn't global warming - it's intelligent defrosting!" |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Per Hank Wirtz:
Huh? Serving something that can cause THIRD degree burns from a drive- through window isn't reckless? Continuing to do so after HUNDREDS of out- of-court settlements for other people with second and third degree burns borders on criminal negligence. But don't I have to weigh that up against getting lukewarm coffee for the rest of my life? -- PeteCresswell |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Per Bruce Gilbert:
One of my riding buddies (about 50 years of racing) had a crack up one morning. He failed to adequately tighten the QR on his rear wheel.... My point here is that these sort of accidents can and do happen. I've never had an accident. I'm still trying to train myself to check QR tension before getting on the bike. I do it sometimes and when I remember that I forgot, I stop and do it right then and there. Having said that, one day I pulled the bike off the carrier on the back of my car, got on it, and rode off: no check. First time I applied the front brake it felt funny. Turned out front skewer was *really* loose - i.e. just a little more and the wheel would have come out. As it was, the lawyer lips probably saved me. I'll never know why it was loose - user error the night before? - something about vibration on the rack?.... But the reason seems moot to me. The bottom line seems to be that somebody of reasonable intelligence and reasonable diligence could wind up having a wheel come out in use - all they would have to do is forget to check the wheel before riding and have it loose at that time. I still use skewers, but only because they're the only game in town without replacing all 3 of my forks and building new wheels. Other than that, trading the extra 20 seconds I'd have to spend changing a front tire for knowing that wheel isn't coming loose, I'd go for through-axle in a heartbeat. -- PeteCresswell |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Paul Cassel wrote:
Hank Wirtz wrote: Which, when you look at it in any depth, was an entirely valid lawsuit. http://caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts But yeah, Wal-Mart has no business selling bikes with QR wheels. No it wasn't valid in any sense aside from some plaintiff bar attorneys wanting to defend what isn't defensible. Just because a bunch of parasitic lawyers say something is justified doesn't make it so. Did you check out the link? I was inclined to agree with you until I read that, prior to this lawsuit, McDonald's kept their coffee at 180+ degrees. That's a different kind of "hot" than ordinary coffee or your tea. -Vee |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Vee wrote: Did you check out the link? I was inclined to agree with you until I read that, prior to this lawsuit, McDonald's kept their coffee at 180+ degrees. That's a different kind of "hot" than ordinary coffee or your tea. Tea is supposed to be made with boiling water. At sea level, that's 212 degrees Fahrenheit. Where is the horror and anguish about tea drinkers? - Frank Krygowski |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
wrote: Vee wrote: Did you check out the link? I was inclined to agree with you until I read that, prior to this lawsuit, McDonald's kept their coffee at 180+ degrees. That's a different kind of "hot" than ordinary coffee or your tea. Tea is supposed to be made with boiling water. At sea level, that's 212 degrees Fahrenheit. Where is the horror and anguish about tea drinkers? And coffee should be brewed at just over 200 deg F at sea level. *HOT* coffee and tea are supposed to be hot. It is stupidity, and crass lawyers, who make people think that tepid is OK. If a place selling coffee is selling something below 180F, they are selling warm colored water, not coffee. - rick |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Rick wrote: wrote: Vee wrote: Did you check out the link? I was inclined to agree with you until I read that, prior to this lawsuit, McDonald's kept their coffee at 180+ degrees. That's a different kind of "hot" than ordinary coffee or your tea. Tea is supposed to be made with boiling water. At sea level, that's 212 degrees Fahrenheit. Where is the horror and anguish about tea drinkers? And coffee should be brewed at just over 200 deg F at sea level. *HOT* coffee and tea are supposed to be hot. It is stupidity, and crass lawyers, who make people think that tepid is OK. If a place selling coffee is selling something below 180F, they are selling warm colored water, not coffee. - rick Had my units mixed up. Sorry. 180 FARENHEIT isn't so shocking. -Vee |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Per Vee:
Did you check out the link? I was inclined to agree with you until I read that, prior to this lawsuit, McDonald's kept their coffee at 180+ degrees. That's a different kind of "hot" than ordinary coffee or your tea. When I was playing around with grinding my own, I read that the optimal temp at brewing time was 170. To me, at least, a beeeeeg diff between coffee and tea is that tea can be enjoyed at any temp from quite hot to room temp. OTOH, coffee that's not hot enough tastes awful. Coffee doesn't have to be boiling - in fact if it's too hot, it doesn't taste as full; but once it hits that little paper or Styrofoam cup it starts cooling pretty fast and for me the hotter it is when it hits the cup, the longer I have before it's undrinkable. -- PeteCresswell |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:59:03 -0800, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I still use skewers, but only because they're the only game in town without replacing all 3 of my forks and building new wheels. Why would you have to replace the forks or build new wheels to put in a solid axle? If you have cup&cone bearings, you can easily replace the axle with a solid one, from any bike shop for maybe $10 -- for $10 more I bet they'd install it. If you have some sort of cartridge bearing hub, it might take a bit more money, and searching (depending on brand). -- David L. Johnson __o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how. _`\(,_ | (_)/ (_) | |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 01:33:23 -0600, Hank Wirtz wrote:
"damyth" wrote in ups.com: This has to rank up there with the McDonald's hot scalding coffee on lap lawsuit. Which, when you look at it in any depth, was an entirely valid lawsuit. http://caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts But yeah, Wal-Mart has no business selling bikes with QR wheels. Nor did McD's have any business selling coffee that hot -- which may have been the point. -- David L. Johnson __o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand _`\(,_ | mathematics. (_)/ (_) | |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Or you could replace the QR skewers with allen-keyed skewers. A lot of
people around here do that to prevent casual theft of wheels, plus you still don't need to carry a wrench. David L. Johnson wrote: Why would you have to replace the forks or build new wheels to put in a solid axle? If you have cup&cone bearings, you can easily replace the axle with a solid one, from any bike shop for maybe $10 -- for $10 more I bet they'd install it. If you have some sort of cartridge bearing hub, it might take a bit more money, and searching (depending on brand). I still use skewers, but only because they're the only game in town without replacing all 3 of my forks and building new wheels. |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
I don't know why I formatted that post upside down.
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Per Jacobe Hazzard:
Or you could replace the QR skewers with allen-keyed skewers. A lot of people around here do that to prevent casual theft of wheels, plus you still don't need to carry a wrench. That wouldn't satisfy my particular paranoia. My concern is the fastener coming loose enough for the wheel to eject past the lawyer lips. The beauty of through-axle to me is that it's fault-tolerant. i.e. the screws can be *really* loose and it still stays in place. -- PeteCresswell |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
(PeteCresswell) wrote: That wouldn't satisfy my particular paranoia. My concern is the fastener coming loose enough for the wheel to eject past the lawyer lips. The beauty of through-axle to me is that it's fault-tolerant. i.e. the screws can be *really* loose and it still stays in place. -- PeteCresswell Seems to me all quick release skewers should come with some kind of locking mechanism that would prevent loosening after it was fastened. Even if the skewer were tightened just a little it would not unscrew, never getting loose enough to bypass the lawyer lips. -Nate |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:47:38 -0800, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Per Jacobe Hazzard: Or you could replace the QR skewers with allen-keyed skewers. A lot of people around here do that to prevent casual theft of wheels, plus you still don't need to carry a wrench. That wouldn't satisfy my particular paranoia. My concern is the fastener coming loose enough for the wheel to eject past the lawyer lips. The beauty of through-axle to me is that it's fault-tolerant. i.e. the screws can be *really* loose and it still stays in place. Also, allen-skewers lack visual indication that they are loose, which regular skewers do show at even the most casual glance (at least for the main QR motion). Jasper |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
On 5 Nov 2005 13:05:38 -0800, "Llatikcuf" wrote:
Seems to me all quick release skewers should come with some kind of locking mechanism that would prevent loosening after it was fastened. Even if the skewer were tightened just a little it would not unscrew, never getting loose enough to bypass the lawyer lips. A washer with *real* interlocking serrations (not the puny .1 mm deep crap on QRs now) that on the other side fits in the dropout slot so it can't rotate would seem to be the obvious answer. If you make left and right w/ frex 39 and 40 serrations, there is not even the minor reduction in adjustability. Jasper |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Jasper Janssen wrote:
On 5 Nov 2005 13:05:38 -0800, "Llatikcuf" wrote: Seems to me all quick release skewers should come with some kind of locking mechanism that would prevent loosening after it was fastened. Even if the skewer were tightened just a little it would not unscrew, never getting loose enough to bypass the lawyer lips. A washer with *real* interlocking serrations (not the puny .1 mm deep crap on QRs now) that on the other side fits in the dropout slot so it can't rotate would seem to be the obvious answer. If you make left and right w/ frex 39 and 40 serrations, there is not even the minor reduction in adjustability. Jasper In addition, people who do not know how to use QRs wouldn't be able to physically wingnut the skewer closed because the serrations would prevent tightness. -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
If tightened properly, the cam mechanism keeps the QR closed. You have to
increase the tension to get over the cam's high spot before you can release the wheel. This is true I'm sure you could feel the front wheel moving around. Yes I'm sure you could. We were talking about kids who buy their bikes at walmart.... You or I and the story is different. -Nate |
bigger lawyer lips on the way?
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bigger lawyer lips on the way?
Alex Rodriguez wrote:
In article .com, says... Yes I'm sure you could. We were talking about kids who buy their bikes at walmart.... You or I and the story is different. Agreed. The staff should be requred to leave instructions on the wheel and show the parents how to operate the QR before they walk out of the store. Make each parent sign a statement saying they were instructed in the proper use of a QR would be a good idea. ------------- Alex Do you read warning labels (such as instructions on the wheel or QR lever)? Have you tried demonstrating QR operation to people? There is no way to guaranty that somebody understands QR operation without forcing them to secure the wheel right in front of you. That can be awkward, time-consuming, and sometimes patronizing. "Wheels not straight... you didn't hook the brake up right... lever's not tight enough..." Imagine placing this burden on a $6/hr clerk at Walmart. -Vee |
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