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Bob M September 12th 03 06:59 PM

Riding a century
 
How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because my
ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm thinking of
riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides have been 55
miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two weeks ago)...
I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days being about 20 miles a
day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?

Thanks.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

Ron Hardin September 12th 03 07:45 PM

Riding a century
 
I've done centuries accidentally just running diverse errands. A couple
of 25-mile distant round trips and there you are. It still takes a while
though.

Numb butt or hands is the most likely indicator of having done one by
mistake.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

David L. Johnson September 12th 03 09:20 PM

Riding a century
 
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:59:21 +0000, Bob M wrote:

How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because
my ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm thinking
of riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides have been 55
miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two weeks

ago)...

If these represent high-water marks for you, then I would be uncomfortable
recommending that you ride a century. I'd like to see you have some 75+
mile rides in your legs first.

If, though, the ride is fairly flat you might be OK. Your butt will be
sore, as will your hands, but you will be OK. If, on the other hand, it
is quite hilly, you should consider seriously whether or not this would be
fun for you.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | We have a record of conquest, colonization and expansion
_`\(,_ | unequalled by any people in the Nineteenth Century. We are not
(_)/ (_) | to be curbed now. --Henry Cabot Lodge, 1895



Bob M September 12th 03 09:34 PM

Riding a century
 
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:59:21 GMT, Bob M wrote:

How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because
my ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm
thinking of riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides
have been 55 miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two
weeks ago)... I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days being
about 20 miles a day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?

Thanks.


Well, I've found out that the 100km ride is about 56 miles, with 4,900 feet
of climbing, while the 100 mile ride is about 92 miles with 7,400 feet of
climbing. I rode 55 miles last week, but I don't know how much climbing
there was, although there's a lot. So, I'll probably stick to the 56
miles, especially if it rains.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

bgaudet0801 September 12th 03 09:42 PM

Riding a century
 

"Bob M" wrote in message
...
How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because

my
ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm thinking of
riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides have been 55
miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two weeks ago)...
I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days being about 20 miles a
day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?


Cetaris paribus I wouldn't consider going from 55 miles to 100 miles too
much of a leap if you're comfortable at 55. [you're not completely exhausted
and drained afterwards] But I'd still recommend you leave the day free for
recuperation.

--
'Sell your sin
Just cash in' -Jewell



Bob M September 12th 03 09:57 PM

Riding a century
 
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:42:19 GMT, bgaudet0801
wrote:


"Bob M" wrote in message
...
How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because

my
ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm thinking
of
riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides have been 55
miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two weeks ago)
...
I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days being about 20 miles a
day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?


Cetaris paribus I wouldn't consider going from 55 miles to 100 miles too
much of a leap if you're comfortable at 55. [you're not completely
exhausted
and drained afterwards] But I'd still recommend you leave the day free
for
recuperation.

--
'Sell your sin
Just cash in' -Jewell




Thanks. I'm definitely thinking about the 100 miles, but it is (I found
out) another 2,400 feet of climbing. If it rains (which it's supposed to --
as of today, but this is New England, and the forecast changes hourly),
then I'll probably ride the 100km.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

Harris September 12th 03 10:33 PM

Riding a century
 

"Bob M" wrote:

How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because

my
ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm thinking of
riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides have been 55
miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two weeks ago)...
I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days being about 20 miles a
day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?


You might be able to complete it, but I doubt you would enjoy it. How did
you feel at the end of the 50 miler? Could you have done it again when you
got to the end?

Generally, you want to do several rides of 50 miles, and at least one
around 75-80 miles before attempting a century.

It seems to me that 100k (62 miles) would be the perfect ride for you at
this point. Then maybe 75 miles the following weekend, and THEN 100 miles
the weekend after that.

Good luck,
Art Harris



Bob M September 12th 03 10:37 PM

Riding a century
 
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:33:03 GMT, Harris wrote:


"Bob M" wrote:

How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because

my
ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm thinking
of
riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides have been 55
miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two weeks ago)
...
I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days being about 20 miles a
day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?


You might be able to complete it, but I doubt you would enjoy it. How did
you feel at the end of the 50 miler? Could you have done it again when
you
got to the end?

Generally, you want to do several rides of 50 miles, and at least one
around 75-80 miles before attempting a century.

It seems to me that 100k (62 miles) would be the perfect ride for you at
this point. Then maybe 75 miles the following weekend, and THEN 100 miles
the weekend after that.

Good luck,
Art Harris




Thanks, that was what I was aiming for -- I have a 100km this weekend, then
a ride that's 55 Saturday and 60 Sunday, then I was thinking one more
longer ride, then a century. The only problem is that the centuries are
basically over in New England in September. So, I'll have to ride one
myself (which isn't bad, but it's nice to have support and bathrooms).

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

Buck September 12th 03 10:39 PM

Riding a century
 
"Bob M" wrote in message
...
How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because

my
ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm thinking of
riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides have been 55
miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two weeks ago)...
I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days being about 20 miles a
day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?



Bob,

My training regimen for my first almost double century (100 miles day one,
75 day two, mostly flat day one, rolling hills day two) was three months of
one fast 30 miler every weekend added to my normal daily commute. Keep in
mind that I had been commuting for several years by this point and was in
good shape overall. The point is that you can probably handle it if you are
in decent shape.

Good Luck,
Buck



G. Huang September 12th 03 10:50 PM

Riding a century
 
Bob M wrote:
How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because
my ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm
thinking of riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides
have been 55 miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles
(two weeks ago)... I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days
being about 20 miles a day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?


If you felt ok and no aching of any kind after those 50mi rides, then I
would think you probably can do 100mi. Any minor discomfort in a short
ride will amplify by an order of magnitude on a century ride. So make
sure the seat and handlebar are adjusted optimaly before the ride. And
try to go a little slower in the first half.


Mike Jacoubowsky September 13th 03 05:48 AM

Riding a century
 
Thanks, that was what I was aiming for -- I have a 100km this weekend,
then
a ride that's 55 Saturday and 60 Sunday, then I was thinking one more
longer ride, then a century. The only problem is that the centuries are
basically over in New England in September. So, I'll have to ride one
myself (which isn't bad, but it's nice to have support and bathrooms).


And now for a dissenting opinion...

In general, I find that people are able to easily ride maybe 30% over what
they're used to on a reasonably-well-supported and popular (meaning lots of
riders) century. Much of physical effort is actually mental, and the
fun/euphoria of riding with a whole lot of other people, and not having to
worry about running out of food & water etc., makes the miles pass by a
whole lot more quickly and enjoyably. Your mileage may vary, but as a
general guideline, an organized century is not the worst place to try and
stretch your reach a bit.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com



Alfred Klek September 13th 03 07:26 AM

Riding a century
 
Good question. Unfortunately, I don't know. There's no route posted. I
ride in a hilly area, in fact my ride is pretty much all hills. I do know
that we're starting on the coast of CT, so unless the route is along the
coast, there's going to be hills.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply


Hey hey, i'm from CT. well, the coast is flat as is much of the central
section of the state, as you go north anywheres else there are hills. since
CT is pretty small, it's going to be pretty hard to make a flat century.
The good part is that it's pretty hard to ride 100 miles in CT without it
being beautiful for most of it. there's a few ugly cities but
proportionally more pretty stuff especially in the northern corners (i used
to live in Mansfield in the "quiet corner" very pretty and nice riding).
Where are you riding? Where are you from? there's a good chance you
already are used to the extremes of CT topographyif you're from here, it's
pretty consistant once you get about 10 miles from the shore. just as an
offhand estimate you're probably looking at rolling hills maxing out in the
north at maybe 200 ft. vertical displacement and pretty steep. The hardest
thing i've found about riding long distances in those hills is that they
just keep coming, one after another forever and ever. as always the fight
is mental, not physical. slap it in a low gear and spin up to the top if
you have to and take them in stride. best of luck
Alfred



H. M. Leary September 13th 03 03:07 PM

Riding a century
 
In article ,
Bob M wrote:

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:59:21 GMT, Bob M wrote:

How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because
my ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm
thinking of riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides
have been 55 miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles (two
weeks ago)... I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days being
about 20 miles a day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?

Thanks.


Well, I've found out that the 100km ride is about 56 miles, with 4,900 feet
of climbing, while the 100 mile ride is about 92 miles with 7,400 feet of
climbing. I rode 55 miles last week, but I don't know how much climbing
there was, although there's a lot. So, I'll probably stick to the 56
miles, especially if it rains.


Picking nits:

100km = 62.093 miles
100miles = a century, not 92miles

Enjoy the ride.

Has anyone seen my Gore-Tex socks???

HAND

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

JC Henry September 13th 03 03:45 PM

Riding a century
 
Did my first century yesterday. It was a very flat paved trail
(converted train "rail" track), but I did it on a fat tire offroad bike.
My previous best distance wise was 60 miles. I read somewhere it's best
to a 80 mile run before going to 100 but after 80 I could start to smell
the 100 so I just bit it and did the last 20.



--
--------------------------

Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

Dan Cosley September 13th 03 05:24 PM

Riding a century
 
In article , JC Henry wrote:
Did my first century yesterday. It was a very flat paved trail
(converted train "rail" track), but I did it on a fat tire offroad bike.
My previous best distance wise was 60 miles. I read somewhere it's best
to a 80 mile run before going to 100 but after 80 I could start to smell
the 100 so I just bit it and did the last 20.


So the big question: how do you feel today?

-- Dan

--
Dan Cosley * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/)
GroupLens Research Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372)
*** Just a foot soldier in the Army of Truth ***

David L. Johnson September 13th 03 05:35 PM

Riding a century
 
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 04:48:00 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Thanks, that was what I was aiming for -- I have a 100km this weekend,

then
a ride that's 55 Saturday and 60 Sunday, then I was thinking one more
longer ride, then a century. The only problem is that the centuries are
basically over in New England in September. So, I'll have to ride one
myself (which isn't bad, but it's nice to have support and bathrooms).


And now for a dissenting opinion...


Dissenting?

In general, I find that people are able to easily ride maybe 30% over what
they're used to on a reasonably-well-supported and popular (meaning lots
of riders) century.


I'd agree with that. That's why I expressed the hope that the OP could
get some 75+ mile rides in before the century. Going from 50 to 100 is a
big jump, though. Doable if the century is flat, but still tough on the
butt and hands -- and tough on the spirit.

*Your mileage may vary, but as a
general guideline, an organized century is not the worst place to try and
stretch your reach a bit.


True.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |



Coal Porter September 14th 03 01:16 AM

Riding a century
 
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:11:40 GMT, Bob M wrote:

|On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:02:10 +0000 (UTC), Ken wrote:
|
| Bob M wrote in
| :
| How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask because
| my ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles. I'm
| thinking of riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long rides
| have been 55 miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45 miles
| (two weeks ago)... I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3 days
| being about 20 miles
| a day. Is this enough riding to ride 100 miles?
|
| How hilly is the 100 miles? Most of the centuries around where I live
| have 6000 feet or more of climbing, which could make them difficult for
| someone doing 50 mile rides with much less climbing. If the century is
| flat, you should have no problem if you pace yourself.
|
|
|Good question. Unfortunately, I don't know. There's no route posted. I
|ride in a hilly area, in fact my ride is pretty much all hills. I do know
|that we're starting on the coast of CT, so unless the route is along the
|coast, there's going to be hills.

You're riding in the Harvest Rides, aren't you? I did the markers for
a segment of the route today. The 100k goes up into Bethel and comes
back via 58, cuts in along the reserviors and back to the coast via
Redding Rd. THe 100 miler adds a 30 mile or so section up into Wilton
on 33 and then back down before doing the 100k thing into Bethel and
back via 58 et al. Unfortunately you can't decide to do the 100 miler
in-route because the segment that makes it longer is added at about
the 8 mile point.

I think you do enough miles to do the 100miler but frankly I'm
concerned about the weather. It looks like it's going to rain some.
Take both maps and see how warm it is. It's not bad if it's just
drizzling but if it's a little chilly too, that's not a great
combination.

See how you feel. And good luck with the ride(even if it's not this
oneg).

-c.porter.


Pat September 14th 03 08:05 PM

Riding a century
 
x-no-archive:yes


Dissenting because there were so many responses that expressed concern

about
being able to do a century... some of which almost sounded like you ought

to
be able to ride 99 miles on your own before trying to attempt one! A

slight
exaggeration, of course...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles


I think there has been too much emphasis on riding a long ride before
attempting the 100 miles. I think people are ignoring the mental aspect of
it: even strategy, planning, pacing, and eating. Before I did the first of
my 3 centuries, I had only ridden 65 miles at one time. Most of my rides
were about 30 miles in length. It takes mental determination, too.

Pat in TX



Damian Harvey September 15th 03 06:13 AM

Riding a century
 
Pat wrote:
I think there has been too much emphasis on riding a long ride before
attempting the 100 miles. I think people are ignoring the mental aspect of
it: even strategy, planning, pacing, and eating. Before I did the first of
my 3 centuries, I had only ridden 65 miles at one time. Most of my rides
were about 30 miles in length. It takes mental determination, too.

Pat in TX


I had only ridden maybe 40km before going on mine. Of course it wasn't
meant to be a 160k ride rather 120 but it's 20km from my house to the
start. I'm determined not to look like a slacker in front of all those
sexy women in lycra too. This might sound a bit sick but also I've got
extra incentive out on a long ride whenever I pass someone, it means I'm
not the slowest. I don't care about being the fastest but as long as
there's someone out there worse than me I'm happy.

--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.


Bob M September 15th 03 03:15 PM

Riding a century
 
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:07:58 GMT, H. M. Leary
wrote:

In article ,
Bob M wrote:

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:59:21 GMT, Bob M wrote:

How far do people generally ride before riding a century? I ask

because my ride this Sunday is 100km, but I can also ride 100 miles.
I'm thinking of riding the 100 miles instead of the 100km. My long
rides have been 55 miles (last week), 50 miles (the week before), 45
miles (two weeks ago)... I only ride about 4 days a week, the other 3
days being about 20 miles a day. Is this enough riding to ride 100
miles?

Thanks.


Well, I've found out that the 100km ride is about 56 miles, with 4,900
feet of climbing, while the 100 mile ride is about 92 miles with 7,400
feet of climbing. I rode 55 miles last week, but I don't know how much
climbing there was, although there's a lot. So, I'll probably stick to
the 56 miles, especially if it rains.


Picking nits:

100km = 62.093 miles
100miles = a century, not 92miles

Enjoy the ride.

Has anyone seen my Gore-Tex socks???

HAND


I realize that. I got confused looking at the published maps of the rides -
- I thought those numbers were the listed lengths. They 100km ended up
being about 65 miles (although I rode 69) and the 100 miler ended up being
103 miles. It's kinda hard to make a ride that's exactly 100 miles,
especially in the northeast.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

Pat September 15th 03 03:59 PM

Riding a century
 
x-no-archive:yes


I had only ridden maybe 40km before going on mine. Of course it wasn't
meant to be a 160k ride rather 120 but it's 20km from my house to the
start. I'm determined not to look like a slacker in front of all those
sexy women in lycra too. This might sound a bit sick but also I've got
extra incentive out on a long ride whenever I pass someone, it means I'm
not the slowest. I don't care about being the fastest but as long as
there's someone out there worse than me I'm happy.

--
Cheers
Damian Harvey


Oh yes, I do know what you mean! On my first 100K two years ago, I heard
the volunteer on his walkie-talkie mention that he was getting ready to
dismantle his rest stop because the last of the riders were there now. I
looked around and saw a dozen people--and me! I immediately jumped up and
rode off. Then, on my second 100 mile ride in 2001, I heard a volunteer
saying that all of the rest stops up to their rest stop had already been
dismantled. Yikes! Not only did I jump on my bike, but I passed 6 people
who had left that rest stop much earlier. On Saturday, I was doing a 100K
and mentally counting all the people behind me (at least 30-50) and all the
people I passed in the last few miles. I finished strong and around 18 Mph
while many of the ones I passed were weaving all over the road.

Pat in TX



Bob M September 15th 03 04:00 PM

Riding a century -- Update
 
Well, I rode the 100km, which ended up being 69 miles due to my missing a
few turns. I felt fine at the end, even though my HR averaged 85 % of my
max HR for the 5 hours, 8 minutes I rode (4 hours, 45 minutes of saddle
time). I believe I could've rode the 100 miles, but it poured during my
ride, and it really poured when I was driving home. Of course, if I made
63 miles into 69 miles, maybe I would've made 102 miles into 120, which
might've been a bit too much.
Thanks for the help!
-- Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

Pat September 15th 03 10:05 PM

Riding a century -- Update
 
x-no-archive:yes

Well, I rode the 100km, which ended up being 69 miles due to my missing a
few turns. I felt fine at the end, even though my HR averaged 85 % of my
max HR for the 5 hours, 8 minutes I rode (4 hours, 45 minutes of saddle
time). I believe I could've rode the 100 miles, but it poured during my
ride, and it really poured when I was driving home. Of course, if I made
63 miles into 69 miles, maybe I would've made 102 miles into 120, which
might've been a bit too much.
Thanks for the help!
-- Bob M in CT



I have discovered that if you don't feed totally wiped out at the end of the
ride, then you could have gone farther. If you feel somehow "cheated" that
the ride was over 'way too soon--then you certainly should have gone
farther. I felt this way earlier this summer after going 40 miles. I kicked
myself all the way home wishing I had gone ahead and ridden the 100K
instead.

Pat in TX



Bob M September 15th 03 10:24 PM

Riding a century -- Update
 
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:05:40 -0500, Pat wrote:

x-no-archive:yes

Well, I rode the 100km, which ended up being 69 miles due to my missing
a
few turns. I felt fine at the end, even though my HR averaged 85 % of
my
max HR for the 5 hours, 8 minutes I rode (4 hours, 45 minutes of saddle
time). I believe I could've rode the 100 miles, but it poured during my
ride, and it really poured when I was driving home. Of course, if I
made
63 miles into 69 miles, maybe I would've made 102 miles into 120, which
might've been a bit too much.
Thanks for the help!
-- Bob M in CT



I have discovered that if you don't feed totally wiped out at the end of
the
ride, then you could have gone farther. If you feel somehow "cheated"
that
the ride was over 'way too soon--then you certainly should have gone
farther. I felt this way earlier this summer after going 40 miles. I
kicked
myself all the way home wishing I had gone ahead and ridden the 100K
instead.

Pat in TX




I definitely could've gone farther, especially if I were to pay attention
to my HR monitor. I tried to keep up with people who were faster than I,
and I should've just let 'em go. Also, after the downpour, I put the pedal
to the metal so that I could get to the finish faster.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

[email protected] October 11th 03 01:54 AM

Riding a century
 
Pat wrote:

: I think there has been too much emphasis on riding a long ride before
: attempting the 100 miles. I think people are ignoring the mental aspect of
: it: even strategy, planning, pacing, and eating. Before I did the first of
: my 3 centuries, I had only ridden 65 miles at one time. Most of my rides
: were about 30 miles in length. It takes mental determination, too.

Pacing and eating are very important - that is why one needs the
65 mile training rides before the event :-)

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

Pat October 11th 03 11:10 PM

Riding a century
 

Pat wrote:

: I think there has been too much emphasis on riding a long ride before
: attempting the 100 miles. I think people are ignoring the mental aspect

of
: it: even strategy, planning, pacing, and eating. Before I did the first

of
: my 3 centuries, I had only ridden 65 miles at one time. Most of my rides
: were about 30 miles in length. It takes mental determination, too.




Pacing and eating are very important - that is why one needs the
65 mile training rides before the event :-)

--
Risto Varanka


But, when you are riding with a lot of people, the pacing sort of takes care
of itself (and the drafting helps, too). As for eating, I am on the Atkins
diet---that means cutting out a lot of carbs. So, I did not carbo load. My
only concession to the length of the ride was to drink the Gatorade during
the ride, as well as eat some fruit. Carbo loading is 'way over valued, in
my experience.

Pat in TX



[email protected] October 12th 03 09:36 PM

Riding a century
 
Pat wrote:

: Pacing and eating are very important - that is why one needs the
: 65 mile training rides before the event :-)
:
: --
: Risto Varanka

: But, when you are riding with a lot of people, the pacing sort of takes care
: of itself (and the drafting helps, too).

Supposing they put in the effort to learn pacing ;)

: diet---that means cutting out a lot of carbs. So, I did not carbo load. My
: only concession to the length of the ride was to drink the Gatorade during
: the ride, as well as eat some fruit. Carbo loading is 'way over valued, in
: my experience.

I don't think many people carbo load for their weekly 60 mile
training ride :-, You could be right about overvaluation - it
takes some practice anyway, the boost might not be that big and
it's a one-shot thing...

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi


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