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-   -   SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!! (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=256494)

[email protected] October 1st 18 11:14 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike

The beloved Magicshine brings us what we finally need in bike lights. Thanks to all the gods. 6500 lumens! I think you can have either 5000 or 1500 or all 6500 lumens. Thankfully now we will not only be able to blind everyone else on the road or trail, but we can now cause their eyeballs to burst into flames and maybe hopefully their heads will also explode. Yeah!!!!!!

I don't know why "sms" did not report this in his post about Interbike. This has to be the most important thing to ever come from Interbike. He is letting us down.

Here is the post from the article:
"This latest offering from Magicshine incorporates everything they have learned about MTB lights over the years. The Monteer 6500 is MTB headlight designed for the most serious mountain biking enthusiasts, downhill racers and those who want nothing less than professional grade lighting system that can outshine the landing light on a passenger airliner.
A max actual output of 6500 lumens is cranked out by 3x CREE XHP 50.2 and 2x XM-L2 LEDs. Like the Eagle series MTB headlights, Monteer 6500 is designed with multiple beam patterns modes, the XHP50.2 will put out a max of 5000 lumens of flood light, while the bottom row of XM-L2s shoots into the distance with up to 1500 lumens."

It even has "CREE XHP and XM-L2 LEDs". So you know its got to be great. I bet it even meets or exceeds that German bicycle light standard.

Jeff Liebermann October 2nd 18 02:29 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 15:14:18 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike


A max actual output of 6500 lumens is cranked out by 3x CREE XHP 50.2
and 2x XM-L2 LEDs. Like the Eagle series MTB headlights, Monteer 6500
is designed with multiple beam patterns modes, the XHP50.2 will put
out a max of 5000 lumens of flood light, while the bottom row of XM-L2s
shoots into the distance with up to 1500 lumens."


Only $350.
https://magicshine.us/product/monteer-6500-mtb-headlight/
"Six cell battery pack uses super high capacity 18650 cells
for a 10500 mAh total."

Ok, let's do the math.

Cree XHP 50.2 LED specs:
https://www.cree.com/led-components/products/xlamp-leds-arrays/xlamp-xhp50-2
https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/ds-XHP502.pdf
The LED can be wired for either 6 or 12V.

If I use an initial voltage of the cells at 3.85V, 3 cells = 11.6V,
which is close to the maximum operating voltage and the end of the
graph on Pg 8. At 11.6V, it draws 1.5 amps per LED and produces 180%
of rated output (Pg 9) or:
1.8 * 1000 lumens @85C = 1800 lumens
Three of these LED's will produce a total of 5,400 lumens. Close
enough to the spec methinks.

Cree XM-L2 LED specs:
https://www.cree.com/led-components/products/xlamp-leds-discrete/xlamp-xm-l2
https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/XLampXML2.pdf
My guess(tm) is that these are running on one cell with a series
current regulator. At 3.85V/cell, the current could be set to
anywhere. So, doing this backwards, in order to produce 750 lumens
per LED, each LED would need to draw:
750 / 280 = 268% of rated output
From the graph on Pg 6, that requires 2.3 amps, which is getting a bit
close to the absolute max of 3.0A/LED. Total drain for both XM-L2
LED's is 4.6 amps.

Total current with all the LED's on is:
4.5A = 4.6A = 9.1 amps
Total dissipation is:
(11.6v * 4.5A) + (3.85v * 4.6A) = 71 watts

Let's see how long it will run at full power.
"Burn time ranges from 1.2H to 82H depending on modes"
I'll assume the best 2200 ma-hr cells. That would be:
3.85v * 2.2amp-hrs * 6 cells = 50.8 watt-hrs
which means the battery will last:
71 watts / 50.8 watt-hrs = 1.4 hrs
That also works as advertised.

The LED's can (probably) deliver the specified 6500 lumens total, but
the 71 watts of heat produced by the LED's will need to be radiated or
conducted somewhere. I don't see any cooling system on the package.
Building it out of mostly aluminum doesn't work without some kind of
air flow:
"To maximize heat dissipating potential, light housing has
been redesigned with hard anodized aluminum which covers
almost the entire light body."
Swell, no fins to increase surface area.

Let's see what the package can do as a heat sink.
Latent heat for aluminum is 0.900 Joules/gm-K.
The light weighs 142 grams, which I'll assume is mostly aluminum.
The light dissipates 71 watts with all the LED's turned on.
I would guess that 75C would be uncomfortably warm for both the
electronics and the bicycle rider. That's a temp rise of 50C (50K).
Joules = Watts * seconds = 71 watts * seconds. Therefo
0.900 = 71 * seconds / (142 * 50)
Time(sec) = 900 seconds = 15 min
Not too horrible. One has 15 minutes of full brightness lighting, in
still air, before the LED's burn your hand or cause a thermal
shutdown.

When there's air flow, there will be more cooling and therefore take
longer to get hot.
The dimensions are 72 * 42 * 44 mm. Surface area is roughly:
(2 * (72*42/2)) + (2 * (42*44)) + (44 * 72)
3,000 + 3,700 + 3,200 = 9,900 mm^2
I'll finish this later as I need to do something else right now.

In my never humble opinion, the specs are quite real, but I have my
doubts about the ability the aluminum heat sink to remove the heat
produced. It's going to get very hot running at full power.

I bet it even meets or exceeds that German bicycle light standard.


Probably true because StVZO only sets the minimum requirements.
However if the spec has a maximum output, so as not to blind oncoming
traffic, it would probably fail. There was a proposal to limit
brigtness to 2.0 lux at 10 meters at eye level to reduce blinding
oncoming drivers and riders, but I don't know if that was added.
A bit of StVZO analysis:
https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting_analyse/verkeersregels/de_stvzo/index_en.html


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Emanuel Berg[_2_] October 2nd 18 03:18 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Ok, let's do the math.


I put a flashlight to the handlebars the other
day with re-openable cable ties. It seems to
work OK, a pretty solid fix. I cut the cable
ties with a combination plier so it looks neat
as well.

The flashlight is 3*AAA batteries with
9 diodes. How many lumens is that, do
you think?

I think I should get a proper bicycle light
soon tho.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Frank Krygowski[_4_] October 2nd 18 03:35 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/1/2018 6:14 PM, wrote:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike

The beloved Magicshine brings us what we finally need in bike lights. Thanks to all the gods. 6500 lumens!


6500 lumens? But... but... is that safe enough?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski[_4_] October 2nd 18 03:37 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/1/2018 10:18 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Ok, let's do the math.


I put a flashlight to the handlebars the other
day with re-openable cable ties. It seems to
work OK, a pretty solid fix. I cut the cable
ties with a combination plier so it looks neat
as well.

The flashlight is 3*AAA batteries with
9 diodes. How many lumens is that, do
you think?

I think I should get a proper bicycle light
soon tho.


One person who posts here spent years claiming that super-bright LED
flashlights were better than bike headlights.

Eventually, for Christmas I was given such a flashlight. It was bright
enough that as I drove a freeway on a dark night, it clearly illuminated
freeway signs overhead.

But it was still a terrible bike headlight. You need more than
brightness. You need proper optics, designed for the road. A circular
beam cannot do that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

John B. Slocomb October 2nd 18 03:50 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 22:37:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/1/2018 10:18 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Ok, let's do the math.


I put a flashlight to the handlebars the other
day with re-openable cable ties. It seems to
work OK, a pretty solid fix. I cut the cable
ties with a combination plier so it looks neat
as well.

The flashlight is 3*AAA batteries with
9 diodes. How many lumens is that, do
you think?

I think I should get a proper bicycle light
soon tho.


One person who posts here spent years claiming that super-bright LED
flashlights were better than bike headlights.

Eventually, for Christmas I was given such a flashlight. It was bright
enough that as I drove a freeway on a dark night, it clearly illuminated
freeway signs overhead.

But it was still a terrible bike headlight. You need more than
brightness. You need proper optics, designed for the road. A circular
beam cannot do that.


Come now, a flashlight works perfectly well ... just ride slower :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

Jeff Liebermann October 2nd 18 06:40 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 04:18:35 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Ok, let's do the math.


I put a flashlight to the handlebars the other
day with re-openable cable ties. It seems to
work OK, a pretty solid fix. I cut the cable
ties with a combination plier so it looks neat
as well.

The flashlight is 3*AAA batteries with
9 diodes. How many lumens is that, do
you think?


Not enough info. Measure the current drain from the battery and I'll
give you a good guess(tm). I just happen to have a similar flashlight
handy, so I measured mine at about 160 ma. At 4.5V, that's 720 mw.
Generic T1(3mm) white LED's typically have an efficacy of about 20
lumens/watt. So the output would be:
0.720 watts * 20 lumens/watt = 14 lumens
I did a quick double check with my lux meter and measured 16 lumens.

Here's how it's done:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/UJdJQFTDgl8/NgOZUloVCwAJ
I was going to turn it into a web page, but after the rather
discouraging response I got from this newsgroup and two other forums,
I decided I had better things to do.

AAA Alkaline cells run about 900 ma-hr capacity, so at 720 ma, you get
maybe 1.3 hrs of operation.

I think I should get a proper bicycle light
soon tho.


Yep, good idea:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/bicycle-flashlight.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Sepp Ruf October 2nd 18 03:09 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, " wrote:

http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike


JFTR, that's not an actual review, it's "sponsored content."

A max actual output of 6500 lumens is cranked out by 3x CREE XHP 50.2
and 2x XM-L2 LEDs. Like the Eagle series MTB headlights, Monteer 6500
is designed with multiple beam patterns modes, the XHP50.2 will put
out a max of 5000 lumens of flood light, while the bottom row of XM-L2s
shoots into the distance with up to 1500 lumens."


Only $350.
https://magicshine.us/product/monteer-6500-mtb-headlight/
"Six cell battery pack uses super high capacity 18650 cells
for a 10500 mAh total."

Ok, let's do the math.


[tech calculations snipped]

In my never humble opinion, the specs are quite real, but I have my
doubts about the ability the aluminum heat sink to remove the heat
produced. It's going to get very hot running at full power.


Even on full power, the rather primitive
http://www.magicshine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/MONTEER-6500-r-13-1.jpg
20 & 30 degrees beam delivers only half the 55,000 cd punch of the similar
looking Lupine Alpha, the latter being three times as expensive, though.
Nowhere close to an airliner landing beam's candlepower, of course, in
contrast to what is purported by Francis Cashedo's marketing hyperbole.

I bet it even meets or exceeds that German bicycle light standard.


And I doubt it would even meet the optical part of the simpler high-beam
standard.

Probably true because StVZO only sets the minimum requirements.
However if the spec has a maximum output, so as not to blind oncoming
traffic, it would probably fail. There was a proposal to limit
brigtness to 2.0 lux at 10 meters at eye level to reduce blinding
oncoming drivers and riders, but I don't know if that was added.


Decades ago, due to the introduction of those crazy bright, 36 lm, 2.4 W
halogen bulbs. The previous limit was 0.7 lx.

A bit of StVZO analysis:

https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting_analyse/verkeersregels/de_stvzo/index_en.html


No offense, but I'd characterize that as some facts and analysis, more
unrestrained interpretation and speculation, swamped in a stream of
consciousness, muddled by a lack of legal logic, trilingual challenges,
unfamiliarity with technical concepts and comparable automotive standards.
Worst of all, it's unlikely to get better by adding yet another source of
information or correction.

JBeattie October 2nd 18 05:29 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 7:09:13 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, " wrote:

http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike


JFTR, that's not an actual review, it's "sponsored content."

A max actual output of 6500 lumens is cranked out by 3x CREE XHP 50.2
and 2x XM-L2 LEDs. Like the Eagle series MTB headlights, Monteer 6500
is designed with multiple beam patterns modes, the XHP50.2 will put
out a max of 5000 lumens of flood light, while the bottom row of XM-L2s
shoots into the distance with up to 1500 lumens."


Only $350.
https://magicshine.us/product/monteer-6500-mtb-headlight/
"Six cell battery pack uses super high capacity 18650 cells
for a 10500 mAh total."

Ok, let's do the math.


[tech calculations snipped]

In my never humble opinion, the specs are quite real, but I have my
doubts about the ability the aluminum heat sink to remove the heat
produced. It's going to get very hot running at full power.


Even on full power, the rather primitive
http://www.magicshine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/MONTEER-6500-r-13-1.jpg
20 & 30 degrees beam delivers only half the 55,000 cd punch of the similar
looking Lupine Alpha, the latter being three times as expensive, though.
Nowhere close to an airliner landing beam's candlepower, of course, in
contrast to what is purported by Francis Cashedo's marketing hyperbole.

I bet it even meets or exceeds that German bicycle light standard.


And I doubt it would even meet the optical part of the simpler high-beam
standard.

Probably true because StVZO only sets the minimum requirements.
However if the spec has a maximum output, so as not to blind oncoming
traffic, it would probably fail. There was a proposal to limit
brigtness to 2.0 lux at 10 meters at eye level to reduce blinding
oncoming drivers and riders, but I don't know if that was added.


Decades ago, due to the introduction of those crazy bright, 36 lm, 2.4 W
halogen bulbs. The previous limit was 0.7 lx.

A bit of StVZO analysis:

https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting_analyse/verkeersregels/de_stvzo/index_en.html


No offense, but I'd characterize that as some facts and analysis, more
unrestrained interpretation and speculation, swamped in a stream of
consciousness, muddled by a lack of legal logic, trilingual challenges,
unfamiliarity with technical concepts and comparable automotive standards.
Worst of all, it's unlikely to get better by adding yet another source of
information or correction.


StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.

AMuzi October 2nd 18 06:09 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 7:09:13 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, " wrote:

http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike


JFTR, that's not an actual review, it's "sponsored content."

A max actual output of 6500 lumens is cranked out by 3x CREE XHP 50.2
and 2x XM-L2 LEDs. Like the Eagle series MTB headlights, Monteer 6500
is designed with multiple beam patterns modes, the XHP50.2 will put
out a max of 5000 lumens of flood light, while the bottom row of XM-L2s
shoots into the distance with up to 1500 lumens."

Only $350.
https://magicshine.us/product/monteer-6500-mtb-headlight/
"Six cell battery pack uses super high capacity 18650 cells
for a 10500 mAh total."

Ok, let's do the math.


[tech calculations snipped]

In my never humble opinion, the specs are quite real, but I have my
doubts about the ability the aluminum heat sink to remove the heat
produced. It's going to get very hot running at full power.


Even on full power, the rather primitive
http://www.magicshine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/MONTEER-6500-r-13-1.jpg
20 & 30 degrees beam delivers only half the 55,000 cd punch of the similar
looking Lupine Alpha, the latter being three times as expensive, though.
Nowhere close to an airliner landing beam's candlepower, of course, in
contrast to what is purported by Francis Cashedo's marketing hyperbole.

I bet it even meets or exceeds that German bicycle light standard.


And I doubt it would even meet the optical part of the simpler high-beam
standard.

Probably true because StVZO only sets the minimum requirements.
However if the spec has a maximum output, so as not to blind oncoming
traffic, it would probably fail. There was a proposal to limit
brigtness to 2.0 lux at 10 meters at eye level to reduce blinding
oncoming drivers and riders, but I don't know if that was added.


Decades ago, due to the introduction of those crazy bright, 36 lm, 2.4 W
halogen bulbs. The previous limit was 0.7 lx.

A bit of StVZO analysis:

https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting_analyse/verkeersregels/de_stvzo/index_en.html


No offense, but I'd characterize that as some facts and analysis, more
unrestrained interpretation and speculation, swamped in a stream of
consciousness, muddled by a lack of legal logic, trilingual challenges,
unfamiliarity with technical concepts and comparable automotive standards.
Worst of all, it's unlikely to get better by adding yet another source of
information or correction.


StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



Sir Ridesalot October 2nd 18 08:32 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers

AMuzi October 2nd 18 09:51 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



Sir Ridesalot October 2nd 18 10:04 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks. That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the roads.

Cheers

Cheers

Emanuel Berg[_2_] October 3rd 18 03:17 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
Today I was once again in the accursed
hardware store, where I acquired a flashlight,
with the following specification:

FL 1 Standard (?)
18h
38lm
40m (range)
400cd (?)

Unlike the other previously mentioned in the
thread, which had 9 diodes and was suspected to
shine at 16lm, this is considerably stronger at
38, with only one LED, while also using
3*AAA batteries.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

JBeattie October 3rd 18 05:16 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:04:27 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks. That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the roads.

Cheers

Cheers


Amber or white are acceptable. Memorize this. There will be a test later.

16 CFR §1512.16 Requirements for reflectors.
Bicycles shall be equipped with reflective devices to permit recognition and identification under illumination from motor vehicle headlamps. The use of reflector combinations off the center plane of the bicycle (defined in §1512.18(m)(2)) is acceptable if each reflector meets the requirements of this section and of §1512.18 (m) and (n) and the combination of reflectors has a clear field of view of ±10° vertically and ±50° horizontally. Sidewalk bicycles are not required to have reflectors..

(a) Front, rear, and pedal reflectors. There shall be an essentially colorless front-facing reflector, essentially colorless or amber pedal reflectors, and a red rear-facing reflector.

(b) Side reflectors. There shall be retroreflective tire sidewalls or, alternatively, reflectors mounted on the spokes of each wheel, or, for non-caliper rim brake bicycles, retroreflective wheel rims. The center of spoke-mounted reflectors shall be within 76 mm (3.0 in.) of the inside of the rim. Side reflective devices shall be visible on each side of the wheel.

(c) Front reflector. The reflector or mount shall not contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation. The optical axis of the reflector shall be directed forward within 5° of the horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the wheels are tracking in a straight line, as defined in §1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that shall insure that the reflector meets the optical requirements of this paragraph (c) when the reflector is attached to the bicycle. The front reflector shall be tested in accordance with the reflector mount and alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(d) Rear reflector. The reflector or mount shall not contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation. The reflector shall be mounted such that it is to the rear of the seat mast with the top of the reflector at least 76 mm (3.0 in) below the point on the seat surface that is intersected by the line of the seat post. The optical axis of the reflector shall be directed rearward within 5° of the horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the wheels are traveling in a straight line, as defined in §1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that shall insure that the reflector meets the optical requirements of this paragraph (d) when the reflector is attached to the bicycle. The rear reflector shall be tested in accordance with the reflector mount and alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(e) Pedal reflectors. Each pedal shall have reflectors located on the front and rear surfaces of the pedal. The reflector elements may be either integral with the construction of the pedal or mechanically attached, but shall be sufficiently recessed from the edge of the pedal, or of the reflector housing, to prevent contact of the reflector element with a flat surface placed in contact with the edge of the pedal.

(f) Side reflectors. Reflectors affixed to the wheel spokes shall be mounted either flat on the spokes or within the spoke cage such that the angle between the optical axis and the normal to the plane of the wheel shall not exceed the angle of the spokes with the plane of the wheel. The reflectors shall not interfere with any wheel adjustments. The side-mounted reflector devices shall be essentially colorless or amber on the front wheel and essentially colorless or red on the rear wheel.

(g) Reflector tests. The pedal, front-mount, rear-mount, and side-mount reflectors shall be tested in accordance with the reflector test, §1512.18(n), to assure the reflectance values over the angles given in tables 1 and 2.

(h) Retroreflective tire sidewalls. When retroreflective tire sidewalls are used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors, the reflecting material shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous circle on the sidewall.

(2) The retroreflective material shall adhere to the tire such that after the tire has been subjected to a temperature of 50° ±3 °C (122° ±5.4 °F) for 30 minutes, the retroreflective material cannot be peeled or scraped away without removal of tire material.

(3) The retroreflective material shall be as resistant to abrasion as is the adjacent sidewall material so that when retroreflective material is removed from the inflated tire by abrasion with a wet, steel bristle brush, tire material will be removed along with the retroreflective material.

(4) The retroreflective material shall be tested for performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire test, §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties over the angles given in table 3. When a portion of the retroreflective material is selected (and the remainder is masked as specified in §1512.18(o)(2)(i)), the selected portion shall not contact the ground plane when the assembled bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation.

(i) Retroreflective rims. When retroreflective rims are used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors or retroreflective tire sidewalls, the reflecting material shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous circle on the rim.

(2) If the retroreflective material is applied to the rim in the form of a self-adhesive tape, the following requirement must be met: Use a sharp knife, razor blade, or similar instrument to carefully release an end of the tape material sufficient to be grasped between the thumb and finger. Grasp the freed tape end and gradually pull in a direction 90° to the plane of the rim. The tape material must break before additional separation (peeling) from the rim is observed.

(3) After the retroreflective material is abraded in accordance with the abrasion test for retroreflective rims at §1512.18(r), the rim must then be tested for performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire and rim test at §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties over the angles given in table 3.


Question One:

Johnny is riding down the sidewalk on his bicycle. If his bicycle is is festooned with wheel-mounted side reflectors in accordance with the law, what is the color of the reflector in his front wheel?

a. Amber

b. Essentially Colorless

c. Either a or b

d. Neither a or b because Johnny is on a sidewalk bicycle

e. None of the above because Johnny is breaking the law by riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and was taken down by the police.


-- Jay Beattie.


Emanuel Berg[_2_] October 3rd 18 06:23 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
FL 1 Standard (?)
18h
38lm
40m (range)
400cd (?)


It didn't say the weight on the packaging.
Anyway it is 105g including batteries.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Sir Ridesalot October 3rd 18 07:16 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 12:16:07 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:04:27 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks. That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the roads.

Cheers

Cheers


Amber or white are acceptable. Memorize this. There will be a test later..

16 CFR §1512.16 Requirements for reflectors.
Bicycles shall be equipped with reflective devices to permit recognition and identification under illumination from motor vehicle headlamps. The use of reflector combinations off the center plane of the bicycle (defined in §1512.18(m)(2)) is acceptable if each reflector meets the requirements of this section and of §1512.18 (m) and (n) and the combination of reflectors has a clear field of view of ±10° vertically and ±50° horizontally. Sidewalk bicycles are not required to have reflectors..

(a) Front, rear, and pedal reflectors. There shall be an essentially colorless front-facing reflector, essentially colorless or amber pedal reflectors, and a red rear-facing reflector.

(b) Side reflectors. There shall be retroreflective tire sidewalls or, alternatively, reflectors mounted on the spokes of each wheel, or, for non-caliper rim brake bicycles, retroreflective wheel rims. The center of spoke-mounted reflectors shall be within 76 mm (3.0 in.) of the inside of the rim. Side reflective devices shall be visible on each side of the wheel.

(c) Front reflector. The reflector or mount shall not contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation. The optical axis of the reflector shall be directed forward within 5° of the horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the wheels are tracking in a straight line, as defined in §1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that shall insure that the reflector meets the optical requirements of this paragraph (c) when the reflector is attached to the bicycle. The front reflector shall be tested in accordance with the reflector mount and alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(d) Rear reflector. The reflector or mount shall not contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation. The reflector shall be mounted such that it is to the rear of the seat mast with the top of the reflector at least 76 mm (3.0 in) below the point on the seat surface that is intersected by the line of the seat post. The optical axis of the reflector shall be directed rearward within 5° of the horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the wheels are traveling in a straight line, as defined in §1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that shall insure that the reflector meets the optical requirements of this paragraph (d) when the reflector is attached to the bicycle. The rear reflector shall be tested in accordance with the reflector mount and alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(e) Pedal reflectors. Each pedal shall have reflectors located on the front and rear surfaces of the pedal. The reflector elements may be either integral with the construction of the pedal or mechanically attached, but shall be sufficiently recessed from the edge of the pedal, or of the reflector housing, to prevent contact of the reflector element with a flat surface placed in contact with the edge of the pedal.

(f) Side reflectors. Reflectors affixed to the wheel spokes shall be mounted either flat on the spokes or within the spoke cage such that the angle between the optical axis and the normal to the plane of the wheel shall not exceed the angle of the spokes with the plane of the wheel. The reflectors shall not interfere with any wheel adjustments. The side-mounted reflector devices shall be essentially colorless or amber on the front wheel and essentially colorless or red on the rear wheel.

(g) Reflector tests. The pedal, front-mount, rear-mount, and side-mount reflectors shall be tested in accordance with the reflector test, §1512..18(n), to assure the reflectance values over the angles given in tables 1 and 2.

(h) Retroreflective tire sidewalls. When retroreflective tire sidewalls are used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors, the reflecting material shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous circle on the sidewall.

(2) The retroreflective material shall adhere to the tire such that after the tire has been subjected to a temperature of 50° ±3 °C (122° ±5.4 °F) for 30 minutes, the retroreflective material cannot be peeled or scraped away without removal of tire material.

(3) The retroreflective material shall be as resistant to abrasion as is the adjacent sidewall material so that when retroreflective material is removed from the inflated tire by abrasion with a wet, steel bristle brush, tire material will be removed along with the retroreflective material.

(4) The retroreflective material shall be tested for performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire test, §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties over the angles given in table 3. When a portion of the retroreflective material is selected (and the remainder is masked as specified in §1512.18(o)(2)(i)), the selected portion shall not contact the ground plane when the assembled bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation.

(i) Retroreflective rims. When retroreflective rims are used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors or retroreflective tire sidewalls, the reflecting material shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous circle on the rim.

(2) If the retroreflective material is applied to the rim in the form of a self-adhesive tape, the following requirement must be met: Use a sharp knife, razor blade, or similar instrument to carefully release an end of the tape material sufficient to be grasped between the thumb and finger. Grasp the freed tape end and gradually pull in a direction 90° to the plane of the rim. The tape material must break before additional separation (peeling) from the rim is observed.

(3) After the retroreflective material is abraded in accordance with the abrasion test for retroreflective rims at §1512.18(r), the rim must then be tested for performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire and rim test at §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties over the angles given in table 3.


Question One:

Johnny is riding down the sidewalk on his bicycle. If his bicycle is is festooned with wheel-mounted side reflectors in accordance with the law, what is the color of the reflector in his front wheel?

a. Amber

b. Essentially Colorless

c. Either a or b

d. Neither a or b because Johnny is on a sidewalk bicycle

e. None of the above because Johnny is breaking the law by riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and was taken down by the police.


-- Jay Beattie.


Is all that U.S.A. law or Ontario, Canada law?

Cheers

Duane[_2_] October 3rd 18 08:44 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 03/10/2018 2:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 12:16:07 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:04:27 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks. That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the roads.

Cheers

Cheers


Amber or white are acceptable. Memorize this. There will be a test later.

16 CFR §1512.16 Requirements for reflectors.
Bicycles shall be equipped with reflective devices to permit recognition and identification under illumination from motor vehicle headlamps. The use of reflector combinations off the center plane of the bicycle (defined in §1512.18(m)(2)) is acceptable if each reflector meets the requirements of this section and of §1512.18 (m) and (n) and the combination of reflectors has a clear field of view of ±10° vertically and ±50° horizontally. Sidewalk bicycles are not required to have reflectors.

(a) Front, rear, and pedal reflectors. There shall be an essentially colorless front-facing reflector, essentially colorless or amber pedal reflectors, and a red rear-facing reflector.

(b) Side reflectors. There shall be retroreflective tire sidewalls or, alternatively, reflectors mounted on the spokes of each wheel, or, for non-caliper rim brake bicycles, retroreflective wheel rims. The center of spoke-mounted reflectors shall be within 76 mm (3.0 in.) of the inside of the rim. Side reflective devices shall be visible on each side of the wheel.

(c) Front reflector. The reflector or mount shall not contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation. The optical axis of the reflector shall be directed forward within 5° of the horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the wheels are tracking in a straight line, as defined in §1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that shall insure that the reflector meets the optical requirements of this paragraph (c) when the reflector is attached to the bicycle. The front reflector shall be tested in accordance with the reflector mount and alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(d) Rear reflector. The reflector or mount shall not contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation. The reflector shall be mounted such that it is to the rear of the seat mast with the top of the reflector at least 76 mm (3.0 in) below the point on the seat surface that is intersected by the line of the seat post. The optical axis of the reflector shall be directed rearward within 5° of the horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the wheels are traveling in a straight line, as defined in §1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that shall insure that the reflector meets the optical requirements of this paragraph (d) when the reflector is attached to the bicycle. The rear reflector shall be tested in accordance with the reflector mount and alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(e) Pedal reflectors. Each pedal shall have reflectors located on the front and rear surfaces of the pedal. The reflector elements may be either integral with the construction of the pedal or mechanically attached, but shall be sufficiently recessed from the edge of the pedal, or of the reflector housing, to prevent contact of the reflector element with a flat surface placed in contact with the edge of the pedal.

(f) Side reflectors. Reflectors affixed to the wheel spokes shall be mounted either flat on the spokes or within the spoke cage such that the angle between the optical axis and the normal to the plane of the wheel shall not exceed the angle of the spokes with the plane of the wheel. The reflectors shall not interfere with any wheel adjustments. The side-mounted reflector devices shall be essentially colorless or amber on the front wheel and essentially colorless or red on the rear wheel.

(g) Reflector tests. The pedal, front-mount, rear-mount, and side-mount reflectors shall be tested in accordance with the reflector test, §1512.18(n), to assure the reflectance values over the angles given in tables 1 and 2.

(h) Retroreflective tire sidewalls. When retroreflective tire sidewalls are used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors, the reflecting material shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous circle on the sidewall.

(2) The retroreflective material shall adhere to the tire such that after the tire has been subjected to a temperature of 50° ±3 °C (122° ±5.4 °F) for 30 minutes, the retroreflective material cannot be peeled or scraped away without removal of tire material.

(3) The retroreflective material shall be as resistant to abrasion as is the adjacent sidewall material so that when retroreflective material is removed from the inflated tire by abrasion with a wet, steel bristle brush, tire material will be removed along with the retroreflective material.

(4) The retroreflective material shall be tested for performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire test, §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties over the angles given in table 3. When a portion of the retroreflective material is selected (and the remainder is masked as specified in §1512.18(o)(2)(i)), the selected portion shall not contact the ground plane when the assembled bicycle is resting on that plane in any orientation.

(i) Retroreflective rims. When retroreflective rims are used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors or retroreflective tire sidewalls, the reflecting material shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous circle on the rim.

(2) If the retroreflective material is applied to the rim in the form of a self-adhesive tape, the following requirement must be met: Use a sharp knife, razor blade, or similar instrument to carefully release an end of the tape material sufficient to be grasped between the thumb and finger. Grasp the freed tape end and gradually pull in a direction 90° to the plane of the rim. The tape material must break before additional separation (peeling) from the rim is observed.

(3) After the retroreflective material is abraded in accordance with the abrasion test for retroreflective rims at §1512.18(r), the rim must then be tested for performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire and rim test at §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties over the angles given in table 3.


Question One:

Johnny is riding down the sidewalk on his bicycle. If his bicycle is is festooned with wheel-mounted side reflectors in accordance with the law, what is the color of the reflector in his front wheel?

a. Amber

b. Essentially Colorless

c. Either a or b

d. Neither a or b because Johnny is on a sidewalk bicycle

e. None of the above because Johnny is breaking the law by riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and was taken down by the police.


-- Jay Beattie.


Is all that U.S.A. law or Ontario, Canada law?

Cheers


I don't think there is a U.S.A. law. I think in the states it's by the
state as it's by the province in Canada. That said, amber is allowed in
Quebec in some positions.

232. Every bicycle must carry
(1) one white reflector at the front;
(2) one red reflector at the rear;
(3) one amber or white reflector on each pedal;
(4) on the front wheel, an amber or white reflector attached to the
spokes and visible on both sides of the bicycle, an amber or white
reflective strip attached to each side of the fork, a tire with
reflective sidewalls or a rim with a continuous reflective strip around
the entire circumference of the wheel on both sides; and
(5) on the back wheel, a red or white reflector attached to the spokes
and visible on both sides of the bicycle, a red or white reflective
strip on each seat stay, a tire with reflective sidewalls, or a rim with
a continuous reflective strip around the entire circumference of the
wheel on both sides.
Despite the first paragraph, a bicycle need not carry the reflector
required under subparagraph 3 of that paragraph if the cyclist wears a
reflective band around each ankle or shoes with reflective strips.
Any equipment or object placed on a bicycle that blocks a prescribed
reflector or its substitute must carry a reflector or a reflective strip.
A trailer towed by a bicycle must carry two red reflectors at the rear,
as far apart as practicable, or a red reflective strip placed as close
to horizontal as possible across the width of the trailer.
1986, c. 91, s. 232; 2010, c. 34, s. 45; 2018, c. 7, s. 43.

AMuzi October 3rd 18 09:08 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/3/2018 2:44 PM, Duane wrote:
On 03/10/2018 2:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 12:16:07 PM UTC-4,
jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:04:27 PM UTC-7, Sir
Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be
allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg



-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated
CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red
on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's
supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks.
That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for
bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the
roads.

Cheers

Cheers

Amber or white are acceptable. Memorize this. There will
be a test later.

16 CFR §1512.16 Requirements for reflectors.
Bicycles shall be equipped with reflective devices to
permit recognition and identification under illumination
from motor vehicle headlamps. The use of reflector
combinations off the center plane of the bicycle (defined
in §1512.18(m)(2)) is acceptable if each reflector meets
the requirements of this section and of §1512.18 (m) and
(n) and the combination of reflectors has a clear field
of view of ±10° vertically and ±50° horizontally.
Sidewalk bicycles are not required to have reflectors.

(a) Front, rear, and pedal reflectors. There shall be an
essentially colorless front-facing reflector, essentially
colorless or amber pedal reflectors, and a red
rear-facing reflector.

(b) Side reflectors. There shall be retroreflective tire
sidewalls or, alternatively, reflectors mounted on the
spokes of each wheel, or, for non-caliper rim brake
bicycles, retroreflective wheel rims. The center of
spoke-mounted reflectors shall be within 76 mm (3.0 in.)
of the inside of the rim. Side reflective devices shall
be visible on each side of the wheel.

(c) Front reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The optical axis of the
reflector shall be directed forward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are tracking in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (c) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The front reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(d) Rear reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The reflector shall be
mounted such that it is to the rear of the seat mast with
the top of the reflector at least 76 mm (3.0 in) below
the point on the seat surface that is intersected by the
line of the seat post. The optical axis of the reflector
shall be directed rearward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are traveling in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (d) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The rear reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(e) Pedal reflectors. Each pedal shall have reflectors
located on the front and rear surfaces of the pedal. The
reflector elements may be either integral with the
construction of the pedal or mechanically attached, but
shall be sufficiently recessed from the edge of the
pedal, or of the reflector housing, to prevent contact of
the reflector element with a flat surface placed in
contact with the edge of the pedal.

(f) Side reflectors. Reflectors affixed to the wheel
spokes shall be mounted either flat on the spokes or
within the spoke cage such that the angle between the
optical axis and the normal to the plane of the wheel
shall not exceed the angle of the spokes with the plane
of the wheel. The reflectors shall not interfere with any
wheel adjustments. The side-mounted reflector devices
shall be essentially colorless or amber on the front
wheel and essentially colorless or red on the rear wheel.

(g) Reflector tests. The pedal, front-mount, rear-mount,
and side-mount reflectors shall be tested in accordance
with the reflector test, §1512.18(n), to assure the
reflectance values over the angles given in tables 1 and 2.

(h) Retroreflective tire sidewalls. When retroreflective
tire sidewalls are used in lieu of spoke-mounted
reflectors, the reflecting material shall meet the
following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the sidewall.

(2) The retroreflective material shall adhere to the tire
such that after the tire has been subjected to a
temperature of 50° ±3 °C (122° ±5.4 °F) for 30
minutes, the retroreflective material cannot be peeled or
scraped away without removal of tire material.

(3) The retroreflective material shall be as resistant to
abrasion as is the adjacent sidewall material so that
when retroreflective material is removed from the
inflated tire by abrasion with a wet, steel bristle
brush, tire material will be removed along with the
retroreflective material.

(4) The retroreflective material shall be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
test, §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties
over the angles given in table 3. When a portion of the
retroreflective material is selected (and the remainder
is masked as specified in §1512.18(o)(2)(i)), the
selected portion shall not contact the ground plane when
the assembled bicycle is resting on that plane in any
orientation.

(i) Retroreflective rims. When retroreflective rims are
used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors or
retroreflective tire sidewalls, the reflecting material
shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the rim.

(2) If the retroreflective material is applied to the rim
in the form of a self-adhesive tape, the following
requirement must be met: Use a sharp knife, razor blade,
or similar instrument to carefully release an end of the
tape material sufficient to be grasped between the thumb
and finger. Grasp the freed tape end and gradually pull
in a direction 90° to the plane of the rim. The tape
material must break before additional separation
(peeling) from the rim is observed.

(3) After the retroreflective material is abraded in
accordance with the abrasion test for retroreflective
rims at §1512.18(r), the rim must then be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
and rim test at §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance
properties over the angles given in table 3.


Question One:

Johnny is riding down the sidewalk on his bicycle. If
his bicycle is is festooned with wheel-mounted side
reflectors in accordance with the law, what is the color
of the reflector in his front wheel?

a. Amber

b. Essentially Colorless

c. Either a or b

d. Neither a or b because Johnny is on a sidewalk bicycle

e. None of the above because Johnny is breaking the law
by riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and was taken down
by the police.


-- Jay Beattie.


Is all that U.S.A. law or Ontario, Canada law?

Cheers


I don't think there is a U.S.A. law. I think in the states
it's by the state as it's by the province in Canada. That
said, amber is allowed in Quebec in some positions.

232. Every bicycle must carry
(1) one white reflector at the front;
(2) one red reflector at the rear;
(3) one amber or white reflector on each pedal;
(4) on the front wheel, an amber or white reflector
attached to the spokes and visible on both sides of the
bicycle, an amber or white reflective strip attached to each
side of the fork, a tire with reflective sidewalls or a rim
with a continuous reflective strip around the entire
circumference of the wheel on both sides; and
(5) on the back wheel, a red or white reflector attached to
the spokes and visible on both sides of the bicycle, a red
or white reflective strip on each seat stay, a tire with
reflective sidewalls, or a rim with a continuous reflective
strip around the entire circumference of the wheel on both
sides.
Despite the first paragraph, a bicycle need not carry the
reflector required under subparagraph 3 of that paragraph if
the cyclist wears a reflective band around each ankle or
shoes with reflective strips.
Any equipment or object placed on a bicycle that blocks a
prescribed reflector or its substitute must carry a
reflector or a reflective strip.
A trailer towed by a bicycle must carry two red reflectors
at the rear, as far apart as practicable, or a red
reflective strip placed as close to horizontal as possible
across the width of the trailer.
1986, c. 91, s. 232; 2010, c. 34, s. 45; 2018, c. 7, s. 43.


I plead TLDR on this. It may or may not be in he

https://www.cpsc.gov/Regulations-Law...ules/Bicycles/

or he
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...s-for-bicycles

The tubular tire section is hilarious.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



AMuzi October 3rd 18 09:16 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/3/2018 2:44 PM, Duane wrote:
On 03/10/2018 2:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 12:16:07 PM UTC-4,
jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:04:27 PM UTC-7, Sir
Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be
allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg



-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated
CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red
on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's
supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks.
That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for
bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the
roads.

Cheers

Cheers

Amber or white are acceptable. Memorize this. There will
be a test later.

16 CFR §1512.16 Requirements for reflectors.
Bicycles shall be equipped with reflective devices to
permit recognition and identification under illumination
from motor vehicle headlamps. The use of reflector
combinations off the center plane of the bicycle (defined
in §1512.18(m)(2)) is acceptable if each reflector meets
the requirements of this section and of §1512.18 (m) and
(n) and the combination of reflectors has a clear field
of view of ±10° vertically and ±50° horizontally.
Sidewalk bicycles are not required to have reflectors.

(a) Front, rear, and pedal reflectors. There shall be an
essentially colorless front-facing reflector, essentially
colorless or amber pedal reflectors, and a red
rear-facing reflector.

(b) Side reflectors. There shall be retroreflective tire
sidewalls or, alternatively, reflectors mounted on the
spokes of each wheel, or, for non-caliper rim brake
bicycles, retroreflective wheel rims. The center of
spoke-mounted reflectors shall be within 76 mm (3.0 in.)
of the inside of the rim. Side reflective devices shall
be visible on each side of the wheel.

(c) Front reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The optical axis of the
reflector shall be directed forward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are tracking in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (c) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The front reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(d) Rear reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The reflector shall be
mounted such that it is to the rear of the seat mast with
the top of the reflector at least 76 mm (3.0 in) below
the point on the seat surface that is intersected by the
line of the seat post. The optical axis of the reflector
shall be directed rearward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are traveling in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (d) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The rear reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(e) Pedal reflectors. Each pedal shall have reflectors
located on the front and rear surfaces of the pedal. The
reflector elements may be either integral with the
construction of the pedal or mechanically attached, but
shall be sufficiently recessed from the edge of the
pedal, or of the reflector housing, to prevent contact of
the reflector element with a flat surface placed in
contact with the edge of the pedal.

(f) Side reflectors. Reflectors affixed to the wheel
spokes shall be mounted either flat on the spokes or
within the spoke cage such that the angle between the
optical axis and the normal to the plane of the wheel
shall not exceed the angle of the spokes with the plane
of the wheel. The reflectors shall not interfere with any
wheel adjustments. The side-mounted reflector devices
shall be essentially colorless or amber on the front
wheel and essentially colorless or red on the rear wheel.

(g) Reflector tests. The pedal, front-mount, rear-mount,
and side-mount reflectors shall be tested in accordance
with the reflector test, §1512.18(n), to assure the
reflectance values over the angles given in tables 1 and 2.

(h) Retroreflective tire sidewalls. When retroreflective
tire sidewalls are used in lieu of spoke-mounted
reflectors, the reflecting material shall meet the
following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the sidewall.

(2) The retroreflective material shall adhere to the tire
such that after the tire has been subjected to a
temperature of 50° ±3 °C (122° ±5.4 °F) for 30
minutes, the retroreflective material cannot be peeled or
scraped away without removal of tire material.

(3) The retroreflective material shall be as resistant to
abrasion as is the adjacent sidewall material so that
when retroreflective material is removed from the
inflated tire by abrasion with a wet, steel bristle
brush, tire material will be removed along with the
retroreflective material.

(4) The retroreflective material shall be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
test, §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties
over the angles given in table 3. When a portion of the
retroreflective material is selected (and the remainder
is masked as specified in §1512.18(o)(2)(i)), the
selected portion shall not contact the ground plane when
the assembled bicycle is resting on that plane in any
orientation.

(i) Retroreflective rims. When retroreflective rims are
used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors or
retroreflective tire sidewalls, the reflecting material
shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the rim.

(2) If the retroreflective material is applied to the rim
in the form of a self-adhesive tape, the following
requirement must be met: Use a sharp knife, razor blade,
or similar instrument to carefully release an end of the
tape material sufficient to be grasped between the thumb
and finger. Grasp the freed tape end and gradually pull
in a direction 90° to the plane of the rim. The tape
material must break before additional separation
(peeling) from the rim is observed.

(3) After the retroreflective material is abraded in
accordance with the abrasion test for retroreflective
rims at §1512.18(r), the rim must then be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
and rim test at §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance
properties over the angles given in table 3.


Question One:

Johnny is riding down the sidewalk on his bicycle. If
his bicycle is is festooned with wheel-mounted side
reflectors in accordance with the law, what is the color
of the reflector in his front wheel?

a. Amber

b. Essentially Colorless

c. Either a or b

d. Neither a or b because Johnny is on a sidewalk bicycle

e. None of the above because Johnny is breaking the law
by riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and was taken down
by the police.


-- Jay Beattie.


Is all that U.S.A. law or Ontario, Canada law?

Cheers


I don't think there is a U.S.A. law. I think in the states
it's by the state as it's by the province in Canada. That
said, amber is allowed in Quebec in some positions.

232. Every bicycle must carry
(1) one white reflector at the front;
(2) one red reflector at the rear;
(3) one amber or white reflector on each pedal;
(4) on the front wheel, an amber or white reflector
attached to the spokes and visible on both sides of the
bicycle, an amber or white reflective strip attached to each
side of the fork, a tire with reflective sidewalls or a rim
with a continuous reflective strip around the entire
circumference of the wheel on both sides; and
(5) on the back wheel, a red or white reflector attached to
the spokes and visible on both sides of the bicycle, a red
or white reflective strip on each seat stay, a tire with
reflective sidewalls, or a rim with a continuous reflective
strip around the entire circumference of the wheel on both
sides.
Despite the first paragraph, a bicycle need not carry the
reflector required under subparagraph 3 of that paragraph if
the cyclist wears a reflective band around each ankle or
shoes with reflective strips.
Any equipment or object placed on a bicycle that blocks a
prescribed reflector or its substitute must carry a
reflector or a reflective strip.
A trailer towed by a bicycle must carry two red reflectors
at the rear, as far apart as practicable, or a red
reflective strip placed as close to horizontal as possible
across the width of the trailer.
1986, c. 91, s. 232; 2010, c. 34, s. 45; 2018, c. 7, s. 43.



OK I think I found it:
https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manuf...-Requirements/

note link to subsection 1512.16:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...12_main_02.tpl

Special note to fitness/performance crowd:
"(1) A rider weighing at least 150 pounds must ride a
bicycle at least 4 miles with the tires inflated to maximum
recommended pressure. The rider must travel five times at a
speed of at least 15 miles per hour over a 100 foot cleated
course."

Which seems to indicate a regulation of cyclists and cycling
rather than actual hardware.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



Radey Shouman October 3rd 18 09:30 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
AMuzi writes:

On 10/3/2018 2:44 PM, Duane wrote:
On 03/10/2018 2:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 12:16:07 PM UTC-4,
jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:04:27 PM UTC-7, Sir
Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be
allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg



-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated
CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red
on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's
supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks.
That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for
bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the
roads.

Cheers

Cheers

Amber or white are acceptable. Memorize this. There will
be a test later.

16 CFR §1512.16 Requirements for reflectors.
Bicycles shall be equipped with reflective devices to
permit recognition and identification under illumination
from motor vehicle headlamps. The use of reflector
combinations off the center plane of the bicycle (defined

16 CFR §1512.16 in §1512.18(m)(2)) is acceptable if each reflector meets
the requirements of this section and of §1512.18 (m) and
(n) and the combination of reflectors has a clear field
of view of ±10° vertically and ±50° horizontally.
Sidewalk bicycles are not required to have reflectors.

(a) Front, rear, and pedal reflectors. There shall be an
essentially colorless front-facing reflector, essentially
colorless or amber pedal reflectors, and a red
rear-facing reflector.

(b) Side reflectors. There shall be retroreflective tire
sidewalls or, alternatively, reflectors mounted on the
spokes of each wheel, or, for non-caliper rim brake
bicycles, retroreflective wheel rims. The center of
spoke-mounted reflectors shall be within 76 mm (3.0 in.)
of the inside of the rim. Side reflective devices shall
be visible on each side of the wheel.

(c) Front reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The optical axis of the
reflector shall be directed forward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are tracking in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (c) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The front reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(d) Rear reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The reflector shall be
mounted such that it is to the rear of the seat mast with
the top of the reflector at least 76 mm (3.0 in) below
the point on the seat surface that is intersected by the
line of the seat post. The optical axis of the reflector
shall be directed rearward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are traveling in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (d) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The rear reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(e) Pedal reflectors. Each pedal shall have reflectors
located on the front and rear surfaces of the pedal. The
reflector elements may be either integral with the
construction of the pedal or mechanically attached, but
shall be sufficiently recessed from the edge of the
pedal, or of the reflector housing, to prevent contact of
the reflector element with a flat surface placed in
contact with the edge of the pedal.

(f) Side reflectors. Reflectors affixed to the wheel
spokes shall be mounted either flat on the spokes or
within the spoke cage such that the angle between the
optical axis and the normal to the plane of the wheel
shall not exceed the angle of the spokes with the plane
of the wheel. The reflectors shall not interfere with any
wheel adjustments. The side-mounted reflector devices
shall be essentially colorless or amber on the front
wheel and essentially colorless or red on the rear wheel.

(g) Reflector tests. The pedal, front-mount, rear-mount,
and side-mount reflectors shall be tested in accordance
with the reflector test, §1512.18(n), to assure the
reflectance values over the angles given in tables 1 and 2.

(h) Retroreflective tire sidewalls. When retroreflective
tire sidewalls are used in lieu of spoke-mounted
reflectors, the reflecting material shall meet the
following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the sidewall.

(2) The retroreflective material shall adhere to the tire
such that after the tire has been subjected to a
temperature of 50° ±3 °C (122° ±5.4 °F) for 30
minutes, the retroreflective material cannot be peeled or
scraped away without removal of tire material.

(3) The retroreflective material shall be as resistant to
abrasion as is the adjacent sidewall material so that
when retroreflective material is removed from the
inflated tire by abrasion with a wet, steel bristle
brush, tire material will be removed along with the
retroreflective material.

(4) The retroreflective material shall be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
test, §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties
over the angles given in table 3. When a portion of the
retroreflective material is selected (and the remainder
is masked as specified in §1512.18(o)(2)(i)), the
selected portion shall not contact the ground plane when
the assembled bicycle is resting on that plane in any
orientation.

(i) Retroreflective rims. When retroreflective rims are
used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors or
retroreflective tire sidewalls, the reflecting material
shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the rim.

(2) If the retroreflective material is applied to the rim
in the form of a self-adhesive tape, the following
requirement must be met: Use a sharp knife, razor blade,
or similar instrument to carefully release an end of the
tape material sufficient to be grasped between the thumb
and finger. Grasp the freed tape end and gradually pull
in a direction 90° to the plane of the rim. The tape
material must break before additional separation
(peeling) from the rim is observed.

(3) After the retroreflective material is abraded in
accordance with the abrasion test for retroreflective
rims at §1512.18(r), the rim must then be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
and rim test at §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance
properties over the angles given in table 3.


Question One:

Johnny is riding down the sidewalk on his bicycle. If
his bicycle is is festooned with wheel-mounted side
reflectors in accordance with the law, what is the color
of the reflector in his front wheel?

a. Amber

b. Essentially Colorless

c. Either a or b

d. Neither a or b because Johnny is on a sidewalk bicycle

e. None of the above because Johnny is breaking the law
by riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and was taken down
by the police.


-- Jay Beattie.

Is all that U.S.A. law or Ontario, Canada law?

Cheers


I don't think there is a U.S.A. law. I think in the states
it's by the state as it's by the province in Canada. That
said, amber is allowed in Quebec in some positions.

232. Every bicycle must carry
(1) one white reflector at the front;
(2) one red reflector at the rear;
(3) one amber or white reflector on each pedal;
(4) on the front wheel, an amber or white reflector
attached to the spokes and visible on both sides of the
bicycle, an amber or white reflective strip attached to each
side of the fork, a tire with reflective sidewalls or a rim
with a continuous reflective strip around the entire
circumference of the wheel on both sides; and
(5) on the back wheel, a red or white reflector attached to
the spokes and visible on both sides of the bicycle, a red
or white reflective strip on each seat stay, a tire with
reflective sidewalls, or a rim with a continuous reflective
strip around the entire circumference of the wheel on both
sides.
Despite the first paragraph, a bicycle need not carry the
reflector required under subparagraph 3 of that paragraph if
the cyclist wears a reflective band around each ankle or
shoes with reflective strips.
Any equipment or object placed on a bicycle that blocks a
prescribed reflector or its substitute must carry a
reflector or a reflective strip.
A trailer towed by a bicycle must carry two red reflectors
at the rear, as far apart as practicable, or a red
reflective strip placed as close to horizontal as possible
across the width of the trailer.
1986, c. 91, s. 232; 2010, c. 34, s. 45; 2018, c. 7, s. 43.



OK I think I found it:
https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manuf...-Requirements/

note link to subsection 1512.16:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...12_main_02.tpl

Special note to fitness/performance crowd:
"(1) A rider weighing at least 150 pounds must ride a bicycle at least
4 miles with the tires inflated to maximum recommended pressure. The
rider must travel five times at a speed of at least 15 miles per hour
over a 100 foot cleated course."

Which seems to indicate a regulation of cyclists and cycling rather
than actual hardware.


I think you might have meant subsection 1512.18, although the verbiage
in that section is not exactly as in your excerpt. It describes a
testing procedure, not very rigorous, but neither completely ridiculous.

Unless I am mistaken, all of the quoted US law prescribes minimum
standards for bicycles offered for sale. The Canadian laws quoted seem
to prescribe standards for bicycles as they are ridden on public ways.

US states do have similar laws, although I have never lived anywhere
that they are actually enforced.
--

JBeattie October 3rd 18 10:09 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 1:31:04 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 10/3/2018 2:44 PM, Duane wrote:
On 03/10/2018 2:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 12:16:07 PM UTC-4,
jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:04:27 PM UTC-7, Sir
Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be
allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg



-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated
CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red
on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's
supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks.
That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for
bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the
roads.

Cheers

Cheers

Amber or white are acceptable. Memorize this. There will
be a test later.

16 CFR 1512.16 Requirements for reflectors.
Bicycles shall be equipped with reflective devices to
permit recognition and identification under illumination
from motor vehicle headlamps. The use of reflector
combinations off the center plane of the bicycle (defined

16 CFR §1512.16 in §1512.18(m)(2)) is acceptable if each reflector meets
the requirements of this section and of §1512.18 (m) and
(n) and the combination of reflectors has a clear field
of view of ±10° vertically and ±50° horizontally.
Sidewalk bicycles are not required to have reflectors.

(a) Front, rear, and pedal reflectors. There shall be an
essentially colorless front-facing reflector, essentially
colorless or amber pedal reflectors, and a red
rear-facing reflector.

(b) Side reflectors. There shall be retroreflective tire
sidewalls or, alternatively, reflectors mounted on the
spokes of each wheel, or, for non-caliper rim brake
bicycles, retroreflective wheel rims. The center of
spoke-mounted reflectors shall be within 76 mm (3.0 in.)
of the inside of the rim. Side reflective devices shall
be visible on each side of the wheel.

(c) Front reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The optical axis of the
reflector shall be directed forward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are tracking in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (c) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The front reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(d) Rear reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The reflector shall be
mounted such that it is to the rear of the seat mast with
the top of the reflector at least 76 mm (3.0 in) below
the point on the seat surface that is intersected by the
line of the seat post. The optical axis of the reflector
shall be directed rearward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are traveling in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (d) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The rear reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(e) Pedal reflectors. Each pedal shall have reflectors
located on the front and rear surfaces of the pedal. The
reflector elements may be either integral with the
construction of the pedal or mechanically attached, but
shall be sufficiently recessed from the edge of the
pedal, or of the reflector housing, to prevent contact of
the reflector element with a flat surface placed in
contact with the edge of the pedal.

(f) Side reflectors. Reflectors affixed to the wheel
spokes shall be mounted either flat on the spokes or
within the spoke cage such that the angle between the
optical axis and the normal to the plane of the wheel
shall not exceed the angle of the spokes with the plane
of the wheel. The reflectors shall not interfere with any
wheel adjustments. The side-mounted reflector devices
shall be essentially colorless or amber on the front
wheel and essentially colorless or red on the rear wheel.

(g) Reflector tests. The pedal, front-mount, rear-mount,
and side-mount reflectors shall be tested in accordance
with the reflector test, §1512.18(n), to assure the
reflectance values over the angles given in tables 1 and 2.

(h) Retroreflective tire sidewalls. When retroreflective
tire sidewalls are used in lieu of spoke-mounted
reflectors, the reflecting material shall meet the
following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the sidewall.

(2) The retroreflective material shall adhere to the tire
such that after the tire has been subjected to a
temperature of 50° ±3 °C (122° ±5.4 °F) for 30
minutes, the retroreflective material cannot be peeled or
scraped away without removal of tire material.

(3) The retroreflective material shall be as resistant to
abrasion as is the adjacent sidewall material so that
when retroreflective material is removed from the
inflated tire by abrasion with a wet, steel bristle
brush, tire material will be removed along with the
retroreflective material.

(4) The retroreflective material shall be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
test, §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties
over the angles given in table 3. When a portion of the
retroreflective material is selected (and the remainder
is masked as specified in §1512.18(o)(2)(i)), the
selected portion shall not contact the ground plane when
the assembled bicycle is resting on that plane in any
orientation.

(i) Retroreflective rims. When retroreflective rims are
used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors or
retroreflective tire sidewalls, the reflecting material
shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the rim.

(2) If the retroreflective material is applied to the rim
in the form of a self-adhesive tape, the following
requirement must be met: Use a sharp knife, razor blade,
or similar instrument to carefully release an end of the
tape material sufficient to be grasped between the thumb
and finger. Grasp the freed tape end and gradually pull
in a direction 90° to the plane of the rim. The tape
material must break before additional separation
(peeling) from the rim is observed.

(3) After the retroreflective material is abraded in
accordance with the abrasion test for retroreflective
rims at §1512.18(r), the rim must then be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
and rim test at §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance
properties over the angles given in table 3.


Question One:

Johnny is riding down the sidewalk on his bicycle. If
his bicycle is is festooned with wheel-mounted side
reflectors in accordance with the law, what is the color
of the reflector in his front wheel?

a. Amber

b. Essentially Colorless

c. Either a or b

d. Neither a or b because Johnny is on a sidewalk bicycle

e. None of the above because Johnny is breaking the law
by riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and was taken down
by the police.


-- Jay Beattie.

Is all that U.S.A. law or Ontario, Canada law?

Cheers


I don't think there is a U.S.A. law. I think in the states
it's by the state as it's by the province in Canada. That
said, amber is allowed in Quebec in some positions.

232. Every bicycle must carry
(1) one white reflector at the front;
(2) one red reflector at the rear;
(3) one amber or white reflector on each pedal;
(4) on the front wheel, an amber or white reflector
attached to the spokes and visible on both sides of the
bicycle, an amber or white reflective strip attached to each
side of the fork, a tire with reflective sidewalls or a rim
with a continuous reflective strip around the entire
circumference of the wheel on both sides; and
(5) on the back wheel, a red or white reflector attached to
the spokes and visible on both sides of the bicycle, a red
or white reflective strip on each seat stay, a tire with
reflective sidewalls, or a rim with a continuous reflective
strip around the entire circumference of the wheel on both
sides.
Despite the first paragraph, a bicycle need not carry the
reflector required under subparagraph 3 of that paragraph if
the cyclist wears a reflective band around each ankle or
shoes with reflective strips.
Any equipment or object placed on a bicycle that blocks a
prescribed reflector or its substitute must carry a
reflector or a reflective strip.
A trailer towed by a bicycle must carry two red reflectors
at the rear, as far apart as practicable, or a red
reflective strip placed as close to horizontal as possible
across the width of the trailer.
1986, c. 91, s. 232; 2010, c. 34, s. 45; 2018, c. 7, s. 43.



OK I think I found it:
https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manuf...-Requirements/

note link to subsection 1512.16:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...12_main_02.tpl

Special note to fitness/performance crowd:
"(1) A rider weighing at least 150 pounds must ride a bicycle at least
4 miles with the tires inflated to maximum recommended pressure. The
rider must travel five times at a speed of at least 15 miles per hour
over a 100 foot cleated course."

Which seems to indicate a regulation of cyclists and cycling rather
than actual hardware.


I think you might have meant subsection 1512.18, although the verbiage
in that section is not exactly as in your excerpt. It describes a
testing procedure, not very rigorous, but neither completely ridiculous.

Unless I am mistaken, all of the quoted US law prescribes minimum
standards for bicycles offered for sale. The Canadian laws quoted seem
to prescribe standards for bicycles as they are ridden on public ways.

US states do have similar laws, although I have never lived anywhere
that they are actually enforced.
--




Yes, this is the Consumer Products Safety Commission's regulation relating to the sale of bicycles. The cite looks good: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/1512.16



The typical UVC (Uniform Vehicle Code) provision states:

12-701-Application of chapter to bicycles
No provision in this chapter shall apply to bicycles nor to
equipment for use on bicycles except as to provisions in this article
or unless a provision has been made specifically applicable to
bicyclists, bicycles or their equipment.

S 12-702-Headlight and taillight required at night
Every bicycle in use at the times described in 12-201 shall be equipped
with a headlight on the front emitting a white light visible from a
distance of at least 500 feet to the front, and a taillight on the rear
emitting a red light visible from a distance of at least 1000 feet to
the rear.

S 12-703-Rear reflector required at all times
Every bicycle shall be equipped with a red reflector of a type
approved by the department which shall be visible for 600 feet to the
rear when directly in front of lawful lower beams of headlights on a
motor vehicle.

S 12-704Side reflector or light required at night
Every bicycle when in use at the times described in S 12-201 shall
be equipped with reflective material of sufficient size and
reflectivity to be visible from both sides for 600 feet when directly
in front of lawful lower beams of head lamps on a motor vehicle, or, in
lieu of such reflective material, with a lighted lamp visible from both
sides from a distance of at least 500 feet.

S 12-705-Additional lights or reflectors authorized
A bicycle or its rider may be equipped with lights or reflectors in
addition to those required by the foregoing sections. These lights
and/or reflectors may be LED or regular, steady or flashing, as long as
they comply with the requirements or limitations of the department.

S 12-706-Brake required
Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake or brakes which will
enable its driver to stop the bicycle within 15 feet from a speed of 10
miles per hour on dry, level, clean pavement.

S 12-707 Sirens, whistles prohibited
No bicycle may be equipped with a siren or whistle. No person may
use a siren or whistle when operating a bicycle.

Most states have some version of this rule. In Oregon: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/815.280

I'm pushing for a rule in Oregon requiring fenders with a full rear flap. Rain is returning. And I want to repeal the no-siren rule. How is a cyclist to be truly conspicuous without a siren?

-- Jay Beattie.

[email protected] October 3rd 18 10:35 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 3:08:20 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

I plead TLDR on this. It may or may not be in he

https://www.cpsc.gov/Regulations-Law...ules/Bicycles/

or he
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...s-for-bicycles

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I had no idea this is how the minimum insertion mark on a seatpost is set.

§ 1512.15
Requirements for seat.
(b) Seat post. The seat post shall contain a permanent mark or ring that clearly indicates the minimum insertion depth (maximum seat-height adjustment); the mark shall not affect the structural integrity of the seat post. This mark shall be located no less than two seat-post diameters from the lowest point on the post shaft, and the post strength shall be maintained for at least a length of one shaft diameter below the mark.

[email protected] October 3rd 18 10:41 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 4:09:39 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:


S 12-707 Sirens, whistles prohibited
No bicycle may be equipped with a siren or whistle. No person may
use a siren or whistle when operating a bicycle.

I'm pushing for a rule in Oregon requiring fenders with a full rear flap. Rain is returning. And I want to repeal the no-siren rule. How is a cyclist to be truly conspicuous without a siren?

-- Jay Beattie.


How can they make it illegal to have a siren/horn on a bicycle, yet cars and motorcycles are required to have horns so drivers can blare them at cyclists? I am aware that fair and law are not related.

AMuzi October 3rd 18 11:00 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/3/2018 4:41 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 4:09:39 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:


S 12-707 Sirens, whistles prohibited
No bicycle may be equipped with a siren or whistle. No person may
use a siren or whistle when operating a bicycle.

I'm pushing for a rule in Oregon requiring fenders with a full rear flap. Rain is returning. And I want to repeal the no-siren rule. How is a cyclist to be truly conspicuous without a siren?

-- Jay Beattie.


How can they make it illegal to have a siren/horn on a bicycle, yet cars and motorcycles are required to have horns so drivers can blare them at cyclists? I am aware that fair and law are not related.


I have no idea.
The usual scenario is that some major vendor of sirens or
whatnot refuses to pay up during 'rulemaking'. I don't think
such a vendor exists for bicycle sirens, so one guess is as
good as another.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



Duane[_4_] October 3rd 18 11:23 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2018 2:44 PM, Duane wrote:
On 03/10/2018 2:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 12:16:07 PM UTC-4,
jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:04:27 PM UTC-7, Sir
Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 4:51:31 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 2:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/2/2018 11:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
StVZO are job-killing regulations. Markets should be
allowed to regulate light output. Die globalists, die!
https://www.brooksengland.com/media/...1638b377e8.jpg



-- Jay Beattie.


Nice try but it's not safe. No Federally mandated
CPSC wheel
reflectors. Anything could happen!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

#1. Is that Joerg's bicycle?

#2. I see a wheel reflector on each wheel.

Cheers


Nice try but they're the old Amber, not the current Safety
White. Danger!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here they're supposed to be white on the front and red
on the rear. Ditto for the safety reflective tape that's
supposed to be applied to the front and rear forks.
That's according to Ontario, Canada law.

If cops were real sticklers to the requirements for
bicycles there'ld be darn few Legal bicycles here on the
roads.

Cheers

Cheers

Amber or white are acceptable. Memorize this. There will
be a test later.

16 CFR §1512.16 Requirements for reflectors.
Bicycles shall be equipped with reflective devices to
permit recognition and identification under illumination
from motor vehicle headlamps. The use of reflector
combinations off the center plane of the bicycle (defined
in §1512.18(m)(2)) is acceptable if each reflector meets
the requirements of this section and of §1512.18 (m) and
(n) and the combination of reflectors has a clear field
of view of ±10° vertically and ±50° horizontally.
Sidewalk bicycles are not required to have reflectors.

(a) Front, rear, and pedal reflectors. There shall be an
essentially colorless front-facing reflector, essentially
colorless or amber pedal reflectors, and a red
rear-facing reflector.

(b) Side reflectors. There shall be retroreflective tire
sidewalls or, alternatively, reflectors mounted on the
spokes of each wheel, or, for non-caliper rim brake
bicycles, retroreflective wheel rims. The center of
spoke-mounted reflectors shall be within 76 mm (3.0 in.)
of the inside of the rim. Side reflective devices shall
be visible on each side of the wheel.

(c) Front reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The optical axis of the
reflector shall be directed forward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are tracking in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (c) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The front reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(d) Rear reflector. The reflector or mount shall not
contact the ground plane when the bicycle is resting on
that plane in any orientation. The reflector shall be
mounted such that it is to the rear of the seat mast with
the top of the reflector at least 76 mm (3.0 in) below
the point on the seat surface that is intersected by the
line of the seat post. The optical axis of the reflector
shall be directed rearward within 5° of the
horizontal-vertical alignment of the bicycle when the
wheels are traveling in a straight line, as defined in
§1512.18(m)(2). The reflectors and/or mounts shall
incorporate a distinct, preferred assembly method that
shall insure that the reflector meets the optical
requirements of this paragraph (d) when the reflector is
attached to the bicycle. The rear reflector shall be
tested in accordance with the reflector mount and
alignment test, §1512.18(m).

(e) Pedal reflectors. Each pedal shall have reflectors
located on the front and rear surfaces of the pedal. The
reflector elements may be either integral with the
construction of the pedal or mechanically attached, but
shall be sufficiently recessed from the edge of the
pedal, or of the reflector housing, to prevent contact of
the reflector element with a flat surface placed in
contact with the edge of the pedal.

(f) Side reflectors. Reflectors affixed to the wheel
spokes shall be mounted either flat on the spokes or
within the spoke cage such that the angle between the
optical axis and the normal to the plane of the wheel
shall not exceed the angle of the spokes with the plane
of the wheel. The reflectors shall not interfere with any
wheel adjustments. The side-mounted reflector devices
shall be essentially colorless or amber on the front
wheel and essentially colorless or red on the rear wheel.

(g) Reflector tests. The pedal, front-mount, rear-mount,
and side-mount reflectors shall be tested in accordance
with the reflector test, §1512.18(n), to assure the
reflectance values over the angles given in tables 1 and 2.

(h) Retroreflective tire sidewalls. When retroreflective
tire sidewalls are used in lieu of spoke-mounted
reflectors, the reflecting material shall meet the
following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the sidewall.

(2) The retroreflective material shall adhere to the tire
such that after the tire has been subjected to a
temperature of 50° ±3 °C (122° ±5.4 °F) for 30
minutes, the retroreflective material cannot be peeled or
scraped away without removal of tire material.

(3) The retroreflective material shall be as resistant to
abrasion as is the adjacent sidewall material so that
when retroreflective material is removed from the
inflated tire by abrasion with a wet, steel bristle
brush, tire material will be removed along with the
retroreflective material.

(4) The retroreflective material shall be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
test, §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance properties
over the angles given in table 3. When a portion of the
retroreflective material is selected (and the remainder
is masked as specified in §1512.18(o)(2)(i)), the
selected portion shall not contact the ground plane when
the assembled bicycle is resting on that plane in any
orientation.

(i) Retroreflective rims. When retroreflective rims are
used in lieu of spoke-mounted reflectors or
retroreflective tire sidewalls, the reflecting material
shall meet the following requirements:

(1) The retroreflective material shall form a continuous
circle on the rim.

(2) If the retroreflective material is applied to the rim
in the form of a self-adhesive tape, the following
requirement must be met: Use a sharp knife, razor blade,
or similar instrument to carefully release an end of the
tape material sufficient to be grasped between the thumb
and finger. Grasp the freed tape end and gradually pull
in a direction 90° to the plane of the rim. The tape
material must break before additional separation
(peeling) from the rim is observed.

(3) After the retroreflective material is abraded in
accordance with the abrasion test for retroreflective
rims at §1512.18(r), the rim must then be tested for
performance in accordance with the retroreflective tire
and rim test at §1512.18(o), to assure the reflectance
properties over the angles given in table 3.


Question One:

Johnny is riding down the sidewalk on his bicycle. If
his bicycle is is festooned with wheel-mounted side
reflectors in accordance with the law, what is the color
of the reflector in his front wheel?

a. Amber

b. Essentially Colorless

c. Either a or b

d. Neither a or b because Johnny is on a sidewalk bicycle

e. None of the above because Johnny is breaking the law
by riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and was taken down
by the police.


-- Jay Beattie.

Is all that U.S.A. law or Ontario, Canada law?

Cheers


I don't think there is a U.S.A. law. I think in the states
it's by the state as it's by the province in Canada. That
said, amber is allowed in Quebec in some positions.

232. Every bicycle must carry
(1) one white reflector at the front;
(2) one red reflector at the rear;
(3) one amber or white reflector on each pedal;
(4) on the front wheel, an amber or white reflector
attached to the spokes and visible on both sides of the
bicycle, an amber or white reflective strip attached to each
side of the fork, a tire with reflective sidewalls or a rim
with a continuous reflective strip around the entire
circumference of the wheel on both sides; and
(5) on the back wheel, a red or white reflector attached to
the spokes and visible on both sides of the bicycle, a red
or white reflective strip on each seat stay, a tire with
reflective sidewalls, or a rim with a continuous reflective
strip around the entire circumference of the wheel on both
sides.
Despite the first paragraph, a bicycle need not carry the
reflector required under subparagraph 3 of that paragraph if
the cyclist wears a reflective band around each ankle or
shoes with reflective strips.
Any equipment or object placed on a bicycle that blocks a
prescribed reflector or its substitute must carry a
reflector or a reflective strip.
A trailer towed by a bicycle must carry two red reflectors
at the rear, as far apart as practicable, or a red
reflective strip placed as close to horizontal as possible
across the width of the trailer.
1986, c. 91, s. 232; 2010, c. 34, s. 45; 2018, c. 7, s. 43.


I plead TLDR on this. It may or may not be in he

https://www.cpsc.gov/Regulations-Law...ules/Bicycles/

or he
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...s-for-bicycles

The tubular tire section is hilarious.


Thanks. I thought it was by state.

--
duane

JBeattie October 4th 18 12:17 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 3:00:11 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2018 4:41 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 4:09:39 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:


S 12-707 Sirens, whistles prohibited
No bicycle may be equipped with a siren or whistle. No person may
use a siren or whistle when operating a bicycle.

I'm pushing for a rule in Oregon requiring fenders with a full rear flap. Rain is returning. And I want to repeal the no-siren rule. How is a cyclist to be truly conspicuous without a siren?

-- Jay Beattie.


How can they make it illegal to have a siren/horn on a bicycle, yet cars and motorcycles are required to have horns so drivers can blare them at cyclists? I am aware that fair and law are not related.


I have no idea.
The usual scenario is that some major vendor of sirens or
whatnot refuses to pay up during 'rulemaking'. I don't think
such a vendor exists for bicycle sirens, so one guess is as
good as another.


And I should have said "law" and not "rule." CPSC makes rules. Legislatures pass traffic laws like the UVC. In either case, BIG SIREN is lurking in the background, manipulating legislators and administrators -- waiting to propose its mandatory siren rule to the CPSC and a multi-state model law for sirens on bicycles. Soon, sirens will be mandatory!

BTW, regulation created some of the greatest of (former) American companies like Portland-based Freighliner. Those snub-nosed cab-over tractors were invented to maximize cargo space under the ICC/DOT regulations limiting tractor/trailer LOA. Every regulation creates a business opportunity. Regulations are job creators!

-- Jay Beattie.


[email protected] October 4th 18 01:01 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

BTW, regulation created some of the greatest of (former) American companies like Portland-based Freighliner. Those snub-nosed cab-over tractors were invented to maximize cargo space under the ICC/DOT regulations limiting tractor/trailer LOA. Every regulation creates a business opportunity. Regulations are job creators!

-- Jay Beattie.


I can see that. Use a longer trailer, haul more stuff, if you use a short cabover truck/engine. Only problem is you would then have different length trailers for cabover and engine in front trucks. Trailer manufacturers would not like that. They want uniformity. And all the shippers loading material into the trailers would have to adjust to loading a different volume in each trailer.

John B. Slocomb October 4th 18 01:26 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:01:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

BTW, regulation created some of the greatest of (former) American companies like Portland-based Freighliner. Those snub-nosed cab-over tractors were invented to maximize cargo space under the ICC/DOT regulations limiting tractor/trailer LOA. Every regulation creates a business opportunity. Regulations are job creators!

-- Jay Beattie.


I can see that. Use a longer trailer, haul more stuff, if you use a short cabover truck/engine. Only problem is you would then have different length trailers for cabover and engine in front trucks. Trailer manufacturers would not like that. They want uniformity. And all the shippers loading material into the trailers would have to adjust to loading a different volume in each trailer.


I think that in the U.S. trailer makers must produce trailers in
varying lengths already as the overall length of the tractor - trailer
unit varies considerable from state to state with New Hampshire and S.
Carolina limiting overall length to 53 feet while Wyoming allows an 85
foot overall length.
--

Cheers,

John B.

David Scheidt October 4th 18 02:23 AM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
John B. Slocomb wrote:
:On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:01:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

:On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
:
: BTW, regulation created some of the greatest of (former) American companies like Portland-based Freighliner. Those snub-nosed cab-over tractors were invented to maximize cargo space under the ICC/DOT regulations limiting tractor/trailer LOA. Every regulation creates a business opportunity. Regulations are job creators!
:
: -- Jay Beattie.
:
:I can see that. Use a longer trailer, haul more stuff, if you use a short cabover truck/engine. Only problem is you would then have different length trailers for cabover and engine in front trucks. Trailer manufacturers would not like that. They want uniformity. And all the shippers loading material into the trailers would have to adjust to loading a different volume in each trailer.

:I think that in the U.S. trailer makers must produce trailers in
:varying lengths already as the overall length of the tractor - trailer
:unit varies considerable from state to state with New Hampshire and S.
:Carolina limiting overall length to 53 feet while Wyoming allows an 85
:foot overall length.

53 foot is a standard single trailer. Combination trailers use
shorter trailers, typically 28 feet, six inches long, with some
variation. Trucking companies like combination vehicles for a variety
of reasons, not least it lets one tractor pull more stuff. But also
the individual pups are more flexible, if you are delivering or
picking up multiple at the same location, each one can be put its own
dock door, and loaded or unloaded in parallel; a single pup can be
used for urban delivery service, and it makes cross country routing a
bit easier.

That's van trucks. other stuff follows their own rules, some of it
highly specialized.

--
Movable type was evidently a fad. --Amanda Walker

Emanuel Berg[_2_] October 4th 18 01:33 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
FL 1 Standard (?)
18h
38lm
40m (range)
400cd (?)


OK, so FL 1 is the "ANSI FL1 Standard" ("FL" is
"flashlight", I take it) and cd is "candela".
I suppose one has to read the article [1] to
learn what sense to make of the
400cd specification.

[1] http://www.led-resource.com/ansi-fl1-standard/

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Joerg[_2_] October 4th 18 04:02 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 2018-10-01 15:14, wrote:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike

The beloved Magicshine brings us what we finally need in bike lights.
Thanks to all the gods. 6500 lumens! I think you can have either
5000 or 1500 or all 6500 lumens. Thankfully now we will not only be
able to blind everyone else on the road or trail, but we can now
cause their eyeballs to burst into flames and maybe hopefully their
heads will also explode. Yeah!!!!!!


This one for their rear light is weird, quote "A sleep mode is triggered
after one minute of inaction to save power, any vibration will
immediately re-activate the unit".

So the light will go out while waiting at an intersection? Really?
Nobody raised their hand during the design review? Was there even a
design review?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Duane[_2_] October 4th 18 04:10 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 04/10/2018 11:02 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-01 15:14, wrote:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike

The beloved Magicshine brings us what we finally need in bike lights.
Thanks to all the gods.Â* 6500 lumens!Â* I think you can have either
5000 or 1500 or all 6500 lumens.Â* Thankfully now we will not only be
able to blind everyone else on the road or trail, but we can now
cause their eyeballs to burst into flames and maybe hopefully their
heads will also explode.Â* Yeah!!!!!!


This one for their rear light is weird, quote "A sleep mode is triggered
after one minute of inaction to save power, any vibration will
immediately re-activate the unit".

So the light will go out while waiting at an intersection? Really?
Nobody raised their hand during the design review? Was there even a
design review?

[...]


Maybe anyone with 6500 lumens isn't stopping at red lights. Or maybe
they just jiggle the bike to turn it on again...

Jeff Liebermann October 4th 18 05:42 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:33:34 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

FL 1 Standard (?)
18h
38lm
40m (range)
400cd (?)


OK, so FL 1 is the "ANSI FL1 Standard" ("FL" is
"flashlight", I take it) and cd is "candela".
I suppose one has to read the article [1] to
learn what sense to make of the
400cd specification.

[1] http://www.led-resource.com/ansi-fl1-standard/


Maybe reading the definitions of candelas, lux, and lumens might help:
https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/whats-the-difference-between-candela-lux-and-lumens
https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/torches-lux-candela-lumen.htm
There are calculators for converting between these. Be sure to read
about "solid angles".

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Joerg[_2_] October 4th 18 06:14 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 2018-10-04 08:10, Duane wrote:
On 04/10/2018 11:02 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-01 15:14, wrote:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike

The beloved Magicshine brings us what we finally need in bike lights.
Thanks to all the gods. 6500 lumens! I think you can have either
5000 or 1500 or all 6500 lumens. Thankfully now we will not only be
able to blind everyone else on the road or trail, but we can now
cause their eyeballs to burst into flames and maybe hopefully their
heads will also explode. Yeah!!!!!!


This one for their rear light is weird, quote "A sleep mode is
triggered after one minute of inaction to save power, any vibration
will immediately re-activate the unit".

So the light will go out while waiting at an intersection? Really?
Nobody raised their hand during the design review? Was there even a
design review?

[...]


Maybe anyone with 6500 lumens isn't stopping at red lights.



I've had a rider in front of me in downtown Sacramento who blew through
every single red light. Couldn't believe it. He was slower so I always
caught up, then he pulled away from me at the next red light. His bike
was completely unlit as unfortunately most American road bikes are.


... Or maybe they just jiggle the bike to turn it on again...



"Attention, this light only works properly when mounted on a vibrator" :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Emanuel Berg[_2_] October 4th 18 06:26 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

OK, so FL 1 is the "ANSI FL1 Standard" ("FL"
is "flashlight", I take it) and cd is
"candela". I suppose one has to read the
article [1] to learn what sense to make of
the 400cd specification.

[1] http://www.led-resource.com/ansi-fl1-standard/


Maybe reading the definitions of candelas,
lux, and lumens might help


I don't think so :)

https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/whats-the-difference-between-candela-lux-and-lumens
https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/torches-lux-candela-lumen.htm
There are calculators for converting between
these. Be sure to read about "solid angles".


OK, I read the two web pages! (There is nothing
on solid angles what I could see.)

What *I think* I understood is that

LUX: lux is describing how bright the object
will be, or how big an area (floor or wall) you
can enlight, by pointing the flashlight at it.

LUMEN: lumen is how much light that comes from
the light source, only this doesn't take into
account if and how the light is obstructed or
enforced/directed, e.g. because of the
construction of the lamp, what lens there
is and where, etc.

CANDELA: candela takes into account
obstructions (various blockings of the light)
but also the enforcing of it thru a lens.
This means that candela is a good unit to
determine how far away the light will actually
be visible, for example if you waive it to the
sea from the beach of a deserted island...

For bike applications, it seems for commuting
in a well-lit city with traffic, you'd want
candela, for MTB you'd want lux, and for
touring, you'd want a combination :)

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Frank Krygowski[_4_] October 4th 18 06:40 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/4/2018 11:02 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-01 15:14, wrote:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike

The beloved Magicshine brings us what we finally need in bike lights.
Thanks to all the gods.Â* 6500 lumens!Â* I think you can have either
5000 or 1500 or all 6500 lumens.Â* Thankfully now we will not only be
able to blind everyone else on the road or trail, but we can now
cause their eyeballs to burst into flames and maybe hopefully their
heads will also explode.Â* Yeah!!!!!!


This one for their rear light is weird, quote "A sleep mode is triggered
after one minute of inaction to save power, any vibration will
immediately re-activate the unit".

So the light will go out while waiting at an intersection? Really?
Nobody raised their hand during the design review? Was there even a
design review?


First, their definition of "sleep mode" may not be "goes out." It could,
I suppose, just become much dimmer. In any case, it would be easy enough
to jiggle the bike a bit to turn it back on.

But it's probably not necessary. Ohio law specifically permits lights
that go out when the bike is stationary, and there's never been a report
of a death or serious injury caused by that feature. When cyclists stop,
it's almost always because of a red light or stop sign. Motorists stop
for those things as well (in fact, more often than cyclists do). A
motorist coming to a stop at night will see a stationary cyclist in the
lane in front of him.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski[_4_] October 4th 18 07:04 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/4/2018 1:26 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

For bike applications, it seems for commuting
in a well-lit city with traffic, you'd want
candela, for MTB you'd want lux, and for
touring, you'd want a combination :)


I'd say that for on-road bike applications, what you should want is good
optical design. Here's why:

With proper optics, it takes very few lumens to light the road surface
well enough for safety. And that should be your top priority. There's
plenty of hype about motorists running over cyclists. We even have one
poster who has claimed there's great hazard from tree branches just six
feet above above a road surface. But in real life, the great majority of
bike crashes are caused by problems with the road surface - slippery
spots, potholes, streetcar tracks and the like.

So you want to see the road surface well. The unit of measurement that
applies is lux - but simply giving one lux number doesn't differentiate
good lights from bad. Putting plenty of lux in one spot (say) two meters
in front of a cyclist is worse than useless. A "hot spot" harms a
person's night vision and makes it harder to see outside that spot.

What you want is an even spread of perceived illumination on the road,
plus (for faster riding) good "throw" down the road just below the
horizon. This requires a complex beam shape, one that actually throws
fewer lumens down close to the cyclist, gradually increasing further in
front of the cyclist, then an even brighter beam just below the horizon.
And, of course, you want adequate spread side to side.

If you have a headlight that illuminates the roadway sufficiently, you
_will_ be adequately visible to oncoming traffic. IOW, they have enough
candelas. Even weak novelty lights are adequately visible to oncoming
traffic, and those don't light the road surface at all.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Joerg[_2_] October 4th 18 07:12 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 2018-10-04 10:40, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2018 11:02 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-01 15:14, wrote:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/magicshine-l...2018-interbike

The beloved Magicshine brings us what we finally need in bike lights.
Thanks to all the gods. 6500 lumens! I think you can have either
5000 or 1500 or all 6500 lumens. Thankfully now we will not only be
able to blind everyone else on the road or trail, but we can now
cause their eyeballs to burst into flames and maybe hopefully their
heads will also explode. Yeah!!!!!!


This one for their rear light is weird, quote "A sleep mode is
triggered after one minute of inaction to save power, any vibration
will immediately re-activate the unit".

So the light will go out while waiting at an intersection? Really?
Nobody raised their hand during the design review? Was there even a
design review?


First, their definition of "sleep mode" may not be "goes out." It could,
I suppose, just become much dimmer. In any case, it would be easy enough
to jiggle the bike a bit to turn it back on.


Not very smart on the part of the design engineers.


But it's probably not necessary. Ohio law specifically permits lights
that go out when the bike is stationary, ...



Not a smart decision by the lawmakers.


... and there's never been a report
of a death or serious injury caused by that feature.



Grandpa drove without a seat belt all his life and never go hurt, so ...

BTW, it even happens from the front, even by police officers:

https://fox2now.com/2018/07/30/polic...hone-in-video/

Nothing can replace bright light other than even brighter lights. Which
both of my bikes have.


... When cyclists stop,
it's almost always because of a red light or stop sign. Motorists stop
for those things as well (in fact, more often than cyclists do). A
motorist coming to a stop at night will see a stationary cyclist in the
lane in front of him.


Not if you are waiting in a turn lane without a light. That's where a
local cyclist was hit, hard. I don't remember if she survived but she
was mangled pretty badly.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

AMuzi October 4th 18 07:28 PM

SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
 
On 10/4/2018 1:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2018 1:26 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

For bike applications, it seems for commuting
in a well-lit city with traffic, you'd want
candela, for MTB you'd want lux, and for
touring, you'd want a combination :)


I'd say that for on-road bike applications, what you should
want is good optical design. Here's why:

With proper optics, it takes very few lumens to light the
road surface well enough for safety. And that should be your
top priority. There's plenty of hype about motorists running
over cyclists. We even have one poster who has claimed
there's great hazard from tree branches just six feet above
above a road surface. But in real life, the great majority
of bike crashes are caused by problems with the road surface
- slippery spots, potholes, streetcar tracks and the like.

So you want to see the road surface well. The unit of
measurement that applies is lux - but simply giving one lux
number doesn't differentiate good lights from bad. Putting
plenty of lux in one spot (say) two meters in front of a
cyclist is worse than useless. A "hot spot" harms a person's
night vision and makes it harder to see outside that spot.

What you want is an even spread of perceived illumination on
the road, plus (for faster riding) good "throw" down the
road just below the horizon. This requires a complex beam
shape, one that actually throws fewer lumens down close to
the cyclist, gradually increasing further in front of the
cyclist, then an even brighter beam just below the horizon.
And, of course, you want adequate spread side to side.

If you have a headlight that illuminates the roadway
sufficiently, you _will_ be adequately visible to oncoming
traffic. IOW, they have enough candelas. Even weak novelty
lights are adequately visible to oncoming traffic, and those
don't light the road surface at all.


+1, covers all the important points well.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971




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