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-   -   AG: Aunt Granny's Advice, or How to become an elderly cyclist: (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=245154)

Frank Krygowski[_4_] November 16th 14 07:20 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)


If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.


I agree in theory; but I'm sure it would never work in practice.

For whatever reason, American pedestrians tend to stay to the right on
walking facilities, passing opposite direction walkers left shoulder to
left shoulder. It's not 100%, but it's the strong trend, even in places
like indoor shopping malls. And that same scheme is socially enforced on
the local multi-user paths. I don't think signs or rules are likely to
succeed in changing it.

I remember (somewhere out in the central U.S.) encountering a MUP that
had signs telling cyclists to ride on the left, and walkers to keep
right! I suppose the motivation was the same - let the peds see the
oncoming cyclists - but that was even worse. We don't need to be
training any more cyclists to ride on the left side of roads.

Unfortunately, the root problem is that bikes and pedestrians don't mix
very well. Bikes actually mix much better with motor vehicles. This is
why I almost always prefer riding on roads, not MUPs.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Duane[_3_] November 18th 14 01:47 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)


If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.

John D. Slocomb November 19th 14 12:48 AM

AG: Make some noise
 
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:47:32 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)


If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.


Probably the walkers/runners should "take the lane" as it is popularly
known to solve all problems :-)

--
cheers,

John D.Slocomb

Duane[_3_] November 19th 14 05:20 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/18/2014 7:48 PM, John D. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:47:32 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)

If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.


Probably the walkers/runners should "take the lane" as it is popularly
known to solve all problems :-)

--
cheers,



Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup, but if you look at
what happens when pedestrians walking at 4-6km/h "take the lane" where
bikes are riding at the legally limited 20k/h you begin to see a pattern...


Frank Krygowski[_4_] November 19th 14 08:02 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/19/2014 12:20 PM, Duane wrote:


Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup...


Of course not. You prefer to have nobody question your ideas.


--
- Frank Krygowski

John D. Slocomb November 20th 14 01:17 AM

AG: Make some noise
 
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:20:34 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/18/2014 7:48 PM, John D. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:47:32 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)

If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.


Probably the walkers/runners should "take the lane" as it is popularly
known to solve all problems :-)

--
cheers,



Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup, but if you look at
what happens when pedestrians walking at 4-6km/h "take the lane" where
bikes are riding at the legally limited 20k/h you begin to see a pattern...


Hmmm.... I would imagine it will be much the same as a bicycle taking
the lane on a highway where motor vehicles are whizzing by at 80 or 90
:-)
--
cheers,

John D.Slocomb

Duane[_3_] November 20th 14 01:35 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/19/2014 8:17 PM, John D. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:20:34 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/18/2014 7:48 PM, John D. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:47:32 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)

If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.

Probably the walkers/runners should "take the lane" as it is popularly
known to solve all problems :-)

--
cheers,



Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup, but if you look at
what happens when pedestrians walking at 4-6km/h "take the lane" where
bikes are riding at the legally limited 20k/h you begin to see a pattern...


Hmmm.... I would imagine it will be much the same as a bicycle taking
the lane on a highway where motor vehicles are whizzing by at 80 or 90
:-)
--
cheers,


That's the pattern I was referring too.



Duane[_3_] November 20th 14 01:35 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/19/2014 3:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:20 PM, Duane wrote:


Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup...


Of course not. You prefer to have nobody question your ideas.



Troll.



dgk November 20th 14 02:08 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:35:17 -0500, Duane
wrote:


Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup, but if you look at
what happens when pedestrians walking at 4-6km/h "take the lane" where
bikes are riding at the legally limited 20k/h you begin to see a pattern...


Hmmm.... I would imagine it will be much the same as a bicycle taking
the lane on a highway where motor vehicles are whizzing by at 80 or 90
:-)
--
cheers,


That's the pattern I was referring too.


On the bike lane (not shared with pedestrians/runners) it works well
if the pedestrian stays to the right in either direction. The type A
who insists on running in the center is a big problem since we don't
know which side to pass on.

Rolf Mantel November 20th 14 02:16 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
Am 20.11.2014 15:08, schrieb dgk:
The type A
who insists on running in the center is a big problem since we don't
know which side to pass on.


I solve this by calling out loud 'Which side an I supposed to pass on?'
while I'm still far enough away to react on their decision; normal
pedestrians get a 'Hi' or 'Good day' or equivalent.

Rolf



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