The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

I disagree, I think it does give a not so subtle/subliminal implication
it
was her that did it,
ie *she* collided, rather than someone else collided into her.

FWIW according to the other thread the CTC comment was "Vicki McCreery
died following a collision with a bus"

Tony


*That* sounds neutral.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

"Jeremy Parker" writes:

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hansen"
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes


On Thu, 27 May 2004 11:20:28 +0100 someone who may be Peter Clinch
wrote this:-

Read again. Jeremy said places /in/ Wales and Scotland.

There are places in England where cycling is less than places in
Wales and Scotland. Jeremy's comparison is bogus.


Looking at DfT publication "Cycling in Great Britain", August 1996,
we can see the highest and lowest modal splits for bike commuting
(1991 census). They are

1. Cambridge
2. York
3. Oxford

I wonder whether the Oxford and Cambridge figures include students.

Not that students don't count, but "commuting" when I was an
undergraduate (in Cambridge) involved going about 50m.

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

Tumbleweed wrote:
"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

I disagree, I think it does give a not so subtle/subliminal implication
it
was her that did it,
ie *she* collided, rather than someone else collided into her.

FWIW according to the other thread the CTC comment was "Vicki McCreery
died following a collision with a bus"

Tony


*That* sounds neutral.

So IYO

"Ms McCreery died after colliding with a bus." has a clear bias

and

"Vicki McCreery died following a collision with a bus" is neutral

Curious

Tony

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

"Paul Rudin" wrote in message
...
"Jeremy Parker" writes:

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hansen"
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes


On Thu, 27 May 2004 11:20:28 +0100 someone who may be Peter
Clinch
wrote this:-

Read again. Jeremy said places /in/ Wales and Scotland.

There are places in England where cycling is less than places
in
Wales and Scotland. Jeremy's comparison is bogus.


Looking at DfT publication "Cycling in Great Britain", August
1996,
we can see the highest and lowest modal splits for bike commuting
(1991 census). They are

1. Cambridge
2. York
3. Oxford

I wonder whether the Oxford and Cambridge figures include students.

Not that students don't count, but "commuting" when I was an
undergraduate (in Cambridge) involved going about 50m.

Not included, unless they are also working, it says.

I also think, although I can't find it stated, that only counted are
people for whom cycling is the "main leg" of the journey. In other
words, if you cycle to the train or tube station, that doesn't count.
Here in Barnet, outer London, that makes a big difference.

Jeremy Parker

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

On Sat, 29 May 2004 08:19:45 +0100, Tony Raven wrote:

Tumbleweed wrote:
"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

I disagree, I think it does give a not so subtle/subliminal implication
it
was her that did it,
ie *she* collided, rather than someone else collided into her.

FWIW according to the other thread the CTC comment was "Vicki McCreery
died following a collision with a bus"

Tony


*That* sounds neutral.

So IYO

"Ms McCreery died after colliding with a bus." has a clear bias

and

"Vicki McCreery died following a collision with a bus" is neutral

Curious

Tony

Is there a sort of blame progession here?

She died after ...
.... she hit a bus
.... she collided with a bus
.... she was in a collision with a bus
.... she and a bus collided
.... a bus was in a collision with her
.... a bus collided with her
.... a bus hit her
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "I feel so miserable without you, it's almost like having
you here." -Stephen Bishop
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

On 29 May 2004 04:27:39 +0100, Paul Rudin wrote:

"Jeremy Parker" writes:

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hansen"
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes


On Thu, 27 May 2004 11:20:28 +0100 someone who may be Peter Clinch
wrote this:-

Read again. Jeremy said places /in/ Wales and Scotland.

There are places in England where cycling is less than places in
Wales and Scotland. Jeremy's comparison is bogus.


Looking at DfT publication "Cycling in Great Britain", August 1996,
we can see the highest and lowest modal splits for bike commuting
(1991 census). They are

1. Cambridge
2. York
3. Oxford

I wonder whether the Oxford and Cambridge figures include students.


No, they're not. The report says the following:

Students are not included in these data (unless they are also working), but
it is likely that their
traditionally high use of bicycles influences the usage of non-students,
and that more facilities are
available to cyclists in these areas. It is also possible that congested
streets and parking difficulties
in these popular tourist cities discourage car use.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He loves nature in spite of what it did to him." -
Forrest Tucker
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

On Fri, 28 May 2004 23:18:05 +0100, "Jeremy Parker"
wrote (more or less):


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hansen"
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes


On Thu, 27 May 2004 11:20:28 +0100 someone who may be Peter Clinch
wrote this:-

Read again. Jeremy said places /in/ Wales and Scotland.

There are places in England where cycling is less than places in
Wales and Scotland. Jeremy's comparison is bogus.


Looking at DfT publication "Cycling in Great Britain", August 1996,
we can see the highest and lowest modal splits for bike commuting
(1991 census). They are

1. Cambridge
2. York
3. Oxford
4. Boston
5. Gosport
......
453. Blaenau Gwent
454. Rhondda
455. Shetland Islands
456. Monklands
457. Cumbernauld and Kilsyth
458. (and last, with 0.1%) Inverclyde

Bizarre - I was sure that Millport and Great Cumbrae are in
Inverclyde.


Jeremy Parker



--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

On Fri, 28 May 2004 22:36:44 +0100, "Tony Raven"
wrote (more or less):

David Hansen wrote:
On 23 May 2004 12:35:07 -0700 someone who may be
(bikerider7) wrote this:-

Scandal of our deadly cycle lanes

I note that

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/traffi...ing%20Standard
asserts that, "Ms McCreery died after colliding with a bus on 10
May."

I suspect that this is an outright lie. Had she collided with the
bus then I suspect she would still be alive. I suspect that the bus
driver collided with her, but the mass media is careful to avoid
stating the truth in this sort of case.

My dictionary has collide as the violent coming together of two moving bodies.
I think therefore that it does not have the implication you think. I would
agree if it said she had hit the bus but with collide the implication is
neutral IMO

I think 'in collision with' is neutral.

'collided with' is in the active voice, and so has a strong
connotation of active participation.


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:
"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

I disagree, I think it does give a not so subtle/subliminal
implication
it
was her that did it,
ie *she* collided, rather than someone else collided into her.

FWIW according to the other thread the CTC comment was "Vicki McCreery
died following a collision with a bus"

Tony


*That* sounds neutral.

So IYO

"Ms McCreery died after colliding with a bus." has a clear bias

and

"Vicki McCreery died following a collision with a bus" is neutral

Curious

Tony


Not at all.

The first implies she was the one doing the colliding (or at least, the
active participant in it), the second is neutral as to who the active
parties wre (ie, from a POV of causality). Subtle language, English.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
 

Gawnsoft typed



Bizarre - I was sure that Millport and Great Cumbrae are in
Inverclyde.


Umm isn't it officially 'North Ayrshire'? It is on my AutoRoute...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.