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-   -   Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=255237)

Bod[_5_] December 18th 17 10:59 AM

Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them
 
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area will
stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the 13
new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves her
dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found that
the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in seven out
of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017 by Bath and
North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!

--
Bod

Ian Jackson[_7_] December 18th 17 11:38 AM

Reducing speed to 20mph created more deaths than injuries but council cant afford to scrap them
 
In message , Bod
writes
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.
*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in
the 13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
loves her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has
found that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up
in seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May
2017 by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.
*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking
and crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are
safer. Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has
admitted there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...d-deaths-injur
ies-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare

The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!

Surely there are a couple of Poles or Romanians who will do the job for
a tiny fraction of £800,000?
--
Ian

Bod[_5_] December 18th 17 11:42 AM

Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them
 
On 18/12/2017 10:38, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Bod
writes
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will* stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.
* *Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in
the 13* new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
loves her* dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has
found that* the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone
up in seven out* of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in
May 2017 by Bath and* North East Somerset Council, says this is a
national trend.
* *The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...d-deaths-injur
ies-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare

The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!

Surely there are a couple of Poles or Romanians who will do the job for
a tiny fraction of £800,000?

A lot of truth in your answer.

--
Bod

Ian Jackson[_7_] December 18th 17 01:32 PM

Reducing speed to 20mph created more deaths than injuries but council cant afford to scrap them
 
In message , James Wilkinson Sword
writes
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:59:42 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area will
stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the 13
new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves her
dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found that
the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in seven out
of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017 by Bath and
North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.


http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...ed-deaths-inju
ries-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare

The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


It's not just the signs, you have to get 50 people to sign off health
and softy agreements to make sure the workers are safe while removing
them from those er.... slow safe areas.

Indeed. I often see minor road-side road works where putting the warning
signs and removing them probably took a lot longer than the work itself.
--
Ian

Brian Reay December 18th 17 03:03 PM

Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them
 
On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

**Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017
by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

**The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


The findings won't stop 'pressure groups' demanding more such zones or
councils introducing them- leading to more unnecessary injuries and deaths.

Obviously there are instances of bad driving- including of course
driving under the influence etc.- and no one is suggesting they
shouldn't be dealt with. However, introducing measures which are not
only known to fail but be harmful is more than ridiculous.

Nightjar December 18th 17 06:36 PM

Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them
 
On 18-Dec-17 9:59 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

**Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017
by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

**The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed
simply by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A
20mph zone has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of
traffic calming measures. Those would also need to be removed and the
roads restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.

--
--

Colin Bignell

Simon Jester December 18th 17 07:02 PM

Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them
 
On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 5:36:34 PM UTC, Nightjar wrote:
On 18-Dec-17 9:59 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

**Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017
by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend..

**The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed
simply by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A
20mph zone has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of
traffic calming measures. Those would also need to be removed and the
roads restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.

--
--

Colin Bignell


Holy Cow, talk about a blast from the past.
Have you heard anything from Huge Davies or Steve Firth recently?


tim... December 18th 17 07:12 PM

Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them
 


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 18-Dec-17 9:59 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area will
stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the 13
new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves her
dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found that
the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in seven out
of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017 by Bath and
North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare

The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed
simply by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A
20mph zone has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of
traffic calming measures. Those would also need to be removed and the
roads restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.


but do they absolutely need to be?

the road outside my estate has speed calming humps, but the speed limit is
still 30 mph

tim




soup[_8_] December 18th 17 08:05 PM

Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them
 
On 18/12/2017 10:38, Ian Jackson wrote:
Bod wrote
Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will* stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...d-deaths-injur
ies-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


Surely there are a couple of Poles or Romanians who will do the job for
a tiny fraction of £800,000?



Sorry, has to be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dB4YnLSsE

Nightjar December 18th 17 08:28 PM

Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them
 
On 18-Dec-17 6:12 PM, tim... wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

....
They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed
simply by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs.
A 20mph zone has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots
of traffic calming measures. Those would also need to be removed and
the roads restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.


but do they absolutely need to be?

the road outside my estate has speed calming humps, but the speed limit
is still 30 mph


Some measures are not considered to be effective in a 30mph limit and
would probably need to be removed. If humps are retained, they would
need lit warning signs (not required in a 20mph zone) and appropriate
road markings (also not a requirement in a 20mph zone) to be added.


--
--

Colin Bignell


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