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Does anything dissolve paint thinner
I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain.
Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 12:38:12 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ Solvents to remove solvents? Is that a thing? If he chooses to use alcohol, what should he use to remove that? Is it solvent infinite regress? And then there is Plan B: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6mzE5lQ0w He has an accent. Believe him. -- Jay Beattie. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
AK wrote:
I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy Time. Time “dissolves” paint thinner. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:48:33 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 12:38:12 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ Solvents to remove solvents? Is that a thing? If he chooses to use alcohol, what should he use to remove that? Is it solvent infinite regress? And then there is Plan B: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6mzE5lQ0w He has an accent. Believe him. -- Jay Beattie. Thanks for the video. It is very helpful. Andy I did find a homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 8:51:20 PM UTC+2, AK wrote:
I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy Stop doing that. No chain is worth using that filthy stuff. Lou |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 You must never have used IPA on grease. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ You must never have used IPA on grease. Actually, I have. It works well at dissolving hydrocarbon based non-polar greases. It's also good for removing silicon grease from CPU's and heat sinks. Not so good as a pre-wash for removing grease stains. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Alcohol is an organic solvent because it contains carbon linked to hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen (except for carbonates, cyanides, carbides, etc). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol ...it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid, especially for dissolving oils isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/ IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything else) into itself, so you can wipe it away. Degreaser is a surfactant, so it allows the grease/oil to form microscopic globules in the water, which you then wash or wipe away. Its essentially concentrated soap. Both will do the same job, but degreaser works better at stripping large amounts of gunk off drivechains as the degreaser and oil form an emulsion, which you can then wash away. If you put IPA in a chain cleaner youd just be diluting the oil and it still wouldnt wash off. IPA works best for removing small amounts of gunk, or where you dont want to leave a trace of soap/water afterwards for example cleaning calipers and levers after bleeding brakes, or sloshing around in suspension forks to remove the last traces of the old oil and any dirt. By the way, you're welcome. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 12:48:33 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 12:38:12 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ Solvents to remove solvents? Is that a thing? If he chooses to use alcohol, what should he use to remove that? Is it solvent infinite regress? And then there is Plan B: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6mzE5lQ0w He has an accent. Believe him. -- Jay Beattie. I often remove alcohol - from the bottle and into a nice glass. Cabernet is good Bordeaux as well. But I think that he has the idea that when he cuts the grease he needs to wash the solvent off in some manner with all of that sludge. And the answer is a very strong soap and hot water. Use rubber gloves since most dishwashing detergent is designed to cut all oil and will take all of the oils out of your skin and fingernails. In automotive supply stores they have an extremely strong detergent that is in a blue bottle. Rather than using paint thinner on a chain, you put about a cup full of that stuff in a 4 sup measuring cup and put your dirty chain in there and let it sit for 15 minutes and then wash it off with a hose into the gutter. DO NOT let that stuff touch your hands since it makes dishwashing detergent look like spring water. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy Most paint thinners evaporate. i,.e. dry. Which is, of course, how they work a "paint thinner" :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 1:51:20 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:
I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy Odorless Mineral Spirits have the least impurities. So use it instead. https://www.bobvila.com/articles/min...paint-thinner/ |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On 9/2/2019 1:51 PM, AK wrote:
I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy Automotive acrylic lacquer thinner is highly volatile and evaporates leaving no residue. If you have gunk remaining you haven't diluted the oil/gunk enough. Lacquer thinner is also highly flammable so bear that in mind regarding ventilation, ignition sources and disposal of wipers. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On 9/2/2019 4:05 PM, AK wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 You must never have used IPA on grease. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Did you know that Jeff wrote about Iso Propyl Alcohol? = IPA -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/2/2019 4:05 PM, AK wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 You must never have used IPA on grease. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Did you know that Jeff wrote about Iso Propyl Alcohol? = IPA I used an IPA on Friday to patch 30 (count 'em) tubes from my heap of un-patched tubes. Open bottle, pour in glass, drink and patch tubes. It also helps to watch an action movie. -- Jay Beattie. I know that tastes vary, but I would rather clean my chain with IPA than drink the stuff. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2019 7:08 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/2/2019 4:05 PM, AK wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 You must never have used IPA on grease. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Did you know that Jeff wrote about Iso Propyl Alcohol? = IPA I used an IPA on Friday to patch 30 (count 'em) tubes from my heap of un-patched tubes. Open bottle, pour in glass, drink and patch tubes. It also helps to watch an action movie. -- Jay Beattie. This evening, I'm enjoying some ethanol with juniper berries mixed with a fizzy quinine solution and a twist of lime. Last summer evening and it's just beautiful. And the quinine protects against yellow fever and such. My preference of brands is Bombay Saphire. Though this is a bourbon night for me. Vacation over and back to work tomorrow. To remain on topic, either works while I’m running my chain through a degreaser. -- duane |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 17:08:43 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: Did you know that Jeff wrote about Iso Propyl Alcohol? = IPA Clarification: I didn't mean India Pale Ale: http://allaboutbeer.com/beer_style/india-pale-ale/ However, the mistake is forgivable. I don't drink booze and had no idea what IPA beer was until I looked it up. I used an IPA on Friday to patch 30 (count 'em) tubes from my heap of un-patched tubes. Open bottle, pour in glass, drink and patch tubes. It also helps to watch an action movie. -- Jay Beattie. It's not strong enough to be used for inner tube surface preparation, so I'll assume that you drank it. 30 tubes? If that's a years supply, that would be one blowout every 12 days. Assuming your roads aren't covered with broken glass, goat heads, or roofing nails, I would suspect that you purchased your inner tubes from the same vendor that supplied me with my collection of perforated inner tubes. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:49:25 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ You must never have used IPA on grease. Actually, I have. It works well at dissolving hydrocarbon based non-polar greases. It's also good for removing silicon grease from CPU's and heat sinks. Not so good as a pre-wash for removing grease stains. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Alcohol is an organic solvent because it contains carbon linked to hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen (except for carbonates, cyanides, carbides, etc). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol ...it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid, especially for dissolving oils isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/ IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything else) into itself, so you can wipe it away. Degreaser is a surfactant, so it allows the grease/oil to form microscopic globules in the water, which you then wash or wipe away. It’s essentially concentrated soap. Both will do the same job, but degreaser works better at stripping large amounts of gunk off drivechains as the degreaser and oil form an emulsion, which you can then wash away. If you put IPA in a chain cleaner you’d just be diluting the oil and it still wouldn’t wash off. IPA works best for removing small amounts of gunk, or where you don’t want to leave a trace of soap/water afterwards for example cleaning calipers and levers after bleeding brakes, or sloshing around in suspension forks to remove the last traces of the old oil and any dirt. By the way, you're welcome. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/ IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything else) into itself, so you can wipe it away. I am a retired chemist with over 35 years of experience. And I had to dissolve many substances in order to run analyses and clean equipment. You can say all you want, but IPA NEVER HAS and NEVER WILL dissolve oils and greases. Andy |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 6:52:32 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2019 1:51 PM, AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy p.s. Any particular reason you don't use auto disc brake cleaner? It's cheap and available everywhere which is why it's a popular cleaning agent. Ours is a mix of alcohol and acetone but I'm sure other similar versions exist. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 6:10:48 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 17:08:43 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: Did you know that Jeff wrote about Iso Propyl Alcohol? = IPA Clarification: I didn't mean India Pale Ale: http://allaboutbeer.com/beer_style/india-pale-ale/ However, the mistake is forgivable. I don't drink booze and had no idea what IPA beer was until I looked it up. I used an IPA on Friday to patch 30 (count 'em) tubes from my heap of un-patched tubes. Open bottle, pour in glass, drink and patch tubes. It also helps to watch an action movie. -- Jay Beattie. It's not strong enough to be used for inner tube surface preparation, so I'll assume that you drank it. 30 tubes? If that's a years supply, that would be one blowout every 12 days. Assuming your roads aren't covered with broken glass, goat heads, or roofing nails, I would suspect that you purchased your inner tubes from the same vendor that supplied me with my collection of perforated inner tubes. They had been accumulating for quite a while and are from a herd of bikes. With that said, flats happen a lot during the winter. Only one snake bite, and everything else was a single hole. Four of those tubes didn't stay inflated after patching and have other tiny holes that need attention. Tube brands are all over the board -- a lot of Conti, some Kenda, Specialized and a bunch of no-names from Nashbar or Performance. Also a mix of thick and thin. Many are old and have other patches. -- Jay Beattie. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
AK wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 6:52:32 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 9/2/2019 1:51 PM, AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy p.s. Any particular reason you don't use auto disc brake cleaner? It's cheap and available everywhere which is why it's a popular cleaning agent. Ours is a mix of alcohol and acetone but I'm sure other similar versions exist. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well, just not put on as much of a show. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 18:28:52 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:49:25 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: You must never have used IPA on grease. Actually, I have. It works well at dissolving hydrocarbon based non-polar greases. It's also good for removing silicon grease from CPU's and heat sinks. Not so good as a pre-wash for removing grease stains. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Alcohol is an organic solvent because it contains carbon linked to hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen (except for carbonates, cyanides, carbides, etc). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol ...it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid, especially for dissolving oils isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/ IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything else) into itself, so you can wipe it away. Degreaser is a surfactant, so it allows the grease/oil to form microscopic globules in the water, which you then wash or wipe away. Its essentially concentrated soap. Both will do the same job, but degreaser works better at stripping large amounts of gunk off drivechains as the degreaser and oil form an emulsion, which you can then wash away. If you put IPA in a chain cleaner youd just be diluting the oil and it still wouldnt wash off. IPA works best for removing small amounts of gunk, or where you dont want to leave a trace of soap/water afterwards for example cleaning calipers and levers after bleeding brakes, or sloshing around in suspension forks to remove the last traces of the old oil and any dirt. By the way, you're welcome. isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/ IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything else) into itself, so you can wipe it away. I am a retired chemist with over 35 years of experience. And I had to dissolve many substances in order to run analyses and clean equipment. You can say all you want, but IPA NEVER HAS and NEVER WILL dissolve oils and greases. Andy Well, I guess I'll just have to try it. Found a tiny 50 ml beaker and added 10 ml of 91% IPA. I then dumped in a dime size blob of whatever greases I could find around the house. I then stirred the solution lightly (no stirring rod). If the grease dissolved into the IPA, then IPA can be used as a solvent to clean it. If it remained mostly intact, it's insoluble. After that, I found a white pine board, and ground a dime size spot of grease into the board with my thumb. I then wiped it clean with a paper towel. In all cases, there was some residue embedded in the wood. I then used a different paper towel to try and clean off the residue. If IPA was able to clean the embedded grease, then I would consider IPA a solvent. Soluble? Pine board Lithium white grease. Yes Yes 10-30wt engine oil. No Somewhat WD-40 No No 3-in-one oil. Yes Yes Unlabelled gear lube. Somewhat Yes Moly disulfide grease. No No Al2O3 thermal goo. Yes Most but not all LPS3 (wax film lube). Yes Yes Mystery black grease gun. Yes Most but not all The results showing "most but not all" seem to have left a solid particle residue in the grain of the wood which I could not remove with IPA and scrubbing. The greasy carrier was removed, but not the solid particles. Sorry, no photos because I didn't want to get grease all over my smartphone or camera. Maybe if I can dig up an accomplice, I can make a YouTube video and become famous. If I wanted to do it correctly, I would use a viscosity tester (tilting glass slide). Or, I could stir more vigorously, and use a centrifuge to see if the grease and IPA could be separated. If I feel ambitious or someone has a better idea, I can easily re-run the tests and add a few more greases that are more likely to be found on a bicycle chain. I can't conclude anything either way with what I'll readily admit are two rather lousy tests. Offhand, it would seem that some greases and oils will not dissolve in IPA, while others will to varying degrees. Meanwhile, I'll burn some time pondering all the web sites recommending IPA for grease and stain removal: https://www.google.com/search?q=alcohol+grease+removal Drivel: One thing that 91% IPA is good for is removing the sticky depolymerized rubber goo (paint) from the surface of computer keyboards, mice, toys, etc. (Thank you Logitech). I've had to recycle or toss far too much of this stuff simply because I couldn't remove the sticky goo. IPA works, but does require some heavy duty scrubbing. What's left is bare plastic, but that's better than dealing with the sticky rubberish mess. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 18:35:25 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 6:52:32 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 9/2/2019 1:51 PM, AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy p.s. Any particular reason you don't use auto disc brake cleaner? It's cheap and available everywhere which is why it's a popular cleaning agent. Ours is a mix of alcohol and acetone but I'm sure other similar versions exist. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap I sort of think there is one thing you chain washers might want to think about. Your freshly washed and cleaned chains have no lubrication at all :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote: AK wrote: I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well, just not put on as much of a show. The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam, where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic cleaner. "homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution" http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786 1) plain old white vinegar 2) salt 3) baking soda 4) lemonshine 5) citric acid 6) lemon juice 7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe. "How to make a Volcano" http://www.sciencefun.org/kidszone/experiments/how-to-make-a-volcano/ "Equation for the Reaction Between Baking Soda and Vinegar" https://www.thoughtco.com/equation-for-the-reaction-of-baking-soda-and-vinegar-604043 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 10:06:02 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 18:28:52 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:49:25 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: You must never have used IPA on grease. Actually, I have. It works well at dissolving hydrocarbon based non-polar greases. It's also good for removing silicon grease from CPU's and heat sinks. Not so good as a pre-wash for removing grease stains. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Alcohol is an organic solvent because it contains carbon linked to hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen (except for carbonates, cyanides, carbides, etc). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol ...it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid, especially for dissolving oils isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/ IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything else) into itself, so you can wipe it away. Degreaser is a surfactant, so it allows the grease/oil to form microscopic globules in the water, which you then wash or wipe away. It’s essentially concentrated soap. Both will do the same job, but degreaser works better at stripping large amounts of gunk off drivechains as the degreaser and oil form an emulsion, which you can then wash away. If you put IPA in a chain cleaner you’d just be diluting the oil and it still wouldn’t wash off. IPA works best for removing small amounts of gunk, or where you don’t want to leave a trace of soap/water afterwards for example cleaning calipers and levers after bleeding brakes, or sloshing around in suspension forks to remove the last traces of the old oil and any dirt. By the way, you're welcome. isopropyl alcohol vs degreaser https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/isopropyl-alcohol-vs-degreaser/ IPA is a solvent, it dissolves grease (and water, and anything else) into itself, so you can wipe it away. I am a retired chemist with over 35 years of experience. And I had to dissolve many substances in order to run analyses and clean equipment. You can say all you want, but IPA NEVER HAS and NEVER WILL dissolve oils and greases. Andy Well, I guess I'll just have to try it. Found a tiny 50 ml beaker and added 10 ml of 91% IPA. I then dumped in a dime size blob of whatever greases I could find around the house. I then stirred the solution lightly (no stirring rod). If the grease dissolved into the IPA, then IPA can be used as a solvent to clean it. If it remained mostly intact, it's insoluble. After that, I found a white pine board, and ground a dime size spot of grease into the board with my thumb. I then wiped it clean with a paper towel. In all cases, there was some residue embedded in the wood. I then used a different paper towel to try and clean off the residue. If IPA was able to clean the embedded grease, then I would consider IPA a solvent. Soluble? Pine board Lithium white grease. Yes Yes 10-30wt engine oil. No Somewhat WD-40 No No 3-in-one oil. Yes Yes Unlabelled gear lube. Somewhat Yes Moly disulfide grease. No No Al2O3 thermal goo. Yes Most but not all LPS3 (wax film lube). Yes Yes Mystery black grease gun. Yes Most but not all The results showing "most but not all" seem to have left a solid particle residue in the grain of the wood which I could not remove with IPA and scrubbing. The greasy carrier was removed, but not the solid particles. Sorry, no photos because I didn't want to get grease all over my smartphone or camera. Maybe if I can dig up an accomplice, I can make a YouTube video and become famous. If I wanted to do it correctly, I would use a viscosity tester (tilting glass slide). Or, I could stir more vigorously, and use a centrifuge to see if the grease and IPA could be separated. If I feel ambitious or someone has a better idea, I can easily re-run the tests and add a few more greases that are more likely to be found on a bicycle chain. I can't conclude anything either way with what I'll readily admit are two rather lousy tests. Offhand, it would seem that some greases and oils will not dissolve in IPA, while others will to varying degrees. Meanwhile, I'll burn some time pondering all the web sites recommending IPA for grease and stain removal: https://www.google.com/search?q=alcohol+grease+removal Drivel: One thing that 91% IPA is good for is removing the sticky depolymerized rubber goo (paint) from the surface of computer keyboards, mice, toys, etc. (Thank you Logitech). I've had to recycle or toss far too much of this stuff simply because I couldn't remove the sticky goo. IPA works, but does require some heavy duty scrubbing. What's left is bare plastic, but that's better than dealing with the sticky rubberish mess. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 I am not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to share what I have learned. You used good test methods. Your comment about few more greases that are more likely to be found on a bicycle chain. got me very interested. I recently had my local bike shop install a new chain. I did not use any chain lubricant. Within less than a week, my chain had a coating of grease. So I thought, where did that grease come from? I understand where the dirt comes from. I remembered that I pretty much always ride at least once a week through water puddles or rain. So I think that water + rain = grease. For a while I used 70% isopropyl alcohol to pull out the water when I wanted to pull the water out of something so it would dry quickly. I later learned that 90% IPA was much more efficient. What do you think? Andy |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 10:13:11 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 18:35:25 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 6:52:32 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 9/2/2019 1:51 PM, AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Thanks, Andy p.s. Any particular reason you don't use auto disc brake cleaner? It's cheap and available everywhere which is why it's a popular cleaning agent. Ours is a mix of alcohol and acetone but I'm sure other similar versions exist. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap I sort of think there is one thing you chain washers might want to think about. Your freshly washed and cleaned chains have no lubrication at all :-) -- Cheers, John B. John, I use White Lightning Easy Lube after I clean my chain. It dries to the touch after use. Andy |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 10:19:29 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: AK wrote: I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well, just not put on as much of a show. The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam, where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic cleaner. "homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution" http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786 1) plain old white vinegar 2) salt 3) baking soda 4) lemonshine 5) citric acid 6) lemon juice 7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe. "How to make a Volcano" http://www.sciencefun.org/kidszone/experiments/how-to-make-a-volcano/ "Equation for the Reaction Between Baking Soda and Vinegar" https://www.thoughtco.com/equation-for-the-reaction-of-baking-soda-and-vinegar-604043 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 You are right. I think removing the baking soda would be beneficial. The vinegar is slightly acidic which the baking soda would neutralize. Andy |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: AK wrote: I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well, just not put on as much of a show. The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam, where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic cleaner. "homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution" http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786 1) plain old white vinegar 2) salt 3) baking soda 4) lemonshine 5) citric acid 6) lemon juice 7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe. "How to make a Volcano" http://www.sciencefun.org/kidszone/experiments/how-to-make-a-volcano/ "Equation for the Reaction Between Baking Soda and Vinegar" https://www.thoughtco.com/equation-for-the-reaction-of-baking-soda-and-vinegar-604043 I understand the concept, but I can’t imagine the collapsing bubbles imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action. Maybe the expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at that dilution ratio, and considering that you’re supposed to mix it together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and boiling water. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 20:46:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: I am not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to share what I have learned. You used good test methods. I like tests that produce numbers. Numbers can be compared and such tests are allegedly reproducible. What I did was do what I could (without cleaning up my messy workbench). Your comment about few more greases that are more likely to be found on a bicycle chain. got me very interested. I recently had my local bike shop install a new chain. I did not use any chain lubricant. Did you feel any grease on the chain? New chains, out of the box, are delivered covered with the factory grease and in a plastic bag to prevent the grease from making a mess. The grease is quite good quality and is distributed properly around the pin and bushing, which are the important bearing surfaces. If the LBS (local bike shop) "cleaned" the chain with solvent, and failed to re-lubricate it with something (grease, wax, dry lube, PTFE, magic miracle lube, etc) then the chain will wear quickly. However, quickly is measure in miles or km. It sounds like you didn't ride very far or much, which is far less than it takes to ruin a chain. I suggest you go back to your LBS and ask them what they did and what they recommend you now do. Within less than a week, my chain had a coating of grease. So I thought, where did that grease come from? Magic. The factory grease is usually all over the chain. However, if the LBS wiped off the grease from side plates, it might look like there was no grease, but there might have been plenty inside the chain parts. A little warm sun and some riding, would eventually migrate this grease to other parts of the chain. Otherwise, it has to be magic. I understand where the dirt comes from. I remembered that I pretty much always ride at least once a week through water puddles or rain. Water + non-lubricated bicycle chain = rust So you see any rust on the chain? If not, the chain was coated with some kind of chain lube or protective coating (LPS 3 wax). So I think that water + rain = grease. Rain is water, so adding additional water does not produce anything new. Well, maybe if it's raining oil. Do you live under an oil well or something similar? A storm or hurricane that just over-ran an oil field or oil spill? For a while I used 70% isopropyl alcohol to pull out the water when I wanted to pull the water out of something so it would dry quickly. 70% IPA is formulated specifically for its antiseptic qualities. Most bacteria are killed by alcohol by denaturing proteins. A little water makes the process more efficient. 91% IPA is better for cleaning. Note that both concentrations are hygroscopic and will absorb water from the air. Keep the container closed. I later learned that 90% IPA was much more efficient. For cleaning 91% is best. For medicinal purposes, 70% works better. What do you think? Now that you've removed some of the grease with alcohol, you should do something about re-lubricating the chain. I don't ride enough to require regular chain lubrication, so I'll keep my magic chain elixir formula to myself. However, I'm sure that there are plenty of others in this newsgroup who will gladly offer their experience and methodology. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 04:46:28 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: AK wrote: I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well, just not put on as much of a show. The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam, where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic cleaner. "homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution" http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786 1) plain old white vinegar 2) salt 3) baking soda 4) lemonshine 5) citric acid 6) lemon juice 7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe. I understand the concept, but I cant imagine the collapsing bubbles imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action. The cavitation produced by the collapsing bubbles is capable of pitting soft metals. However, there are no soft metals on a bicycle chain, so I guess it's safe. Ultrasonic Cleaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaning Ultrasonic cleaning uses cavitation bubbles induced by high frequency pressure (sound) waves to agitate a liquid. The agitation produces high forces on contaminants adhering to substrates like metals, plastics, glass, rubber, and ceramics. This action also penetrates blind holes, cracks, and recesses. The intention is to thoroughly remove all traces of contamination tightly adhering or embedded onto solid surfaces. Seems (to me) similar to the bubbling action of vinegar and baking soda. However, there's one important difference. The ultrasonic cleaner delivers quite a bit of energy to force the soap solution to produce bubbles, while the vinegar and soda mix has much less chemical energy. At some point during the chemical reaction, the vinegar and soda mix might approach the energy level of the ultrasonic cleaner, but for very long. Maybe the expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at that dilution ratio, and considering that youre supposed to mix it together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and boiling water. I currently don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. However, I do have a two stage vacuum pump and chamber (modified pressure cooker). I use it mostly for getting the bubbles out of resin molds and epoxy potting compound. However, when the chamber is filled with water, I can make it cold boil by simply reducing the atmospheric pressure. I have no idea what will happen, but a little soap in the water might be a good way to clean things without the risk of melting something from hot water at atmospheric pressure. (Yet another project). -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Tuesday, September 3, 2019 at 12:51:02 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 04:46:28 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: AK wrote: I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well, just not put on as much of a show. The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam, where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic cleaner. "homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution" http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786 1) plain old white vinegar 2) salt 3) baking soda 4) lemonshine 5) citric acid 6) lemon juice 7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe. I understand the concept, but I can’t imagine the collapsing bubbles imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action. The cavitation produced by the collapsing bubbles is capable of pitting soft metals. However, there are no soft metals on a bicycle chain, so I guess it's safe. Ultrasonic Cleaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaning Ultrasonic cleaning uses cavitation bubbles induced by high frequency pressure (sound) waves to agitate a liquid. The agitation produces high forces on contaminants adhering to substrates like metals, plastics, glass, rubber, and ceramics. This action also penetrates blind holes, cracks, and recesses. The intention is to thoroughly remove all traces of contamination tightly adhering or embedded onto solid surfaces. Seems (to me) similar to the bubbling action of vinegar and baking soda. However, there's one important difference. The ultrasonic cleaner delivers quite a bit of energy to force the soap solution to produce bubbles, while the vinegar and soda mix has much less chemical energy. At some point during the chemical reaction, the vinegar and soda mix might approach the energy level of the ultrasonic cleaner, but for very long. Maybe the expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at that dilution ratio, and considering that you’re supposed to mix it together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and boiling water. I currently don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. However, I do have a two stage vacuum pump and chamber (modified pressure cooker). I use it mostly for getting the bubbles out of resin molds and epoxy potting compound. However, when the chamber is filled with water, I can make it cold boil by simply reducing the atmospheric pressure. I have no idea what will happen, but a little soap in the water might be a good way to clean things without the risk of melting something from hot water at atmospheric pressure. (Yet another project). -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem, especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through the maze of chain lubes and application methods. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem, especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through the maze of chain lubes and application methods. What, Jeff? No vacuum pumps? Put an inch or so of lube into pressure cooker, add chain, close lid and then apply vacuum to extract all the air from the interstices in the chain. When you release the vacuum, the lube gets “pumped” into all the nooks and crannies. PS: I don’t personally do this... |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 04:46:28 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: AK wrote: I found a more environmentally clean option. Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle. 8 oz. water 1 Tbsp Vinegar 1 Tbsp Baking Soda 1 Tsp Dish Soap Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well, just not put on as much of a show. The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam, where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic cleaner. "homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution" http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786 1) plain old white vinegar 2) salt 3) baking soda 4) lemonshine 5) citric acid 6) lemon juice 7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe. I understand the concept, but I cant imagine the collapsing bubbles imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action. The cavitation produced by the collapsing bubbles is capable of pitting soft metals. However, there are no soft metals on a bicycle chain, so I guess it's safe. Ultrasonic Cleaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaning Ultrasonic cleaning uses cavitation bubbles induced by high frequency pressure (sound) waves to agitate a liquid. The agitation produces high forces on contaminants adhering to substrates like metals, plastics, glass, rubber, and ceramics. This action also penetrates blind holes, cracks, and recesses. The intention is to thoroughly remove all traces of contamination tightly adhering or embedded onto solid surfaces. Seems (to me) similar to the bubbling action of vinegar and baking soda. However, there's one important difference. The ultrasonic cleaner delivers quite a bit of energy to force the soap solution to produce bubbles, while the vinegar and soda mix has much less chemical energy. At some point during the chemical reaction, the vinegar and soda mix might approach the energy level of the ultrasonic cleaner, but for very long. The bubbles from an ultrasonic cleaner are basically full of vacuum, so they collapse with some vigour and slam the working fluid into whatever is being cleaned. The bubbles in your basic Grade 3 science fair volcano are full of very low pressure CO2 (the pressure is limited by the surface tension of the soap solution), so there’s an order of magnitude less energy released when they pop. Maybe the expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at that dilution ratio, and considering that youre supposed to mix it together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and boiling water. I currently don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. However, I do have a two stage vacuum pump and chamber (modified pressure cooker). I use it mostly for getting the bubbles out of resin molds and epoxy potting compound. However, when the chamber is filled with water, I can make it cold boil by simply reducing the atmospheric pressure. I have no idea what will happen, but a little soap in the water might be a good way to clean things without the risk of melting something from hot water at atmospheric pressure. (Yet another project). |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On 03/09/2019 10:41 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem, especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through the maze of chain lubes and application methods. How do you guys find any time to ride your bike? |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 15:14:16 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote: What, Jeff? No vacuum pumps? I have an Edwards 2 stage pump that needs new seals, filters, and oil. I really don't want to risk it on chain lube experiments. Put an inch or so of lube into pressure cooker, add chain, close lid and then apply vacuum to extract all the air from the interstices in the chain. When you release the vacuum, the lube gets pumped into all the nooks and crannies. Yep, that's the theory. I tried immersing the chain in hot light oil and pressurizing the tank to about 180 psi. This forced the oil into the pin and bushing joint. I assumed that when the pressure is relieved, any trapped air would push the oil back out of the joint. However, the pin and bushing are not a great air seal, and most of the oil stayed inside the chain. I looked for bubbles but didn't see any. PS: I dont personally do this... Well, it's not as much fun as a vinegar and baking soda volcano, but does have its moments. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2019 4:05 PM, AK wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of those chain cleaners. Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow to evaporate. Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength (Minutes) (KB Value) Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency VM & P Naphtha 4 38 Lacquer Thinner 2 100 Paint Thinner or Mineral Spirits 60 35 Toluene 3.5 105 Xylene 12 98 Acetone 1 Infinite MEK 2 Infinite Turpentine 40 55 Kerosene 325 30 Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate. You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff is a mix of other solvents, which can vary: https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/ Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is probably good enough. While you're at it: 1. Use gloves 2. Read the safety warnings 3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors. 4. Think about buying a parts washer: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 You must never have used IPA on grease. It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent. Andy Did you know that Jeff wrote about Iso Propyl Alcohol? = IPA -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I thought that IPA was "India Pale Ale". |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On 9/3/2019 10:36 AM, Duane wrote:
On 03/09/2019 10:41 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab. It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F. I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water. I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off. :-) Andy Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem, especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through the maze of chain lubes and application methods. How do you guys find any time to ride your bike? +1 I read here (by whom?) the term 'recreational chain cleaning'. Apt description. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On 9/2/2019 12:48 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain. Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag? Solvents to remove solvents? Is that a thing? If he chooses to use alcohol, what should he use to remove that? Is it solvent infinite regress? And then there is Plan B: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6mzE5lQ0w He has an accent. Believe him. -- Jay Beattie. Solvents for solvents: When I was an undergrad intern at an electronics research facility, we (I) had to ultra-clean items for use in vacuum. Leave bits of oil on them, and they "out-gas," degrading the vacuum, or so I was told. IIRC, the sequence was: 1) ?Alkanox? Alkaline cleaner - seemed like Comet -- & water, ultrasonic for xx minutes. Then 2) Chlorinated solvent (TCE??), ultrasonic for xx minutes. Then 3) Acetone, ultrasonic, then 4) Methanol, ultrasonic. All under the vent hood, of course. Drop something in between steps, you start all over. So yes, solvents for solvents, but you probably don't need to ultra-clean your chain, and I suspect you'd never succeed anyway. My current chain-cleaning ritual: 1) Soak in (fairly dirty) mineral spirits overnight, in capped 2 liter soda bottle. This thins the grease/muck. 2) Put chain in the heated ultrasonic cleaner (I splurged last year) with a pretty concentrated mix of Simple Green and water, for something like 10 minutes. This seems to get out the grit; I don't have the nerve to put flammable solvents in the heated cheapo ultrasonic. 3) Rinse with fresh warm water in another 2 liter bottle, shake vigorously. Maybe change water and rinse again. 4) Blow dry with jet from compressor (this year's splurge), then hang to dry overnight. Elapsed time is pretty long, but actual work time is under 10 minutes, perhaps under 5. If I need to add an obsessive step, it would be to rinse with clear water in the ultrasonic, but draining/refilling the ultrasonic would take actual time. Got a gravel bike last spring that I --gasp-- ride on gravel, and the chain gets pretty dirty pretty fast, so I need to clean more often than I did in my pure-roadie days. Mark J. |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
I like to use naptha for all parts cleaning. Don't get too much of it on your skin for too long, and don't breathe the fumes too much. Use gloves.
The best buy in naptha is the 5-gallon container of "PSC 1000" from Crown Chemicals, available at Tractor Supply for $44.00: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-cleaner-5-gal |
Does anything dissolve paint thinner
On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 at 6:25:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I like to use naptha for all parts cleaning. Don't get too much of it on your skin for too long, and don't breathe the fumes too much. Use gloves. The best buy in naptha is the 5-gallon container of "PSC 1000" from Crown Chemicals, available at Tractor Supply for $44.00: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-cleaner-5-gal Thanks. It's interesting that it is used in Coleman lanterns etc. Andy |
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