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-   -   Tricks for keeping cadence? (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=66669)

Badger_South October 19th 04 07:33 PM

Tricks for keeping cadence?
 

I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping cadence high
going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a tune, or count reps
when the going gets tough and I start to sink below 65 or 70 (or lower).

I count to 50 and then try and take a deep sigh (more or less forceful
breathe out), and think 'sink/get centered', then do it again.

Have the experts pretty much decided that higher cadence is the way to go?
I realize we just discussed this here, in relation to energy conservation,
but we still see low cadence riding a lot in the pros during climbs. I'm
thinking maybe it's something that's just very hard to change once you've
developed your riding, and climbing style.

I haven't learned the 'quiet upper body' phase yet, but it seems like
that's next.

-B



Roger Zoul October 19th 04 09:10 PM

Badger_South wrote:
:: I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping
:: cadence high going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a
:: tune, or count reps when the going gets tough and I start to sink
:: below 65 or 70 (or lower).

why not just look at your cadence computer?

::
:: I count to 50 and then try and take a deep sigh (more or less
:: forceful breathe out), and think 'sink/get centered', then do it
:: again.

you count while riding? that must be painful. someone might run into you
while you're concentrating on counting reps.

::
:: Have the experts pretty much decided that higher cadence is the way
:: to go?

Well, if it's good enough for Lance.....

I realize we just discussed this here, in relation to energy
:: conservation, but we still see low cadence riding a lot in the pros
:: during climbs. I'm thinking maybe it's something that's just very
:: hard to change once you've developed your riding, and climbing style.

Bad habits are hard to change....

::
:: I haven't learned the 'quiet upper body' phase yet, but it seems like
:: that's next.
::
:: -B



Badger_South October 19th 04 09:52 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:10:56 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Badger_South wrote:
:: I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping
:: cadence high going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a
:: tune, or count reps when the going gets tough and I start to sink
:: below 65 or 70 (or lower).

why not just look at your cadence computer?

::
:: I count to 50 and then try and take a deep sigh (more or less
:: forceful breathe out), and think 'sink/get centered', then do it
:: again.

you count while riding? that must be painful. someone might run into you
while you're concentrating on counting reps.


Ok, Mr Advanced Rider, lol. I'm talking about keeping up cadence on
sections where you're breathing quite forcefully and about to rep out in
38x15 at 55rpm, seated. Don't you ride near current max sections where
you're about to see stars until you reach the flats or more gentle slope?

I realize we just discussed this here, in relation to energy
:: conservation, but we still see low cadence riding a lot in the pros
:: during climbs. I'm thinking maybe it's something that's just very
:: hard to change once you've developed your riding, and climbing style.

Bad habits are hard to change....


It's not so much that it's a habit, but perhaps similar to
changing/improving something fundamental in your form, such as stride
length in jogging. (something that may not even be adviseable).

IOW, it seems like -such- a good idea, yet are many pros trying to train
that way? If not, why not?

-B



[email protected] October 19th 04 11:22 PM

Badger South writes:

I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping
cadence high going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a
tune, or count reps when the going gets tough and I start to sink
below 65 or 70 (or lower).


I count to 50 and then try and take a deep sigh (more or less
forceful breathe out), and think 'sink/get centered', then do it
again.


Why do you care? From what you write, it seems you don't have any
real mountains to climb. In that case it isn't cadence that counts
but speed. Here you have a great opportunity to determine in which
gear you climb faster by clocking the same run repeatedly in a lower
and higher gear with statistical sampling. Just measure the ET.

Have the experts pretty much decided that higher cadence is the way
to go? I realize we just discussed this here, in relation to energy
conservation, but we still see low cadence riding a lot in the pros
during climbs. I'm thinking maybe it's something that's just very
hard to change once you've developed your riding, and climbing
style.


I don't know that we have heard from any experts, although some have
claimed such skills. You can't tell what the credentials of posters
to this newsgroup are, only whether they make sense. Don't take oft
repeated "facts" as valid. They just get repeated here enough to
become absolute among the faithful.

I haven't learned the 'quiet upper body' phase yet, but it seems
like that's next.


That's called the "nothing moves but my legs" syndrome, a fetish among
beginners and only on short grades. I have ridden many long climbs in
the Alps and never seen anyone ride like that near the top although
some riders start out that way.

Get out and ride and don't worry about form. That will come naturally
if you hurry when riding. This is especially true if you ride with
someone who's a bit faster.

Jobst Brandt


Ivar Hesselager October 19th 04 11:56 PM

This may appear to be an idiocyncracy, so let's keep it between us, OK.
When on long rides I go against the wind or up moderate hills, I sometimes
"play machine", which is a non intellecutal meditative activity. Body and
soul turns into: Movement. I breathe out on every seventh pedal stroke,
which means every other time with my left and right leg. And when breathing
out on 7, I "hammer" down the pedal, and the following six strokes are
practically just as fast, but with less effort. I shift my gear to find
the cadence, that allows "the hammer feeling" on every seventh stroke and
this gives me a feeling of at "natural" cadence.
To the body it feels natural to hold your breath or to breathe out when you
maximize effort (sprinting, hitting, jumping or lifting af very heavy load)
.. This jump, throw, kick, or hit function supplies "homo sapiens" with a
concentrated strength, that was necessary for survival (through escape or
attack) in the jungle. Sprining on every seventh stroke, does not produce
lactate acid, so I can go on for very long with a natural fast cadence.
When I start to "play machine", speed increases about 5 %, I've noticed,
staying just below my lactate treshold. My FlightDeck computer also
provides me with the virtual cadence, but I like the idea of getting the
feel of the right natural cadence, and though it might all be a product of
my imagination (which is good enough for me) it might also someday prove be
scientifically based, that this method results in the most efficient long
time cadence.

Ivar of Denmark
(P.S: It doesn't necessarily take a lot of my precious RAM to keep counting
to seven. It's just like picking up the rythm of "The Dave Brubeck Quartet"
in the back of my head.)


"Badger_South" skrev i en meddelelse
...

I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping cadence
high
going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a tune, or count reps
when the going gets tough and I start to sink below 65 or 70 (or lower).

I count to 50 and then try and take a deep sigh (more or less forceful
breathe out), and think 'sink/get centered', then do it again.

Have the experts pretty much decided that higher cadence is the way to go?
I realize we just discussed this here, in relation to energy conservation,
but we still see low cadence riding a lot in the pros during climbs. I'm
thinking maybe it's something that's just very hard to change once you've
developed your riding, and climbing style.

I haven't learned the 'quiet upper body' phase yet, but it seems like
that's next.

-B







Badger_South October 20th 04 12:01 AM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:22:12 GMT, wrote:

Badger South writes:

I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping
cadence high going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a
tune, or count reps when the going gets tough and I start to sink
below 65 or 70 (or lower).


I count to 50 and then try and take a deep sigh (more or less
forceful breathe out), and think 'sink/get centered', then do it
again.


Why do you care? From what you write, it seems you don't have any
real mountains to climb. In that case it isn't cadence that counts
but speed. Here you have a great opportunity to determine in which
gear you climb faster by clocking the same run repeatedly in a lower
and higher gear with statistical sampling. Just measure the ET.


OK, boss. I'll try that. Sometimes the 'obvious' isn't that apparent.

Have the experts pretty much decided that higher cadence is the way
to go? I realize we just discussed this here, in relation to energy
conservation, but we still see low cadence riding a lot in the pros
during climbs. I'm thinking maybe it's something that's just very
hard to change once you've developed your riding, and climbing
style.


I don't know that we have heard from any experts, although some have
claimed such skills. You can't tell what the credentials of posters
to this newsgroup are, only whether they make sense. Don't take oft
repeated "facts" as valid. They just get repeated here enough to
become absolute among the faithful.

I haven't learned the 'quiet upper body' phase yet, but it seems
like that's next.


That's called the "nothing moves but my legs" syndrome, a fetish among
beginners and only on short grades.


Hmm. Is it a syndrome or a phase? Carmichael talks about it...

I have ridden many long climbs in
the Alps and never seen anyone ride like that near the top although
some riders start out that way.


So you're a fan of the side-to-side full on body english method?

Get out and ride and don't worry about form. That will come naturally
if you hurry when riding. This is especially true if you ride with
someone who's a bit faster.


I worry about form b/c as a beginner, I'm looking for all the 'edge' I can
get, and anyway it's something to do while suffering.

Thx.

-B


Jobst Brandt




Badger_South October 20th 04 12:09 AM

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:56:41 +0200, "Ivar Hesselager"
wrote:

This may appear to be an idiocyncracy, so let's keep it between us, OK.
When on long rides I go against the wind or up moderate hills, I sometimes
"play machine", which is a non intellecutal meditative activity. Body and
soul turns into: Movement. I breathe out on every seventh pedal stroke,
which means every other time with my left and right leg. And when breathing
out on 7, I "hammer" down the pedal, and the following six strokes are
practically just as fast, but with less effort. I shift my gear to find
the cadence, that allows "the hammer feeling" on every seventh stroke and
this gives me a feeling of at "natural" cadence.
To the body it feels natural to hold your breath or to breathe out when you
maximize effort (sprinting, hitting, jumping or lifting af very heavy load)


Thanks. I'll try that, and some variations. This is what I'm talking about.

. This jump, throw, kick, or hit function supplies "homo sapiens" with a
concentrated strength, that was necessary for survival (through escape or
attack) in the jungle. Sprining on every seventh stroke, does not produce
lactate acid, so I can go on for very long with a natural fast cadence.
When I start to "play machine", speed increases about 5 %, I've noticed,
staying just below my lactate treshold. My FlightDeck computer also
provides me with the virtual cadence, but I like the idea of getting the
feel of the right natural cadence, and though it might all be a product of
my imagination (which is good enough for me) it might also someday prove be
scientifically based, that this method results in the most efficient long
time cadence.

Ivar of Denmark
(P.S: It doesn't necessarily take a lot of my precious RAM to keep counting
to seven. It's just like picking up the rythm of "The Dave Brubeck Quartet"
in the back of my head.)


Yeah, as the spots start to appear the available RAM seems to decrease, so
that's good.

-B



"Badger_South" skrev i en meddelelse
.. .

I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping cadence
high
going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a tune, or count reps
when the going gets tough and I start to sink below 65 or 70 (or lower).

I count to 50 and then try and take a deep sigh (more or less forceful
breathe out), and think 'sink/get centered', then do it again.

Have the experts pretty much decided that higher cadence is the way to go?
I realize we just discussed this here, in relation to energy conservation,
but we still see low cadence riding a lot in the pros during climbs. I'm
thinking maybe it's something that's just very hard to change once you've
developed your riding, and climbing style.

I haven't learned the 'quiet upper body' phase yet, but it seems like
that's next.

-B








[email protected] October 20th 04 12:18 AM

Badger South writes:

I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping
cadence high going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum
a tune, or count reps when the going gets tough and I start to
sink below 65 or 70 (or lower).


I count to 50 and then try and take a deep sigh (more or less
forceful breathe out), and think 'sink/get centered', then do it
again.


Why do you care? From what you write, it seems you don't have any
real mountains to climb. In that case it isn't cadence that counts
but speed. Here you have a great opportunity to determine in which
gear you climb faster by clocking the same run repeatedly in a
lower and higher gear with statistical sampling. Just measure the
ET.


OK, boss. I'll try that. Sometimes the 'obvious' isn't that apparent.


The obvious often gets clouded by hearing too much from people that
believe bicycling is all about technique rather than strength and
endurance. We see endless discussions on style that increases speed.
I've never seen any of this in use by folks who get more than 50 miles
from home. It's mostly practiced on the local "look at me" routes,
aka Foothill Expressway (Los Altos) around here.

Have the experts pretty much decided that higher cadence is the
way to go? I realize we just discussed this here, in relation to
energy conservation, but we still see low cadence riding a lot in
the pros during climbs. I'm thinking maybe it's something that's
just very hard to change once you've developed your riding, and
climbing style.


I don't know that we have heard from any experts, although some
have claimed such skills. You can't tell what the credentials of
posters to this newsgroup are, only whether they make sense. Don't
take oft repeated "facts" as valid. They just get repeated here
enough to become absolute among the faithful.


I haven't learned the 'quiet upper body' phase yet, but it seems
like that's next.


That's called the "nothing moves but my legs" syndrome, a fetish
among beginners and only on short grades.


Hmm. Is it a syndrome or a phase? Carmichael talks about it...


I have ridden many long climbs in the Alps and never seen anyone
ride like that near the top although some riders start out that
way.


So you're a fan of the side-to-side full on body english method?


I didn't say that. That style was best don by Roger Millar on hill
climbs. Ride what works for you, not what "they" do.

Get out and ride and don't worry about form. That will come
naturally if you hurry when riding. This is especially true if you
ride with someone who's a bit faster.


I worry about form b/c as a beginner, I'm looking for all the 'edge'
I can get, and anyway it's something to do while suffering.


There is not edge in form, only in fitness and endurance. Don't
suffer. You won't get any merit badges for it and it isn't any fun.
Fun is going places and seeing things:

http://tinyurl.com/adls

also see Tour of the Alps 2004:

rec.bicycles.rides

Jobst Brandt


R.White October 20th 04 12:51 AM

Badger_South wrote in message . ..
I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping cadence high
going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a tune, or count reps
when the going gets tough and I start to sink below 65 or 70 (or lower).


Try cutting off a few truckers and they chase you up the hill.

Terry Morse October 20th 04 02:22 AM

Badger_South wrote:

I'm wondering if there are any good tips out there for keeping cadence high
going up moderate hills. I find I really have to hum a tune, or count reps
when the going gets tough and I start to sink below 65 or 70 (or lower).


I think the best way to get your cadence up on the hills is to work
on high cadence on the flats. Once you're comfortable with
maintaining a cadence without thinking about it, doing it on the
hills will become second nature.

If the going gets tough and you find your cadence dropping below
where you want it to be, shift down. If you're out of gears, lower
ones can be had from bike shops.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/


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