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-   -   Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=8430)

MrBob July 22nd 03 12:09 AM

Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy
 
From a Tivo frame by frame of OLN's coverage carried by DirecTV:

-28 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong matches, Ullrich matches, but 'not as
spritely'
- 15 sec Armstrong counters, Mayo matches, Ullrich still churning about
one second behind

0 sec what appears to be the strap of a musette / feedbag catches
Armstrong's right brake lever, yanking his bars to the right, causing
him to fall immediately. If Armstrong has a front brake / right lever
combo he may have locked up his front wheel. Mayo, right behind
Armstrong, can't avoid the crash and rides up onto Armstrong's rear
wheel. Both Armstrong and Mayo go down hard. Armstrong lands left hip,
left elbow, left upper back and rolls, appearing not to hit his head,
which was off camera for a few frames. Mayo falls on his left side,
clear of the bikes, left hand first, and then left elbow and left hip /
chest / underarm. Mayo's head does not whack ground. Ullrich swerves to
the left, missing Mayo's rear wheel (Mayo's bike is not on top of Mayo)
by what appears to be less that 30 cm.

+5 sec Mayo is on his feet, bike in hand, but has some difficulty
getting started. Armstrong on his feet a seconds or so later and is bent
over pulling on his chain / front derailleur.

+11 sec Mayo looks to be getting started, but coverage cuts to instant
replay

+23 sec live coverage resumes as Armstrong gets a shove off from a man
in a red shirt. Mayo is long gone.

+ 36 sec Catches up to Rubiera and they fly past Mayo (?) a few seconds
later

+ 48 sec Ullrich shown sitting up, looking over his shoulders, other
riders catching up

+ 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right
foot popps out at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of
OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip problem, as his left foot
flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip is
not too surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's
drivetrain in the crash. Right foot hits the ground, chest hits stem,
crotch hits top tube, left foot does not pop out, and Armstrong regains
control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes Armstrong a few
seconds to restart fully pumping.

+ 96 sec Ullrich is clearly not attacking, and there is a group of about
seven riders with him. Basso comes to the front of the group and
Hamilton catches up and admonishes him to slow down. A few seconds
later...

+ 113 sec Armstrong joins the rear of the Ullrich group

+ 120 sec Mayo attacks but is caught by Ullrich and then the rest of the
group.

+ 159 sec Rubiera leads out Armstrong with Ullrich on Armstrong's wheel

+ 205 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong counters and... well we know the rest.

So 3 minutes and 25 seconds after the crash, Armstrong's attack
slaughters the remaining field. How long is an adrenaline shot good for?

Finally, all this talk about how good / bad the new DA pedals are is at
best irrelevant, and probably wrong- without clips and straps, no pedal
system is perfect when the chain slips while the rider is out of the
saddle and under full power. Armstrong's full power. If anything, the
pedals proved themselves wonderfully, as Armstrong's left foot did not
pop out, and he did not crash.

Java Man (Espressopithecus) July 22nd 03 01:41 AM

Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy
 
In article ,
spamonme says...
From a Tivo frame by frame of OLN's coverage carried by DirecTV:

-28 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong matches, Ullrich matches, but 'not as
spritely'
- 15 sec Armstrong counters, Mayo matches, Ullrich still churning about
one second behind

0 sec what appears to be the strap of a musette / feedbag catches
Armstrong's right brake lever, yanking his bars to the right, causing
him to fall immediately. If Armstrong has a front brake / right lever
combo he may have locked up his front wheel. Mayo, right behind
Armstrong, can't avoid the crash and rides up onto Armstrong's rear
wheel. Both Armstrong and Mayo go down hard. Armstrong lands left hip,
left elbow, left upper back and rolls, appearing not to hit his head,
which was off camera for a few frames. Mayo falls on his left side,
clear of the bikes, left hand first, and then left elbow and left hip /
chest / underarm. Mayo's head does not whack ground. Ullrich swerves to
the left, missing Mayo's rear wheel (Mayo's bike is not on top of Mayo)
by what appears to be less that 30 cm.

+5 sec Mayo is on his feet, bike in hand, but has some difficulty
getting started. Armstrong on his feet a seconds or so later and is bent
over pulling on his chain / front derailleur.

+11 sec Mayo looks to be getting started, but coverage cuts to instant
replay

+23 sec live coverage resumes as Armstrong gets a shove off from a man
in a red shirt. Mayo is long gone.

+ 36 sec Catches up to Rubiera and they fly past Mayo (?) a few seconds
later

+ 48 sec Ullrich shown sitting up, looking over his shoulders, other
riders catching up

+ 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right
foot popps out at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of
OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip problem, as his left foot
flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip is
not too surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's
drivetrain in the crash. Right foot hits the ground, chest hits stem,
crotch hits top tube, left foot does not pop out, and Armstrong regains
control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes Armstrong a few
seconds to restart fully pumping.

+ 96 sec Ullrich is clearly not attacking, and there is a group of about
seven riders with him. Basso comes to the front of the group and
Hamilton catches up and admonishes him to slow down. A few seconds
later...

+ 113 sec Armstrong joins the rear of the Ullrich group

+ 120 sec Mayo attacks but is caught by Ullrich and then the rest of the
group.

+ 159 sec Rubiera leads out Armstrong with Ullrich on Armstrong's wheel

+ 205 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong counters and... well we know the rest.

So 3 minutes and 25 seconds after the crash, Armstrong's attack
slaughters the remaining field. How long is an adrenaline shot good for?

Finally, all this talk about how good / bad the new DA pedals are is at
best irrelevant, and probably wrong- without clips and straps, no pedal
system is perfect when the chain slips while the rider is out of the
saddle and under full power. Armstrong's full power. If anything, the
pedals proved themselves wonderfully, as Armstrong's left foot did not
pop out, and he did not crash.

Thanks, but you've ruined a lot of good arguments.

;-)

Rick

Arthur Ogus July 22nd 03 03:20 AM

Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy
 
In article ,
MrBob wrote:




I've just watched the OLN clip over the net. I think the
"musette or feedback" is actually one of the yellow TDF
souvenir bags for sale to spectators. (I was at the prologue
in Paris, but am back in the US now.) My wife is mad at me
for not having bought one.

Mike Murray July 22nd 03 06:38 AM

Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy
 

"MrBob" wrote:
"Finally, all this talk about how good / bad the new DA pedals are is at
best irrelevant, and probably wrong-"

Definitely irrelevant with regards to the cleats that we can buy. The
designer from Nike that does Armstrong's shoes told me yesterday that
Armstrong is using a special fixed cleat that was custom made for him by
Shimano.

--
Mike Murray



Raptor July 22nd 03 06:48 AM

Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy
 
Brian Phillips wrote:
"MrBob" wrote

snip crotch hits top tube....

Ouch! So maybe there is some advantage to having only one nut...


The several times I've seen it today, I did not see LANCE bottom out on
the top tube. Rather, it looks to me like he had a close save using his
arms and left leg. I've done the same somewhere among the 1000's of
minor mishaps I've had on my mtb. (And also pranged myself pretty good
by not catching it in time.)

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.


Lindsay July 22nd 03 03:54 PM

Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy
 
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:48:50 -0600, Raptor wrote:


The several times I've seen it today, I did not see LANCE bottom out on
the top tube. Rather, it looks to me like he had a close save using his
arms and left leg. I've done the same somewhere among the 1000's of
minor mishaps I've had on my mtb. (And also pranged myself pretty good
by not catching it in time.)


He definitely hit the seat with the nether region.

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free
will and individual responsibility is the difficulty
of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And
when you do find somebody, it's remarkable how often
his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

Bryan Boldt July 22nd 03 10:49 PM

Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy
 
One additional point, chain slip was probably induced as a result of Lance riding with a broken
chainstay. Amazing he didn't notice the broken frame over the next 9km... but then again, he rides
all day with the rear brake on too :)

Why chance remounting the crashed bike, when the mechanic was there to puch him off? Lance spent
too much time fumbling with the jammed chain when they could have whipped out a new bike from the
team car. He lucked out this time, but probably not the best move.

MrBob wrote:

"MrBob" wrote in message
...
+ 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right
foot popps out at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of
OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip problem, as his left foot
flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip is
not too surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's
drivetrain in the crash. Right foot hits the ground, chest hits stem,
crotch hits top tube, left foot does not pop out, and Armstrong regains
control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes Armstrong a few
seconds to restart fully pumping.

In article ,
"Monty" wrote:

A chain slip? I'm sorry, what is a chain slip?

Did the chain slip over the chain ring?


When the chain jumps the rear cogs, or comes off the front chainring. It
gives a similar effect to that of a broken chain - your downward foot
drops quickly to the bottom of the pedal stroke. If you're standing when
it happens you'll be lucky to keep control.



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