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-   -   Air Pollution Triggers Heart Risk for Cyclistsfrom Scientific American (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=229332)

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher[_2_] July 14th 11 06:04 PM

Air Pollution Triggers Heart Risk for Cyclistsfrom Scientific American
 
On Jul 13, 9:34 am, Peter Cole wrote:
On 7/12/2011 11:09 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:









On Jul 12, 6:21 am, Duane wrote:


Yep. It also suggests that in the mean time, avoiding roads with heavier
motor traffic reduces exposure. Sort of a no-brainer IMO. Who would
purposely choose to ride where there is more motor vehicle traffic when
there is an better option? Sometime you don't have a choice but you often
do.


It's not a binary decision. Should a cyclist make the choice to add a
mile to a half-mile trip so as to avoid a road with 20% more
traffic?


As (almost) always, the hazards of cycling are being exaggerated by
the article. The hazards of motoring are being de-emphasized.


I recently finished the book _How To Live Dangerously_ by Cairns. In
it, he deals with a very similar decision: Should you ride your bike
to work if the only way to get there is a busy road on which two
cyclists have already died?


In his view, yes, you certainly should bike to work. It's extremely
likely that even in that situation, the benefits of regular cycling to
work outweigh the risks.


Of course, he refers to data on relative risk in order to reach that
conclusion. Such arguments don't fly with a lot of people.


- Frank Krygowski


Good news that segregating bike traffic helps, though.


No, it doesn't work. Holland and Denmark are a complete failure. The
success stories are to be found somewhere in Florida and Texas.


AMuzi July 14th 11 06:41 PM

Air Pollution Triggers Heart Risk for Cyclistsfrom ScientificAmerican
 
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser
Philosopher wrote:
On Jul 13, 9:34 am, Peter Cole wrote:
On 7/12/2011 11:09 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:









On Jul 12, 6:21 am, Duane wrote:
Yep. It also suggests that in the mean time, avoiding roads with heavier
motor traffic reduces exposure. Sort of a no-brainer IMO. Who would
purposely choose to ride where there is more motor vehicle traffic when
there is an better option? Sometime you don't have a choice but you often
do.
It's not a binary decision. Should a cyclist make the choice to add a
mile to a half-mile trip so as to avoid a road with 20% more
traffic?
As (almost) always, the hazards of cycling are being exaggerated by
the article. The hazards of motoring are being de-emphasized.
I recently finished the book _How To Live Dangerously_ by Cairns. In
it, he deals with a very similar decision: Should you ride your bike
to work if the only way to get there is a busy road on which two
cyclists have already died?
In his view, yes, you certainly should bike to work. It's extremely
likely that even in that situation, the benefits of regular cycling to
work outweigh the risks.
Of course, he refers to data on relative risk in order to reach that
conclusion. Such arguments don't fly with a lot of people.
- Frank Krygowski

Good news that segregating bike traffic helps, though.


No, it doesn't work. Holland and Denmark are a complete failure. The
success stories are to be found somewhere in Florida and Texas.



Texas is a roughly $1.5 trillion dollar economy.
Denmark turns over roughly US$300 billion.

This is not news. Here are a couple of easily found links
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/denmark/gdp
http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...us_equivalents

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher July 14th 11 06:58 PM

Air Pollution Triggers Heart Risk for Cyclistsfrom Scientific American
 
On Jul 14, 1:41*pm, AMuzi wrote:
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser









Philosopher wrote:
On Jul 13, 9:34 am, Peter Cole wrote:
On 7/12/2011 11:09 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:


On Jul 12, 6:21 am, Duane *wrote:
Yep. *It also suggests that in the mean time, avoiding roads with heavier
motor traffic reduces exposure. * Sort of a no-brainer IMO. *Who would
purposely choose to ride where there is more motor vehicle traffic when
there is an better option? *Sometime you don't have a choice but you often
do.
It's not a binary decision. *Should a cyclist make the choice to add a
mile to a half-mile trip so as to avoid a road with 20% more
traffic?
As (almost) always, the hazards of cycling are being exaggerated by
the article. *The hazards of motoring are being de-emphasized.
I recently finished the book _How To Live Dangerously_ by Cairns. *In
it, he deals with a very similar decision: *Should you ride your bike
to work if the only way to get there is a busy road on which two
cyclists have already died?
In his view, yes, you certainly should bike to work. *It's extremely
likely that even in that situation, the benefits of regular cycling to
work outweigh the risks.
Of course, he refers to data on relative risk in order to reach that
conclusion. *Such arguments don't fly with a lot of people.
- Frank Krygowski
Good news that segregating bike traffic helps, though.


No, it doesn't work. Holland and Denmark are a complete failure. The
success stories are to be found somewhere in Florida and Texas.


Texas is a roughly $1.5 trillion dollar economy.
Denmark turns over roughly US$300 billion.

This is not news. Here are a couple of easily found linkshttp://www.tradingeconomics.com/denmark/gdphttp://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/01/us_equivalents

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Is that how you measure success?

Northern European countries are all listed in QUALITY OF LIFE.

And Germany alone --1/5 the population of America-- exports more than
the USA. I bet it takes more than big trucks and mega churches to be
happy.

Peter Cole[_2_] July 14th 11 11:40 PM

Air Pollution Triggers Heart Risk for Cyclistsfrom ScientificAmerican
 
On 7/14/2011 1:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
On Jul 13, 9:34 am, Peter Cole wrote:
On 7/12/2011 11:09 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:









On Jul 12, 6:21 am, Duane wrote:
Yep. It also suggests that in the mean time, avoiding roads with
heavier
motor traffic reduces exposure. Sort of a no-brainer IMO. Who would
purposely choose to ride where there is more motor vehicle traffic
when
there is an better option? Sometime you don't have a choice but you
often
do.
It's not a binary decision. Should a cyclist make the choice to add a
mile to a half-mile trip so as to avoid a road with 20% more
traffic?
As (almost) always, the hazards of cycling are being exaggerated by
the article. The hazards of motoring are being de-emphasized.
I recently finished the book _How To Live Dangerously_ by Cairns. In
it, he deals with a very similar decision: Should you ride your bike
to work if the only way to get there is a busy road on which two
cyclists have already died?
In his view, yes, you certainly should bike to work. It's extremely
likely that even in that situation, the benefits of regular cycling to
work outweigh the risks.
Of course, he refers to data on relative risk in order to reach that
conclusion. Such arguments don't fly with a lot of people.
- Frank Krygowski
Good news that segregating bike traffic helps, though.


No, it doesn't work. Holland and Denmark are a complete failure. The
success stories are to be found somewhere in Florida and Texas.



Texas is a roughly $1.5 trillion dollar economy.
Denmark turns over roughly US$300 billion.

This is not news. Here are a couple of easily found links
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/denmark/gdp
http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...us_equivalents


I don't know where all this is going. The only point I was trying to
make is that it seems to be becoming more obvious that cycling in close
proximity to MV exhaust isn't good for you and even small separation can
be helpful -- something my nose told me long ago.

I don't know what the 5x GDP of Texas vs. Denmark proves, when Texas has
5x the population, too.

Frank Krygowski[_2_] July 15th 11 01:12 AM

Air Pollution Triggers Heart Risk for Cyclistsfrom Scientific American
 
On Jul 14, 6:40*pm, Peter Cole wrote:
The only point I was trying to
make is that it seems to be becoming more obvious that cycling in close
proximity to MV exhaust isn't good for you...


But that's wrong. It's still good for you. Perhaps not as good as
cycling in clean, pure mountain air; but far better for you than being
inside a car in that same atmosphere.

From that article: "The new study of Canadian cyclists does not mean
that people should lock up their bikes and hop back into the driver's
seat, said Brauer. Another study has shown that drivers have higher
respiratory problems than cyclists because of their higher exposure to
volatile organic chemicals in vehicle exhaust.

"In stop-and-go traffic, [drivers] have more exposure than a cyclist
who stays 15 feet or more from the tailpipes," said Rebecca Serna,
executive director of the Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, a cycling
advocacy group.

The health benefits of cycling far outweigh the risks from air
pollution and traffic collisions relative to car driving, "

Most here have probably heard of Mayer Hillman's work, that found 20
years of life gained for every year of life lost due to cycling. That
was for all of society, i.e. including things like fewer deaths due to
cars killing others, and fewer deaths related to air pollution. A
more recent study from northern Europe concentrated on YOL gained vs.
lost regarding only the cyclists. It estimated seven cyclist YOL
gained for every cyclist YOL lost. I can dig up the citation, for
those interested.

Cycling is good for you. There's no need for alarmist statements.

- Frank Krygowski

T°m Sherm@n July 15th 11 03:59 AM

OT - Why Denmark is Better Than Texas
 
On 7/14/2011 5:40 PM, Peter Cole wrote:
On 7/14/2011 1:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
On Jul 13, 9:34 am, Peter Cole wrote:
[...]
Good news that segregating bike traffic helps, though.

No, it doesn't work. Holland and Denmark are a complete failure. The
success stories are to be found somewhere in Florida and Texas.



Texas is a roughly $1.5 trillion dollar economy.
Denmark turns over roughly US$300 billion.

This is not news. Here are a couple of easily found links
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/denmark/gdp
http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...us_equivalents


I don't know where all this is going. The only point I was trying to
make is that it seems to be becoming more obvious that cycling in close
proximity to MV exhaust isn't good for you and even small separation can
be helpful -- something my nose told me long ago.

I don't know what the 5x GDP of Texas vs. Denmark proves, when Texas has
5x the population, too.


But Texas has way more than 5 times the criminals (both white and blue
collar), religious nuts, ignoramuses, SUVs, sociopathic crony
capitalists, and other undesirables compared to Denmark. Also more than
5 times the population of homeless, untreated ill, chronically hungry,
and exploited low wage workers.

The laws regarding victimless crimes are much more sensible in Denmark
than Texas, due to the population being aware of The Enlightenment,
rather than the socially regressive nature of Texas.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen is pretty far right-wing by Danish standards, but
a far cry from the brutality and ignorance of Shrub Bush and Good-hair
Perry (not to mention the criminality of the former).

Denmark has the much superior climate 9 months out of the year. And one
of the best names for a bicycle manufacturer:
http://www.larryvsharry.com/english/.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Chalo July 15th 11 06:55 AM

OT - Why Denmark is Better Than Texas
 
Tจm Shermขn wrote:

But Texas has way more than 5 times the criminals (both white and blue
collar), religious nuts, ignoramuses, SUVs, sociopathic crony
capitalists, and other undesirables compared to Denmark. Â*Also more than
5 times the population of homeless, untreated ill, chronically hungry,
and exploited low wage workers.


Yew got a problem with that, boy? The Lowrd provides even for the
lilies of the field, does He not? (Except that they are all dead in
the Lone Star State, but no matter.)

http://www.drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html

The laws regarding victimless crimes are much more sensible in Denmark
than Texas, due to the population being aware of The Enlightenment,
rather than the socially regressive nature of Texas.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen is pretty far right-wing by Danish standards, but
a far cry from the brutality and ignorance of Shrub Bush and Good-hair
Perry (not to mention the criminality of the former).


Speaking of victimless crimes and their opposites, (p)Rick Perry just
_vetoed_ a ban on texting while driving that had passed the
reactionary Republican Texas legislature. Said it amounted to
micromanaging the affairs of adults.

It's like the mother****er goes around scouting for unexploited
opportunities to be an evil dicktard.

Denmark has the much superior climate 9 months out of the year. Â*


Whatever, dude. I could have stayed in Seattle after almost six years
there. The NW climate was a deal breaker, and the Austin, Texas
climate was the incentive to move back home.

How sad it is to live in a place where your body can never cleanse out
its accumulated grease, varnish, gums, mineral deposits, uncashed
checks, weakly founded superstitions, minced oaths, and termites,
simply because it never gets hot enough to melt these blights
away!

Why in the world would Scandinavians have their sauna if not for a
deep primal longing to be Texans? Answer me that.

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/Wea...ation=USTX0057

Chalo

Lou Holtman[_7_] July 15th 11 11:47 AM

OT - Why Denmark is Better Than Texas
 
Op 15-7-2011 7:55, Chalo schreef:


Denmark has the much superior climate 9 months out of the year.


Whatever, dude. I could have stayed in Seattle after almost six years
there. The NW climate was a deal breaker, and the Austin, Texas
climate was the incentive to move back home.

How sad it is to live in a place where your body can never cleanse out
its accumulated grease, varnish, gums, mineral deposits, uncashed
checks, weakly founded superstitions, minced oaths, and termites,
simply because it never gets hot enough to melt these blights
away!


We have showers Chalo ;-)


Why in the world would Scandinavians have their sauna if not for a
deep primal longing to be Texans? Answer me that.


Denmarks climate is not as extreme as the other Scandinavian countries.
It is much like the Dutch climate. Got the day off today to work on my
home improvement project of this year. Plan a 100 km ride later this
afternoon. All this I would not do when it was 104 F, but it's 20-21 C,
partly cloudy with a gentle breeze. Good luck with your Texas/Austin
climate.

Lou

[email protected][_2_] July 15th 11 01:19 PM

OT - Why Denmark is Better Than Texas
 
On Jul 14, 8:59*pm, "T°m Sherm@n" ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 7/14/2011 5:40 PM, Peter Cole wrote:









On 7/14/2011 1:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
On Jul 13, 9:34 am, Peter Cole wrote:
[...]
Good news that segregating bike traffic helps, though.


No, it doesn't work. Holland and Denmark are a complete failure. The
success stories are to be found somewhere in Florida and Texas.


Texas is a roughly $1.5 trillion dollar economy.
Denmark turns over roughly US$300 billion.


This is not news. Here are a couple of easily found links
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/denmark/gdp
http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...us_equivalents


I don't know where all this is going. The only point I was trying to
make is that it seems to be becoming more obvious that cycling in close
proximity to MV exhaust isn't good for you and even small separation can
be helpful -- something my nose told me long ago.


I don't know what the 5x GDP of Texas vs. Denmark proves, when Texas has
5x the population, too.


But Texas has way more than 5 times the criminals (both white and blue
collar), religious nuts, ignoramuses, SUVs, sociopathic crony
capitalists, and other undesirables compared to Denmark. *Also more than
5 times the population of homeless, untreated ill, chronically hungry,
and exploited low wage workers.

The laws regarding victimless crimes are much more sensible in Denmark
than Texas, due to the population being aware of The Enlightenment,
rather than the socially regressive nature of Texas.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen is pretty far right-wing by Danish standards, but
a far cry from the brutality and ignorance of Shrub Bush and Good-hair
Perry (not to mention the criminality of the former).

Denmark has the much superior climate 9 months out of the year. *And one
of the best names for a bicycle manufacturer:
http://www.larryvsharry.com/english/.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.


But, but, but....Texas is the most macho, tough, god fearing state in
the good ol' USA. Plus we have the handsomest, toughest, most macho,
most religious , and soon to be president of the USA, Rick Perry. He
is on a mission from god to become president so that he can minister
to us, or so he claims. No more black communist foreigners and
feminazis in the whitehouse. Do I have to remind u that GHB, BWB and
Alberto Gonzalez are all from TX?

Texas is also so macho that it is one of the least educated states in
the nation, and it has cut pretty much all educational and social
services for the state in the last budget session, despite having some
of the richest and most powerful corporations in the WORLD. NOw, that
is really, really macho!

Finally, we got CHALO, and this makes us the bestest of the best.

Jay Beattie July 15th 11 05:56 PM

OT - Why Denmark is Better Than Texas
 
On Jul 15, 3:47*am, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 15-7-2011 7:55, Chalo schreef:



Denmark has the much superior climate 9 months out of the year.


Whatever, dude. *I could have stayed in Seattle after almost six years
there. *The NW climate was a deal breaker, and the Austin, Texas
climate was the incentive to move back home.


How sad it is to live in a place where your body can never cleanse out
its accumulated grease, varnish, gums, mineral deposits, uncashed
checks, weakly founded superstitions, minced oaths, and termites,
simply because it never gets hot enough to melt these blights
away!


We have showers Chalo *;-)



Why in the world would Scandinavians have their sauna if not for a
deep primal longing to be Texans? *Answer me that.


Denmarks climate is not as extreme as the other Scandinavian countries.
It is much like the Dutch climate. Got the day off today to work on my
home improvement project of this year. Plan a 100 km ride later this
afternoon. All this I would not do when it was 104 F, but it's 20-21 C,
partly cloudy with a gentle breeze. Good luck with your Texas/Austin
climate.


Some people like heat. I was doing a climb last weekend on Mt. Hood on
a hot day and thought I was going to drop dead. I don't like that
prickly feeling on my arms. The odd part is that I was raised in a
warm climate and never thought twice about hot weather. After all
these years in PDX, though, my thermostat has been readjusted. And for
the record, PDX is not a dreary as Seattle.

Don't got this in Texas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-DdSdi2LOs
From my house to the top and back is maybe 130 miles. I tend to cut
it down a bit by doing a park and ride. Last week I just did a short
ride to Government Camp, which is the start of the climb shown on the
YouTube clip. I left my son off at ski race camp -- sniff, sniff, I
miss him. A week of gates on Palmer and then a week of camper staff
washing dishes and free skiing, eg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cykk2ZUgcE4

-- Jay Beattie.


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