The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:57:48 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 19:35:07 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
I'm just trying to deduce or guess why there are no CF bicycle lights.
I can get most everything else in CF but not lights. If the industry
can produce CF water bottle cages, helmets, and bicycle pumps, why not
lights?

I suspect it is that thing called "demand". Practically every bike I
see has a bottle cage on it and far less often do I see a light.

That's because removable bicycle headlights are too easy to steal. So,
the owner removes them before parking his bicycle. During the
daytime, my headlight lives in my overflowing bicycle junk bag. The
only time the general public is allowed to view my bicycle headlight
is under cover of darkness. Of course, I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

However, I do agree that there is little demand for CF (carbon fiber)
bicycle headlights. This is because few people buy CF bicycles just
to win races. I suspect that the vast majority of CF bicycles are
sold as a financial status symbol for the owner. Riding around town
on a $4,000 and up machine is certain to gain the attention of other
envious riders aspiring to own such an expensive machine. The problem
is that one cannot show off such a machine at night, when nobody can
see it. It must be shown during daylight hours when a bicycle
headlight is not needed, thus explaining the lack of demand for CF
headlights.

Assuming a manufactory would accept my market analysis, the
appropriate headlight would an "emergency" light, that would only make
its appearance if the owner is caught after dark and without an
audience. Wires would be aesthetically disgusting and detract from
the spectacle. Therefore battery power would be acceptable. Light
output should be on the dim side, so as not to blind anyone that might
be impressed by the rolling status symbol. Temporarily clamping the
light to aero handlebars might be awkward, but still possible. Of
course, the price should be in line with the rest of the bicycle and
seriously overpriced.

But I suspect that with a intensive SAFEYTY! program it might be
possible to change that.

The problem with CF bicycles is that they tend to lack the structural
integrity and safety margins needed to be genuinely safe. Judging by
the numerous photos of CF stress and fatigue failures found online,
riding near impending failure is considered normal. I've often
suspected that this is to maximize the damage from a crash, thus
inspiring a lucrative CF repair and frame replacement market. If
riders were genuinely interested in safety, they would not consider a
CF machine. I would guess(tm) that the prime motivations for
purchasing a CF bicycle are high cost, sex appeal, looks fast even
while standing still, very low mass, and speed potential. If I
extended this list to include trivia, safety would be somewhere near
the bottom.

Calcium Carbide is also quite useful as a fishing tool. A screw top
bottle or can, a bit of calcium carbide and a rock. Put the rock and
the carbide in the bottle/can, add the cap, after punching a tiny nail
hole in it, and drop in the lake. After a few minutes fish will start
to float by. Belly up.

I didn't know that was possible. If I ride my bicycle with an
attached carbide lantern into a lake or river, will that also kill the
fish? Kinda sounds like something that deserves a warning label on
the lantern.

When I went to the phone company and cancelled my account the nice
young lady there asked me if I minded telling her why I wanted to
cancel my account and I related my little story. She smiled and
replied, "Yes, some people do notice"

I had a similar experience with my Verizon cell phone bill. I had 3
of my friends on a "family plan" from Verizon. It saved them quite a
bit of money on their cell phone bill, as long as the total number of
minutes per month was under some maximum. Over the years, prepaid
rapidly became cheaper, while monthly plans increased in cost. I
finally noticed when I compared bills with a lady friend and
discovered that I was seriously overpaying.

Currently I am looking for a small talk only phone. I can buy a brand
new phone for about $20 but I really want one of the tiny phones like
Nokia used to sell. Remember when phones used to be advertised as
small and petite?

Well, if you want small and cute, try a Samsung Juke (SCH-u470) or
https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+juke&tbm=isch
I wasn't terribly impressed with the range, battery life,
construction, survivability, picture quality, and overall design, but
they are small and cool looking. In public, it looks like you're
talking into the palm of your upraised hand which attracts onlookers
wondering "where's the phone?"

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

On 3/24/2017 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I've mentioned this case before here on RBT.

My very good friend's company was sued after an underage
thief was killed crossing an Interstate (pedestrians and
cyclists prohibited) with a freshly stolen bicycle. The open
QR front wheel fell out when he came up out of the ditch
onto a traffic lane. The attorney for the mother of said
miscreant argued that while Schwinns in his store had "do
not ride at night" stickers and also "do not ride without
properly securing wheel quick release" stickers, the brand
in question lacked both. The jury opined that the bicycles
we imported were nonconforming to 'accepted industry standards'.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:35:18 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:57:48 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 19:35:07 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
I'm just trying to deduce or guess why there are no CF bicycle lights.
I can get most everything else in CF but not lights. If the industry
can produce CF water bottle cages, helmets, and bicycle pumps, why not
lights?

I suspect it is that thing called "demand". Practically every bike I
see has a bottle cage on it and far less often do I see a light.

That's because removable bicycle headlights are too easy to steal. So,
the owner removes them before parking his bicycle. During the
daytime, my headlight lives in my overflowing bicycle junk bag. The
only time the general public is allowed to view my bicycle headlight
is under cover of darkness. Of course, I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

On the other hand, bicycle lights don't seem to be a necessity at all,
at least not here. I often see people riding after dark, or perhaps
more accurately before dawn, with no lights. Of course, these aren't
those with the skin tight panties and the colorful jerseys, it is the
ones with the hum-drum clothing who are going about their daily
shopping chores. They also seem to ride on the "wrong side of the
road", so they can see oncoming traffic I suppose, and usually not too
far from the curb, undoubtedly so that the can hop off and run in an
emergency.


However, I do agree that there is little demand for CF (carbon fiber)
bicycle headlights. This is because few people buy CF bicycles just
to win races. I suspect that the vast majority of CF bicycles are
sold as a financial status symbol for the owner. Riding around town
on a $4,000 and up machine is certain to gain the attention of other
envious riders aspiring to own such an expensive machine. The problem
is that one cannot show off such a machine at night, when nobody can
see it. It must be shown during daylight hours when a bicycle
headlight is not needed, thus explaining the lack of demand for CF
headlights.

Assuming a manufactory would accept my market analysis, the
appropriate headlight would an "emergency" light, that would only make
its appearance if the owner is caught after dark and without an
audience. Wires would be aesthetically disgusting and detract from
the spectacle. Therefore battery power would be acceptable. Light
output should be on the dim side, so as not to blind anyone that might
be impressed by the rolling status symbol. Temporarily clamping the
light to aero handlebars might be awkward, but still possible. Of
course, the price should be in line with the rest of the bicycle and
seriously overpriced.

I suspect that a manufacturer might be inclined to accept your market
analysis if you were to guarantee any losses that he might incur from
following them :-)



But I suspect that with a intensive SAFEYTY! program it might be
possible to change that.

The problem with CF bicycles is that they tend to lack the structural
integrity and safety margins needed to be genuinely safe. Judging by
the numerous photos of CF stress and fatigue failures found online,
riding near impending failure is considered normal. I've often
suspected that this is to maximize the damage from a crash, thus
inspiring a lucrative CF repair and frame replacement market. If
riders were genuinely interested in safety, they would not consider a
CF machine. I would guess(tm) that the prime motivations for
purchasing a CF bicycle are high cost, sex appeal, looks fast even
while standing still, very low mass, and speed potential. If I
extended this list to include trivia, safety would be somewhere near
the bottom.

There is no problem at all in building what would be essentially a
bullet proof CF bicycle. After all, the latest Boeing transport has
large sections of composite materials and I doubt that the insurers
would accept the same excuses that the bicycleing fraternity accepts.



Calcium Carbide is also quite useful as a fishing tool. A screw top
bottle or can, a bit of calcium carbide and a rock. Put the rock and
the carbide in the bottle/can, add the cap, after punching a tiny nail
hole in it, and drop in the lake. After a few minutes fish will start
to float by. Belly up.

I didn't know that was possible. If I ride my bicycle with an
attached carbide lantern into a lake or river, will that also kill the
fish? Kinda sounds like something that deserves a warning label on
the lantern.

Nope, you need the bottle/can with the tiny hole in the lid and the
rock ballast for it to work properly.

My guess that if carbide lights were marketed today, in the U.S. they
would have to be a yard high to include all the warnings. Good Lord!
These things can explode; blow up!.... "are you some sort of
terrorist?"

When I went to the phone company and cancelled my account the nice
young lady there asked me if I minded telling her why I wanted to
cancel my account and I related my little story. She smiled and
replied, "Yes, some people do notice"

I had a similar experience with my Verizon cell phone bill. I had 3
of my friends on a "family plan" from Verizon. It saved them quite a
bit of money on their cell phone bill, as long as the total number of
minutes per month was under some maximum. Over the years, prepaid
rapidly became cheaper, while monthly plans increased in cost. I
finally noticed when I compared bills with a lady friend and
discovered that I was seriously overpaying.

Currently I am looking for a small talk only phone. I can buy a brand
new phone for about $20 but I really want one of the tiny phones like
Nokia used to sell. Remember when phones used to be advertised as
small and petite?

Well, if you want small and cute, try a Samsung Juke (SCH-u470) or
https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+juke&tbm=isch
I wasn't terribly impressed with the range, battery life,
construction, survivability, picture quality, and overall design, but
they are small and cool looking. In public, it looks like you're
talking into the palm of your upraised hand which attracts onlookers
wondering "where's the phone?"

Nope! None of that Korean made stuff. Nokia has promised to resurrect
the 3310 and I will either wait for that or alternately buy a
"classic", i.e. "old", Nokia.

I will never forget the first person I ever saw talking on a hand
phone using a "hands-free" (as they are referred to here). It was
early in the morning and he was standing on the corner of Orchard
Road, in Singapore, waving his arms and talking in a loud voice. I
thought he was some sort of religious fanatic and hurried by without
looking directly at him :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:40:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I've mentioned this case before here on RBT.

My very good friend's company was sued after an underage
thief was killed crossing an Interstate (pedestrians and
cyclists prohibited) with a freshly stolen bicycle. The open
QR front wheel fell out when he came up out of the ditch
onto a traffic lane. The attorney for the mother of said
miscreant argued that while Schwinns in his store had "do
not ride at night" stickers and also "do not ride without
properly securing wheel quick release" stickers, the brand
in question lacked both. The jury opined that the bicycles
we imported were nonconforming to 'accepted industry standards'.

My personal opinion is that U.S. courts have perpetrated some
extremely illogical rulings on the population.

An individual orders a cup of hot coffee. They are served a cup of hot
coffee. They then accept and pay for the cup of hot coffee and carry
it away. Subsequently they spill the hot coffee on themselves and it
is determined that it was the people who brewed the coffee that were
at fault.

Now you tell the story about the chap that steals a bicycle and it is
the seller who is at fault that he gets run over.

Here we don't have jury trials which means that one has to convince a
trained jurist that you are correct and I do not believe that they
will accept the premise that not tightening the axle nuts on a bicycle
sitting in your shop is the cause of a bicycle thief crashing. Nor
that spilling hot coffee on yourself is someone else's fault :-)

I suppose that ultimately someone will steal a bicycle and when caught
with the stolen goods, tried, convicted and sentenced, will than sue
the manufacturer of the bicycle since logically if "they" hadn't made
the bicycle it couldn't have been stolen....

It is obvious that "reality" in the U.S. is significantly different
than the rest of the world.
--
Cheers,

John B.

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:36:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.

I suspect that buyers are immune to such nonsense. Such stickers are
everywhere. I've been involved in a few too many product liability
suits. Part of what has become almost ritual is the final decision or
settlement includes a requirement that the manufacturer attach a
warning label to the product so that future users can take evasive
action. Sometimes it's an insert with the product, which these days
is mostly warnings and repudiation of responsibility documents.

I forgot who's headlight or flashlight had the warning label "Do not
look into lamp while in use" or something like that. Instead of
discouraging me from buying this light, I deduced that anything bright
enough to require a warning label must really be super bright. In
other words, warning labels can sometimes be used to sell the product.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 1:16:17 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:40:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I've mentioned this case before here on RBT.

My very good friend's company was sued after an underage
thief was killed crossing an Interstate (pedestrians and
cyclists prohibited) with a freshly stolen bicycle. The open
QR front wheel fell out when he came up out of the ditch
onto a traffic lane. The attorney for the mother of said
miscreant argued that while Schwinns in his store had "do
not ride at night" stickers and also "do not ride without
properly securing wheel quick release" stickers, the brand
in question lacked both. The jury opined that the bicycles
we imported were nonconforming to 'accepted industry standards'.

My personal opinion is that U.S. courts have perpetrated some
extremely illogical rulings on the population.

An individual orders a cup of hot coffee. They are served a cup of hot
coffee. They then accept and pay for the cup of hot coffee and carry
it away. Subsequently they spill the hot coffee on themselves and it
is determined that it was the people who brewed the coffee that were
at fault.

Now you tell the story about the chap that steals a bicycle and it is
the seller who is at fault that he gets run over.

Here we don't have jury trials which means that one has to convince a
trained jurist that you are correct and I do not believe that they
will accept the premise that not tightening the axle nuts on a bicycle
sitting in your shop is the cause of a bicycle thief crashing. Nor
that spilling hot coffee on yourself is someone else's fault :-)

I suppose that ultimately someone will steal a bicycle and when caught
with the stolen goods, tried, convicted and sentenced, will than sue
the manufacturer of the bicycle since logically if "they" hadn't made
the bicycle it couldn't have been stolen....

It is obvious that "reality" in the U.S. is significantly different
than the rest of the world.
--
Cheers,

John B.

The OLD lady bought the coffee, set it between her legs as she sat on the front passenger seat of the stopped car in the drive-thru lane. Then she removed the lid of the coffee. The driver drove forwards which caused the very hot coffee to spill and scald her in a very sensitive region of her anatomy. IMHO, the fault was due to three people, #1, the woman for putting the hot coffe between her legs and then removing the lid, #2, her son for putting the car into motion whilst his mother had the opened coffee cup between her legs and lastly #3, the store for selling what the courts determined was OVERLY hot coffee.

Cheers

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

On 3/25/2017 1:31 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 1:16:17 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:40:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I've mentioned this case before here on RBT.

My very good friend's company was sued after an underage
thief was killed crossing an Interstate (pedestrians and
cyclists prohibited) with a freshly stolen bicycle. The open
QR front wheel fell out when he came up out of the ditch
onto a traffic lane. The attorney for the mother of said
miscreant argued that while Schwinns in his store had "do
not ride at night" stickers and also "do not ride without
properly securing wheel quick release" stickers, the brand
in question lacked both. The jury opined that the bicycles
we imported were nonconforming to 'accepted industry standards'.

My personal opinion is that U.S. courts have perpetrated some
extremely illogical rulings on the population.

An individual orders a cup of hot coffee. They are served a cup of hot
coffee. They then accept and pay for the cup of hot coffee and carry
it away. Subsequently they spill the hot coffee on themselves and it
is determined that it was the people who brewed the coffee that were
at fault.

Now you tell the story about the chap that steals a bicycle and it is
the seller who is at fault that he gets run over.

Here we don't have jury trials which means that one has to convince a
trained jurist that you are correct and I do not believe that they
will accept the premise that not tightening the axle nuts on a bicycle
sitting in your shop is the cause of a bicycle thief crashing. Nor
that spilling hot coffee on yourself is someone else's fault :-)

I suppose that ultimately someone will steal a bicycle and when caught
with the stolen goods, tried, convicted and sentenced, will than sue
the manufacturer of the bicycle since logically if "they" hadn't made
the bicycle it couldn't have been stolen....

It is obvious that "reality" in the U.S. is significantly different
than the rest of the world.

The OLD lady bought the coffee, set it between her legs as she sat on the front passenger seat of the stopped car in the drive-thru lane. Then she removed the lid of the coffee. The driver drove forwards which caused the very hot coffee to spill and scald her in a very sensitive region of her anatomy. IMHO, the fault was due to three people, #1, the woman for putting the hot coffe between her legs and then removing the lid, #2, her son for putting the car into motion whilst his mother had the opened coffee cup between her legs and lastly #3, the store for selling what the courts determined was OVERLY hot coffee.


You emphasize the word 'old' and yet most teenagers have
learned that hot coffee is hot. Maybe 'old' is not such a
critical factor here.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 3:34:37 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/25/2017 1:31 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 1:16:17 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:40:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I've mentioned this case before here on RBT.

My very good friend's company was sued after an underage
thief was killed crossing an Interstate (pedestrians and
cyclists prohibited) with a freshly stolen bicycle. The open
QR front wheel fell out when he came up out of the ditch
onto a traffic lane. The attorney for the mother of said
miscreant argued that while Schwinns in his store had "do
not ride at night" stickers and also "do not ride without
properly securing wheel quick release" stickers, the brand
in question lacked both. The jury opined that the bicycles
we imported were nonconforming to 'accepted industry standards'.

My personal opinion is that U.S. courts have perpetrated some
extremely illogical rulings on the population.

An individual orders a cup of hot coffee. They are served a cup of hot
coffee. They then accept and pay for the cup of hot coffee and carry
it away. Subsequently they spill the hot coffee on themselves and it
is determined that it was the people who brewed the coffee that were
at fault.

Now you tell the story about the chap that steals a bicycle and it is
the seller who is at fault that he gets run over.

Here we don't have jury trials which means that one has to convince a
trained jurist that you are correct and I do not believe that they
will accept the premise that not tightening the axle nuts on a bicycle
sitting in your shop is the cause of a bicycle thief crashing. Nor
that spilling hot coffee on yourself is someone else's fault :-)

I suppose that ultimately someone will steal a bicycle and when caught
with the stolen goods, tried, convicted and sentenced, will than sue
the manufacturer of the bicycle since logically if "they" hadn't made
the bicycle it couldn't have been stolen....

It is obvious that "reality" in the U.S. is significantly different
than the rest of the world.

The OLD lady bought the coffee, set it between her legs as she sat on the front passenger seat of the stopped car in the drive-thru lane. Then she removed the lid of the coffee. The driver drove forwards which caused the very hot coffee to spill and scald her in a very sensitive region of her anatomy. IMHO, the fault was due to three people, #1, the woman for putting the hot coffe between her legs and then removing the lid, #2, her son for putting the car into motion whilst his mother had the opened coffee cup between her legs and lastly #3, the store for selling what the courts determined was OVERLY hot coffee.


You emphasize the word 'old' and yet most teenagers have
learned that hot coffee is hot. Maybe 'old' is not such a
critical factor here.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I emphasized the word 'old' because I'm pretty certain that the judge gave the payout he did due to her age and to where the injury was located. then again you'd think that her younger son who was the driver at the time would have had more sense than to putt he car into motion whilst an opened cup of coffee was sitting btween his mother's legs. Had the coffee cup lid been on the cup the hot coffee would not have spilled. Had the woman not had the cup between her legs she'd have not been scalded in an extremely sensitive region of the body. Had the son not put the car in motion whilst the opened coffee cup was whre it was it would not have spilled. In other words, blame was give to everyone *EXCCEPT* the idiots who caused the action in the first place = the customers.

Cheers

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

On 3/25/2017 2:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I emphasized the word 'old' because I'm pretty certain that the judge gave the payout he did due to her age and to where the injury was located.

Wow, how are you certain of that?

The reality is that she got the payout because McDonald's was negligent
and admitted as much.

"During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700
claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims
involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This
history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of
this hazard."

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 8:19:41 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 3/25/2017 2:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I emphasized the word 'old' because I'm pretty certain that the judge gave the payout he did due to her age and to where the injury was located.

Wow, how are you certain of that?

The reality is that she got the payout because McDonald's was negligent
and admitted as much.

"During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700
claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims
involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This
history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of
this hazard."

A deep pockets firm like McDonalds probably as 700 claims from people claiming
their french fries are too sharp. They'll say they stabbed themselves in the
eye with a french fry.

- Frank Krygowski

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:31:37 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 1:16:17 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:40:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I've mentioned this case before here on RBT.

My very good friend's company was sued after an underage
thief was killed crossing an Interstate (pedestrians and
cyclists prohibited) with a freshly stolen bicycle. The open
QR front wheel fell out when he came up out of the ditch
onto a traffic lane. The attorney for the mother of said
miscreant argued that while Schwinns in his store had "do
not ride at night" stickers and also "do not ride without
properly securing wheel quick release" stickers, the brand
in question lacked both. The jury opined that the bicycles
we imported were nonconforming to 'accepted industry standards'.

My personal opinion is that U.S. courts have perpetrated some
extremely illogical rulings on the population.

An individual orders a cup of hot coffee. They are served a cup of hot
coffee. They then accept and pay for the cup of hot coffee and carry
it away. Subsequently they spill the hot coffee on themselves and it
is determined that it was the people who brewed the coffee that were
at fault.

Now you tell the story about the chap that steals a bicycle and it is
the seller who is at fault that he gets run over.

Here we don't have jury trials which means that one has to convince a
trained jurist that you are correct and I do not believe that they
will accept the premise that not tightening the axle nuts on a bicycle
sitting in your shop is the cause of a bicycle thief crashing. Nor
that spilling hot coffee on yourself is someone else's fault :-)

I suppose that ultimately someone will steal a bicycle and when caught
with the stolen goods, tried, convicted and sentenced, will than sue
the manufacturer of the bicycle since logically if "they" hadn't made
the bicycle it couldn't have been stolen....

It is obvious that "reality" in the U.S. is significantly different
than the rest of the world.
--
Cheers,

John B.

The OLD lady bought the coffee, set it between her legs as she sat on rte front passenger seat of the stopped car in the drive-thru lane. Then she removed the lid of the coffee. The driver drove forwards which caused the very hot coffee to spill and scald her in a very sensitive region of her anatomy. IMHO, the fault was due to three people, #1, the woman for putting the hot coffe between her legs and then removing the lid, #2, her son for putting the car into motion whilst his mother had the opened coffee cup between her legs and lastly #3, the store for selling what the courts determined was OVERLY hot coffee.

Cheers

Nope the courts did not rule that the coffee was overly hot. The
Claimant's Attorney argued that but also evidence was presented that
the Coffee Brewing Institute recommended coffee be brewed at a higher
temperature. as it was more tasteful.

(In detail The Claimant argued that coffee at 190 - 190F was
dangerious and the Coffee Brew3ing Institute states that coffee should
be brewed at 197 - 204F)

The Attorney for the Claimant also mentioned several times during the
hearing that the amount that the serving company made, on a world wide
basis, was several times what the Claimant was asking.

But seriously Frank, you buy a cup of coffee, it is served to you and
you accept it and pay for it and carry it away, off the premises of
the seller, and only then do you spill it in your lap and it is the
fault of the company that sold you the coffee?

As an aside, I read that the same stunt was tried in England and the
Court refused to hear the claim. I believe that they stated that it
was, "without merit".
--
Cheers,

John B.

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:34:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/25/2017 1:31 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 1:16:17 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:40:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I've mentioned this case before here on RBT.

My very good friend's company was sued after an underage
thief was killed crossing an Interstate (pedestrians and
cyclists prohibited) with a freshly stolen bicycle. The open
QR front wheel fell out when he came up out of the ditch
onto a traffic lane. The attorney for the mother of said
miscreant argued that while Schwinns in his store had "do
not ride at night" stickers and also "do not ride without
properly securing wheel quick release" stickers, the brand
in question lacked both. The jury opined that the bicycles
we imported were nonconforming to 'accepted industry standards'.

My personal opinion is that U.S. courts have perpetrated some
extremely illogical rulings on the population.

An individual orders a cup of hot coffee. They are served a cup of hot
coffee. They then accept and pay for the cup of hot coffee and carry
it away. Subsequently they spill the hot coffee on themselves and it
is determined that it was the people who brewed the coffee that were
at fault.

Now you tell the story about the chap that steals a bicycle and it is
the seller who is at fault that he gets run over.

Here we don't have jury trials which means that one has to convince a
trained jurist that you are correct and I do not believe that they
will accept the premise that not tightening the axle nuts on a bicycle
sitting in your shop is the cause of a bicycle thief crashing. Nor
that spilling hot coffee on yourself is someone else's fault :-)

I suppose that ultimately someone will steal a bicycle and when caught
with the stolen goods, tried, convicted and sentenced, will than sue
the manufacturer of the bicycle since logically if "they" hadn't made
the bicycle it couldn't have been stolen....

It is obvious that "reality" in the U.S. is significantly different
than the rest of the world.

The OLD lady bought the coffee, set it between her legs as she sat on the front passenger seat of the stopped car in the drive-thru lane. Then she removed the lid of the coffee. The driver drove forwards which caused the very hot coffee to spill and scald her in a very sensitive region of her anatomy. IMHO, the fault was due to three people, #1, the woman for putting the hot coffe between her legs and then removing the lid, #2, her son for putting the car into motion whilst his mother had the opened coffee cup between her legs and lastly #3, the store for selling what the courts determined was OVERLY hot coffee.


You emphasize the word 'old' and yet most teenagers have
learned that hot coffee is hot. Maybe 'old' is not such a
critical factor here.

Good Lord! Most pre-school children have been taught not to pull the
pot off the stove and scald themselves.

But the adjective "old" does serve to imply that the poor "old" soul
was too feeble to take care of herself.
--
Cheers,

John B.

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:13:31 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 3:34:37 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/25/2017 1:31 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 1:16:17 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:40:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/24/2017 11:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... I rarely ride at night, giving
the impression that I don't own a bicycle headlight. Given my
speculation that a majority of the bicycling world follows a similar
operating paradigm, the general impression would be that few riders
own a bicycle headlight.

Many lower-end bikes come with stickers saying "Never Ride at Night."
Surely, such "Danger! Danger!" warnings affect people's behavior.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Or maybe they just forgot to add a line saying "...without using an approved bicycle light or reflectors". Without the warning not to ride at night the bicycle manufacturer and the store are both open to being sued when some idiot without lights or even reflectors rides at night on a dark road and gets hit.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a Greg LeMond frame and built up a road bike. The
frame came with small, arrow shaped decals near the dropouts, saying
"Failure to tighten this bolt may cause loss of the wheel".

Together with the "Never ride at night" decals that Frank mentions and
your warning about being sued, it probably demonstrates the level of
intelligence that others perceive bicyclists to have.

After all, they have to be told repeatedly, over and over again, to
always wear those helmets that will save their lives, to use the
asphalt melting bright lights, that tiny little flashing lights will
make them 32% safer.

Good Lord! Can these people be bright enough to be out alone? Riding
on public roads?

Perhaps if we could limit bicycle riding so that it takes place only
on approved pathways, never at night, and only under the supervision
of a trained supervisor we could stop the carnage on the roads caused
by these two wheeled killers.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I've mentioned this case before here on RBT.

My very good friend's company was sued after an underage
thief was killed crossing an Interstate (pedestrians and
cyclists prohibited) with a freshly stolen bicycle. The open
QR front wheel fell out when he came up out of the ditch
onto a traffic lane. The attorney for the mother of said
miscreant argued that while Schwinns in his store had "do
not ride at night" stickers and also "do not ride without
properly securing wheel quick release" stickers, the brand
in question lacked both. The jury opined that the bicycles
we imported were nonconforming to 'accepted industry standards'.

My personal opinion is that U.S. courts have perpetrated some
extremely illogical rulings on the population.

An individual orders a cup of hot coffee. They are served a cup of hot
coffee. They then accept and pay for the cup of hot coffee and carry
it away. Subsequently they spill the hot coffee on themselves and it
is determined that it was the people who brewed the coffee that were
at fault.

Now you tell the story about the chap that steals a bicycle and it is
the seller who is at fault that he gets run over.

Here we don't have jury trials which means that one has to convince a
trained jurist that you are correct and I do not believe that they
will accept the premise that not tightening the axle nuts on a bicycle
sitting in your shop is the cause of a bicycle thief crashing. Nor
that spilling hot coffee on yourself is someone else's fault :-)

I suppose that ultimately someone will steal a bicycle and when caught
with the stolen goods, tried, convicted and sentenced, will than sue
the manufacturer of the bicycle since logically if "they" hadn't made
the bicycle it couldn't have been stolen....

It is obvious that "reality" in the U.S. is significantly different
than the rest of the world.

The OLD lady bought the coffee, set it between her legs as she sat on the front passenger seat of the stopped car in the drive-thru lane. Then she removed the lid of the coffee. The driver drove forwards which caused the very hot coffee to spill and scald her in a very sensitive region of her anatomy. IMHO, the fault was due to three people, #1, the woman for putting the hot coffe between her legs and then removing the lid, #2, her son for putting the car into motion whilst his mother had the opened coffee cup between her legs and lastly #3, the store for selling what the courts determined was OVERLY hot coffee.


You emphasize the word 'old' and yet most teenagers have
learned that hot coffee is hot. Maybe 'old' is not such a
critical factor here.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I emphasized the word 'old' because I'm pretty certain that the judge gave the payout he did due to her age and to where the injury was located. then again you'd think that her younger son who was the driver at the time would have had more sense than to putt he car into motion whilst an opened cup of coffee was sitting btween his mother's legs. Had the coffee cup lid been on the cup the hot coffee would not have spilled. Had the woman not had the cup between her legs she'd have not been scalded in an extremely sensitive region of the body. Had the son not put the car in motion whilst the opened coffee cup was whre it was it would not have spilled. In other words, blame was give to everyone *EXCCEPT* the idiots who caused the action in the first place = the customers.

Cheers

The judge did not award either injury or punitive amounts. It was a
jury trial and the jury awarded the amounts.

"They awarded Liebeck US$200,000 in compensatory damages, which was
then reduced by 20% to $160,000. In addition, they awarded her $2.7
million in punitive damages.

The jurors apparently arrived at this figure from Morgan's (Claimant's
Attorney) suggestion to penalize McDonald's for one or two days' worth
of coffee revenues, which were about $1.35 million per day. The judge
reduced punitive damages to $480,000, three times the compensatory
amount, for a total of $640,000. The decision was appealed by both
McDonald's and Liebeck in December 1994, but the parties settled out
of court for an undisclosed amount."
--
Cheers,

John B.

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

On 3/25/2017 9:19 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 8:19:41 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 3/25/2017 2:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I emphasized the word 'old' because I'm pretty certain that the judge gave the payout he did due to her age and to where the injury was located.

Wow, how are you certain of that?

The reality is that she got the payout because McDonald's was negligent
and admitted as much.

"During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700
claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims
involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This
history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of
this hazard."

A deep pockets firm like McDonalds probably as 700 claims from people claiming
their french fries are too sharp. They'll say they stabbed themselves in the
eye with a french fry.

Have you done a double-blind study on that with a statistically
significant sample?

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 17:16:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 3/25/2017 2:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I emphasized the word 'old' because I'm pretty certain that the judge gave the payout he did due to her age and to where the injury was located.

Wow, how are you certain of that?

The reality is that she got the payout because McDonald's was negligent
and admitted as much.

"During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700
claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims
involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This
history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of
this hazard."


That, like many of your posts is a bit misleading. the facts are that
during discover;

"documents obtained from McDonald's showed that from 1982 to 1992 the
company had received more than 700 reports of people burned by
McDonald's coffee to varying degrees of severity, and had settled
claims arising from scalding injuries for more than $500,000."

Note: Over a ten year period McDonald's had received, from their
operations in 65 countries (as of 1992), on the average, 70 reports a
year, or approximately 1.07 per country. and the average settlement
was about $700 per claimant. McDonalds offered Mrs. Liebeck $800 and
her attorney offered to settle for $90,000 which McDonalds refused.

McDonald's quality control manager, Christopher Appleton, testified
that this number of injuries was insufficient to cause the company to
evaluate its practices. He argued that all foods hotter than 130 °F
(54 °C) constituted a burn hazard, and that restaurants had more
pressing dangers to worry about. The plaintiffs argued that Appleton
conceded that McDonald's coffee would burn the mouth and throat if
consumed when served'

Note: this would seem to explain that the plaintiff was aware that the
coffee was hot enough to burn her.
--
Cheers,

John B.

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

On 3/26/2017 2:12 AM, John B. wrote:

Note: Over a ten year period McDonald's had received, from their
operations in 65 countries (as of 1992), on the average, 70 reports a
year, or approximately 1.07 per country. and the average settlement
was about $700 per claimant. McDonalds offered Mrs. Liebeck $800 and
her attorney offered to settle for $90,000 which McDonalds refused.

McDonald's quality control manager, Christopher Appleton, testified
that this number of injuries was insufficient to cause the company to
evaluate its practices. He argued that all foods hotter than 130 °F
(54 °C) constituted a burn hazard...

All foods hotter than 130 °F. For example, a cup of tea.

Note the recommended temperatures below:

http://www.itoen.com/preparing-tea 175°F - 212°F

http://theteaspot.com/how-to-brew.html 175°F - 212°F

http://the.republicoftea.com/library...-brew-hot-tea/
"short of boiling" to "boiling." Then "let it cool a moment. Sip."

Coffee drinkers are such wimps.

--
- Frank Krygowski

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

On 3/26/2017 1:30 AM, John B. wrote:


But seriously Frank, you buy a cup of coffee...

Whoa! PLEASE don't confuse me with "Sir Ridesalot."

--
- Frank Krygowski

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

If you arrange with Reelight to send

Please have them ship the bribe, errr... evaluation sample, to the
address below.

Did it work? Received any lights yet? Maybe from more corrupt, non-Danish
companies?
;-)

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights for Bicycles.
 

On Sun, 9 Apr 2017 14:15:04 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

If you arrange with Reelight to send

Please have them ship the bribe, errr... evaluation sample, to the
address below.

Did it work? Received any lights yet? Maybe from more corrupt, non-Danish
companies?
;-)

Yes and thank you for the StVZO K-1009 light. It miraculously arrived
in one piece on Friday. I installed four NiMh batteries and it works
as expected. I'll be going some measurements and ride testing after
next weekend. The connector on the bottom seems to be for DIN 33958
6v 3w dynamo power. I have a cheap bottle dynamo somewhere and will
give that a try. Measuring the lumens output with my lux meter method
will be a problem due to odd spot pattern. I'll use graph paper and
just count squares.
https://internetkaufhaus24.de/Produkte/frontscheinwerfer-led-30-lux/6168332
https://www.amazon.de/Frontscheinwerfer-LED-LUX-FRONTSCHEINWERFER-40208/dp/B01J9NWJHU

I also bought a used Gygolite Streak 280 with a rather old battery.
The replacement battery and missing mount should arrive shortly, which
I'll add to my testing.
http://cygolite.com/product/streak-280-usb/
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Cygolite%20Streak%20280/

Thanks again.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

The University of Aalborg Study on Daytime Flashing Lights forBicycles.
 

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 9 Apr 2017 14:15:04 +0200, Sepp Ruf wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

If you arrange with Reelight to send

Please have them ship the bribe, errr... evaluation sample, to the
address below.

Did it work? Received any lights yet? Maybe from more corrupt, non-Danish
companies?
;-)

Yes and thank you for the StVZO K-1009 light. It miraculously arrived
in one piece on Friday. I installed four NiMh batteries and it works
as expected. I'll be going some measurements and ride testing after
next weekend. The connector on the bottom seems to be for DIN 33958
6v 3w dynamo power.

Would be nice. For a dirt-cheap lamp, an oddly luxurious undocumented
feature? On roughly similar lamps, I've seen a "4AA cooker" charger
connection there. DIN 33958 includes dynamo powered as well as purely
battery powered lighting equipment.

I have a cheap bottle dynamo somewhere and will
give that a try. Measuring the lumens output with my lux meter method
will be a problem due to odd spot pattern.

This no-frills StVZO spot, while not representing the bare legal minimum
which would resemble an I-beam profile, was probably designed quite
pragmatically right along the TA-23 / DIN-33958 measurement grid:
http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Komponenten/Scheinwerfer/ta23zonen.gif

I'll use graph paper and just count squares.

Sounds like work.

https://internetkaufhaus24.de/Produkte/frontscheinwerfer-led-30-lux/6168332
https://www.amazon.de/Frontscheinwerfer-LED-LUX-FRONTSCHEINWERFER-40208/dp/B01J9NWJHU

These seem to be somewhat weaker, older versions. K numbers don't really
identify specific lamp builds: Once issued, one and the same number might be
reused by the manufacturer with new lamps - even if lab tests need to be
performed and paid anew.

I also bought a used Gygolite Streak 280 with a rather old battery.
The replacement battery and missing mount should arrive shortly, which
I'll add to my testing.
http://cygolite.com/product/streak-280-usb/
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Cygolite%20Streak%20280/

Likely to look brighter on high and more even on medium than the K-1109. As
always, doesn't look as if it could do beam evenness and low-glare reach at
the same time.