tubeless tires tech
 

On 2/25/2019 11:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:08:43 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:55:47 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:29:39 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 1:03:17 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2019 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Damn. Sounds complicated and fussy.


It's not that bad once you figure it out. There are a few tricks though - like coating the tire bead with sealant; using two smaller treatments of sealant rather than one heavier treatment. Until you get it right you're just as likely to experience a slow leak as you are to get a good seal. My last installation of tubeless-ready tires on tubeless rims on my MTB lasted for the whole springfall season with no problems. I'm lucky to get 30 miles a week on the MTB though.

All that makes gluing on a tubular sound easy :-)


Our grandfathers managed that in the 1890s without youtube.

Lord, the handicaps that the old folks operated under. It is simply
amazing that the survived at all.

The deal is that back in the bad old days, you could get a cheap cotton tubular . . . for cheap. I had bizarre crappy tubulars from Mexico and Clement Elvezias and 50s for $10 or so, or Vittoria Mondiales for under $10. They were SOP for sport bikes and nothing special. Then we got first generation Turbos or Mavic Elans, which rode like rocks and were not really competitive with even cheap tubulars. Then we got better clinchers like the Michelin Supercomp HDs and others. Then tubulars turned into race day novelties -- and really expensive novelites at that. Now, I can get a clincher that, with a latex tube, will give me lower rolling resistance than a well-glued tubular and way better rolling resistance than a poorly glued tubular. And it will cost way less and doesn't have to be glued or unstitched/restitched if it goes flat. My tubulars always looked wrong after a repair. I don't know why anyone bothers with tubulars except those in search of the last word in light weight --
and with a high budget and time to fuss with gluing. If you gave our forefathers a choice of a tubular versus a clincher, they would go with the clincher and wonder why non-racers used anything else. They would also go with indoor plumbing and cars.


Memory is not always reliable and I'm as vulnerable as
anyone but ISTR basic cotton tubulars in 1971[1] for $6 & up
with Clement Criterium Silk tires at $12 or so. If we take
your midprice $10 tire over to this page:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

current value is $62 and so I conclude that your basic
cotton tubular has become a relatively better value in 40
some years while premium tubulars have become painfully
expensive.

People like what they like, and both systems work, but I
will stay with my tubs thanks.

[1] I was riding d'Alessandro and Wolber mostly then.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

tubeless tires tech
 

On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:52:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/25/2019 11:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:08:43 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:55:47 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:29:39 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 1:03:17 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2019 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Damn. Sounds complicated and fussy.


It's not that bad once you figure it out. There are a few tricks though - like coating the tire bead with sealant; using two smaller treatments of sealant rather than one heavier treatment. Until you get it right you're just as likely to experience a slow leak as you are to get a good seal. My last installation of tubeless-ready tires on tubeless rims on my MTB lasted for the whole springfall season with no problems. I'm lucky to get 30 miles a week on the MTB though.

All that makes gluing on a tubular sound easy :-)


Our grandfathers managed that in the 1890s without youtube.

Lord, the handicaps that the old folks operated under. It is simply
amazing that the survived at all.

The deal is that back in the bad old days, you could get a cheap cotton tubular . . . for cheap. I had bizarre crappy tubulars from Mexico and Clement Elvezias and 50s for $10 or so, or Vittoria Mondiales for under $10. They were SOP for sport bikes and nothing special. Then we got first generation Turbos or Mavic Elans, which rode like rocks and were not really competitive with even cheap tubulars. Then we got better clinchers like the Michelin Supercomp HDs and others. Then tubulars turned into race day novelties -- and really expensive novelites at that. Now, I can get a clincher that, with a latex tube, will give me lower rolling resistance than a well-glued tubular and way better rolling resistance than a poorly glued tubular. And it will cost way less and doesn't have to be glued or unstitched/restitched if it goes flat. My tubulars always looked wrong after a repair. I don't know why anyone bothers with tubulars except those in search of the last word in light weight --
and with a high budget and time to fuss with gluing. If you gave our forefathers a choice of a tubular versus a clincher, they would go with the clincher and wonder why non-racers used anything else. They would also go with indoor plumbing and cars.


Memory is not always reliable and I'm as vulnerable as
anyone but ISTR basic cotton tubulars in 1971[1] for $6 & up
with Clement Criterium Silk tires at $12 or so. If we take
your midprice $10 tire over to this page:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

current value is $62 and so I conclude that your basic
cotton tubular has become a relatively better value in 40
some years while premium tubulars have become painfully
expensive.

People like what they like, and both systems work, but I
will stay with my tubs thanks.

[1] I was riding d'Alessandro and Wolber mostly then.

Somewhat later in time ('76): http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/PaloAlto-76/ This is actually where I bought tires. I'm sure they were cheaper 5 years earlier. I did buy some sub-$10 tubulars in the '72 time frame for my PX10, but they were sale-table junk for the crappy Normandy/Monthlery wheels.

I still think the non-racer ancients would be plenty content with the current crop of mid-priced lightweight clinchers.

-- Jay Beattie.

tubeless tires tech
 

On 2/26/2019 11:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:52:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/25/2019 11:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:08:43 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:55:47 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:29:39 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 1:03:17 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2019 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Damn. Sounds complicated and fussy.


It's not that bad once you figure it out. There are a few tricks though - like coating the tire bead with sealant; using two smaller treatments of sealant rather than one heavier treatment. Until you get it right you're just as likely to experience a slow leak as you are to get a good seal. My last installation of tubeless-ready tires on tubeless rims on my MTB lasted for the whole springfall season with no problems. I'm lucky to get 30 miles a week on the MTB though.

All that makes gluing on a tubular sound easy :-)


Our grandfathers managed that in the 1890s without youtube.

Lord, the handicaps that the old folks operated under. It is simply
amazing that the survived at all.

The deal is that back in the bad old days, you could get a cheap cotton tubular . . . for cheap. I had bizarre crappy tubulars from Mexico and Clement Elvezias and 50s for $10 or so, or Vittoria Mondiales for under $10. They were SOP for sport bikes and nothing special. Then we got first generation Turbos or Mavic Elans, which rode like rocks and were not really competitive with even cheap tubulars. Then we got better clinchers like the Michelin Supercomp HDs and others. Then tubulars turned into race day novelties -- and really expensive novelites at that. Now, I can get a clincher that, with a latex tube, will give me lower rolling resistance than a well-glued tubular and way better rolling resistance than a poorly glued tubular. And it will cost way less and doesn't have to be glued or unstitched/restitched if it goes flat. My tubulars always looked wrong after a repair. I don't know why anyone bothers with tubulars except those in search of the last word in light weight -
-
and with a high budget and time to fuss with gluing. If you gave our forefathers a choice of a tubular versus a clincher, they would go with the clincher and wonder why non-racers used anything else. They would also go with indoor plumbing and cars.


Memory is not always reliable and I'm as vulnerable as
anyone but ISTR basic cotton tubulars in 1971[1] for $6 & up
with Clement Criterium Silk tires at $12 or so. If we take
your midprice $10 tire over to this page:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

current value is $62 and so I conclude that your basic
cotton tubular has become a relatively better value in 40
some years while premium tubulars have become painfully
expensive.

People like what they like, and both systems work, but I
will stay with my tubs thanks.

[1] I was riding d'Alessandro and Wolber mostly then.

Somewhat later in time ('76): http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/PaloAlto-76/ This is actually where I bought tires. I'm sure they were cheaper 5 years earlier. I did buy some sub-$10 tubulars in the '72 time frame for my PX10, but they were sale-table junk for the crappy Normandy/Monthlery wheels.

I still think the non-racer ancients would be plenty content with the current crop of mid-priced lightweight clinchers.


Yes, I think you're right they certainly would. Trouble is,
the clincher choices then were Michelin Fifty on down and
the rims were all abysmal.

Modern tires started with the Michelin Elan/Mavic E. (Elans
would not mount on other rims with non-hooked straight sides)

p.s. 1970 through 1980 were dramatic, one might say
cataclysmic, years for price inflation. Even a couple years'
difference show significant dollar buying power devaluation.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

tubeless tires tech
 

On 2/26/2019 12:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:

On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:52:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 11:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:

On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:08:43 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:55:47 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:29:39 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 1:03:17 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2019 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Damn. Sounds complicated and fussy.


It's not that bad once you figure it out. There are a few tricks though - like coating the tire bead with sealant; using two smaller treatments of sealant rather than one heavier treatment. Until you get it right you're just as likely to experience a slow leak as you are to get a good seal. My last installation of tubeless-ready tires on tubeless rims on my MTB lasted for the whole springfall season with no problems. I'm lucky to get 30 miles a week on the MTB though.

All that makes gluing on a tubular sound easy :-)


Our grandfathers managed that in the 1890s without youtube.

Lord, the handicaps that the old folks operated under. It is simply
amazing that the survived at all.

The deal is that back in the bad old days, you could get a cheap cotton tubular . . . for cheap. I had bizarre crappy tubulars from Mexico and Clement Elvezias and 50s for $10 or so, or Vittoria Mondiales for under $10. They were SOP for sport bikes and nothing special. Then we got first generation Turbos or Mavic Elans, which rode like rocks and were not really competitive with even cheap tubulars. Then we got better clinchers like the Michelin Supercomp HDs and others. Then tubulars turned into race day novelties -- and really expensive novelites at that. Now, I can get a clincher that, with a latex tube, will give me lower rolling resistance than a well-glued tubular and way better rolling resistance than a poorly glued tubular. And it will cost way less and doesn't have to be glued or unstitched/restitched if it goes flat. My tubulars always looked wrong after a repair. I don't know why anyone bothers with tubulars except those in search of the last word in light weight --

and with a high budget and time to fuss with gluing. If you gave our forefathers a choice of a tubular versus a clincher, they would go with the clincher and wonder why non-racers used anything else. They would also go with indoor plumbing and cars.


Memory is not always reliable and I'm as vulnerable as
anyone but ISTR basic cotton tubulars in 1971[1] for $6 & up
with Clement Criterium Silk tires at $12 or so. If we take
your midprice $10 tire over to this page:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

current value is $62 and so I conclude that your basic
cotton tubular has become a relatively better value in 40
some years while premium tubulars have become painfully
expensive.

People like what they like, and both systems work, but I
will stay with my tubs thanks.

[1] I was riding d'Alessandro and Wolber mostly then.


Somewhat later in time ('76): http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/PaloAlto-76/ This is actually where I bought tires. I'm sure they were cheaper 5 years earlier. I did buy some sub-$10 tubulars in the '72 time frame for my PX10, but they were sale-table junk for the crappy Normandy/Monthlery wheels.


That was about the year my bike shop buddy loaned me a set of wheels
with Clement Campionato del Mundo Seta tubulars, to convert me to the
tubular religion. After a ride, I parked my bike in the southern sun and
it blew a big hole right in the top of the tire. (I didn't use fenders
in those days.)

As Andrew said, memory is not always reliable. But I could swear I paid
him a lot more than $27.50 to replace that tire.

--
- Frank Krygowski

tubeless tires tech
 

On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:07:13 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/26/2019 12:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:52:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/25/2019 11:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:08:43 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:55:47 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:29:39 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 1:03:17 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2019 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Damn. Sounds complicated and fussy.


It's not that bad once you figure it out. There are a few tricks though - like coating the tire bead with sealant; using two smaller treatments of sealant rather than one heavier treatment. Until you get it right you're just as likely to experience a slow leak as you are to get a good seal.. My last installation of tubeless-ready tires on tubeless rims on my MTB lasted for the whole springfall season with no problems. I'm lucky to get 30 miles a week on the MTB though.

All that makes gluing on a tubular sound easy :-)


Our grandfathers managed that in the 1890s without youtube.

Lord, the handicaps that the old folks operated under. It is simply
amazing that the survived at all.

The deal is that back in the bad old days, you could get a cheap cotton tubular . . . for cheap. I had bizarre crappy tubulars from Mexico and Clement Elvezias and 50s for $10 or so, or Vittoria Mondiales for under $10. They were SOP for sport bikes and nothing special. Then we got first generation Turbos or Mavic Elans, which rode like rocks and were not really competitive with even cheap tubulars. Then we got better clinchers like the Michelin Supercomp HDs and others. Then tubulars turned into race day novelties -- and really expensive novelites at that. Now, I can get a clincher that, with a latex tube, will give me lower rolling resistance than a well-glued tubular and way better rolling resistance than a poorly glued tubular. And it will cost way less and doesn't have to be glued or unstitched/restitched if it goes flat. My tubulars always looked wrong after a repair. I don't know why anyone bothers with tubulars except those in search of the last word in light weight --
and with a high budget and time to fuss with gluing. If you gave our forefathers a choice of a tubular versus a clincher, they would go with the clincher and wonder why non-racers used anything else. They would also go with indoor plumbing and cars.


Memory is not always reliable and I'm as vulnerable as
anyone but ISTR basic cotton tubulars in 1971[1] for $6 & up
with Clement Criterium Silk tires at $12 or so. If we take
your midprice $10 tire over to this page:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

current value is $62 and so I conclude that your basic
cotton tubular has become a relatively better value in 40
some years while premium tubulars have become painfully
expensive.

People like what they like, and both systems work, but I
will stay with my tubs thanks.

[1] I was riding d'Alessandro and Wolber mostly then.

Somewhat later in time ('76): http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/PaloAlto-76/ This is actually where I bought tires. I'm sure they were cheaper 5 years earlier. I did buy some sub-$10 tubulars in the '72 time frame for my PX10, but they were sale-table junk for the crappy Normandy/Monthlery wheels.

That was about the year my bike shop buddy loaned me a set of wheels
with Clement Campionato del Mundo Seta tubulars, to convert me to the
tubular religion. After a ride, I parked my bike in the southern sun and
it blew a big hole right in the top of the tire. (I didn't use fenders
in those days.)

As Andrew said, memory is not always reliable. But I could swear I paid
him a lot more than $27.50 to replace that tire.

Did you not convert? Oddly, I thought silks felt squishy and preferred cotton tubulars -- probably psychosomatic, but there was no doubt that tubulars were better than Elans and first generation Turbos. Turbos were only marginally more convenient than tubulars because you had to wrestle them on to the rims. The early Kevlar beads were super tight.

-- Jay Beattie.

tubeless tires tech
 

On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 10:07:13 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/26/2019 12:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:52:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/25/2019 11:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:08:43 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:55:47 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:29:39 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 1:03:17 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2019 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Damn. Sounds complicated and fussy.


It's not that bad once you figure it out. There are a few tricks though - like coating the tire bead with sealant; using two smaller treatments of sealant rather than one heavier treatment. Until you get it right you're just as likely to experience a slow leak as you are to get a good seal.. My last installation of tubeless-ready tires on tubeless rims on my MTB lasted for the whole springfall season with no problems. I'm lucky to get 30 miles a week on the MTB though.

All that makes gluing on a tubular sound easy :-)


Our grandfathers managed that in the 1890s without youtube.

Lord, the handicaps that the old folks operated under. It is simply
amazing that the survived at all.

The deal is that back in the bad old days, you could get a cheap cotton tubular . . . for cheap. I had bizarre crappy tubulars from Mexico and Clement Elvezias and 50s for $10 or so, or Vittoria Mondiales for under $10. They were SOP for sport bikes and nothing special. Then we got first generation Turbos or Mavic Elans, which rode like rocks and were not really competitive with even cheap tubulars. Then we got better clinchers like the Michelin Supercomp HDs and others. Then tubulars turned into race day novelties -- and really expensive novelites at that. Now, I can get a clincher that, with a latex tube, will give me lower rolling resistance than a well-glued tubular and way better rolling resistance than a poorly glued tubular. And it will cost way less and doesn't have to be glued or unstitched/restitched if it goes flat. My tubulars always looked wrong after a repair. I don't know why anyone bothers with tubulars except those in search of the last word in light weight --
and with a high budget and time to fuss with gluing. If you gave our forefathers a choice of a tubular versus a clincher, they would go with the clincher and wonder why non-racers used anything else. They would also go with indoor plumbing and cars.


Memory is not always reliable and I'm as vulnerable as
anyone but ISTR basic cotton tubulars in 1971[1] for $6 & up
with Clement Criterium Silk tires at $12 or so. If we take
your midprice $10 tire over to this page:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

current value is $62 and so I conclude that your basic
cotton tubular has become a relatively better value in 40
some years while premium tubulars have become painfully
expensive.

People like what they like, and both systems work, but I
will stay with my tubs thanks.

[1] I was riding d'Alessandro and Wolber mostly then.

Somewhat later in time ('76): http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/PaloAlto-76/ This is actually where I bought tires. I'm sure they were cheaper 5 years earlier. I did buy some sub-$10 tubulars in the '72 time frame for my PX10, but they were sale-table junk for the crappy Normandy/Monthlery wheels.

That was about the year my bike shop buddy loaned me a set of wheels
with Clement Campionato del Mundo Seta tubulars, to convert me to the
tubular religion. After a ride, I parked my bike in the southern sun and
it blew a big hole right in the top of the tire. (I didn't use fenders
in those days.)

As Andrew said, memory is not always reliable. But I could swear I paid
him a lot more than $27.50 to replace that tire.


Sew-ups are notorious for that. I learned the hard way to let some air out before loading the bike in the car. Nothing like driving home on a hot day after a 3 hour road race and having a sew-up explode from being left in the back of a hatchback. The driver was lucky he kept the car on the road.

tubeless tires tech
 

On 2/26/2019 11:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:

On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:07:13 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 2/26/2019 12:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:

On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:52:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/25/2019 11:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:08:43 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:55:47 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:29:39 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 1:03:17 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2019 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Damn. Sounds complicated and fussy.


It's not that bad once you figure it out. There are a few tricks though - like coating the tire bead with sealant; using two smaller treatments of sealant rather than one heavier treatment. Until you get it right you're just as likely to experience a slow leak as you are to get a good seal. My last installation of tubeless-ready tires on tubeless rims on my MTB lasted for the whole springfall season with no problems. I'm lucky to get 30 miles a week on the MTB though.

All that makes gluing on a tubular sound easy :-)


Our grandfathers managed that in the 1890s without youtube.

Lord, the handicaps that the old folks operated under. It is simply
amazing that the survived at all.

The deal is that back in the bad old days, you could get a cheap cotton tubular . . . for cheap. I had bizarre crappy tubulars from Mexico and Clement Elvezias and 50s for $10 or so, or Vittoria Mondiales for under $10. They were SOP for sport bikes and nothing special. Then we got first generation Turbos or Mavic Elans, which rode like rocks and were not really competitive with even cheap tubulars. Then we got better clinchers like the Michelin Supercomp HDs and others. Then tubulars turned into race day novelties -- and really expensive novelites at that. Now, I can get a clincher that, with a latex tube, will give me lower rolling resistance than a well-glued tubular and way better rolling resistance than a poorly glued tubular. And it will cost way less and doesn't have to be glued or unstitched/restitched if it goes flat. My tubulars always looked wrong after a repair. I don't know why anyone bothers with tubulars except those in search of the last word in light weight --
and with a high budget and time to fuss with gluing. If you gave our forefathers a choice of a tubular versus a clincher, they would go with the clincher and wonder why non-racers used anything else. They would also go with indoor plumbing and cars.


Memory is not always reliable and I'm as vulnerable as
anyone but ISTR basic cotton tubulars in 1971[1] for $6 & up
with Clement Criterium Silk tires at $12 or so. If we take
your midprice $10 tire over to this page:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

current value is $62 and so I conclude that your basic
cotton tubular has become a relatively better value in 40
some years while premium tubulars have become painfully
expensive.

People like what they like, and both systems work, but I
will stay with my tubs thanks.

[1] I was riding d'Alessandro and Wolber mostly then.

Somewhat later in time ('76): http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/PaloAlto-76/ This is actually where I bought tires. I'm sure they were cheaper 5 years earlier. I did buy some sub-$10 tubulars in the '72 time frame for my PX10, but they were sale-table junk for the crappy Normandy/Monthlery wheels.


That was about the year my bike shop buddy loaned me a set of wheels
with Clement Campionato del Mundo Seta tubulars, to convert me to the
tubular religion. After a ride, I parked my bike in the southern sun and
it blew a big hole right in the top of the tire. (I didn't use fenders
in those days.)

As Andrew said, memory is not always reliable. But I could swear I paid
him a lot more than $27.50 to replace that tire.


Did you not convert?


Nope. I decided that event proved they were too fragile for me.


Oddly, I thought silks felt squishy and preferred cotton tubulars -- probably psychosomatic, but there was no doubt that tubulars were better than Elans and first generation Turbos.


Oh, I liked the feel of those tubulars. Just not enough to put up with
the downsides. Others' MMV of course.


--
- Frank Krygowski

tubeless tires tech
 

On 2/27/2019 11:24 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 10:07:13 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

That was about the year my bike shop buddy loaned me a set of wheels
with Clement Campionato del Mundo Seta tubulars, to convert me to the
tubular religion. After a ride, I parked my bike in the southern sun and
it blew a big hole right in the top of the tire. (I didn't use fenders
in those days.)

As Andrew said, memory is not always reliable. But I could swear I paid
him a lot more than $27.50 to replace that tire.


Sew-ups are notorious for that. I learned the hard way to let some air out before loading the bike in the car. Nothing like driving home on a hot day after a 3 hour road race and having a sew-up explode from being left in the back of a hatchback. The driver was lucky he kept the car on the road.

The last Avocet slick that I had on my bike exploded in a hot car.
Fortunately the car was parked and I wasn't in it at the time.

--
- Frank Krygowski

tubeless tires tech
 

On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 11:24:42 AM UTC-5, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 10:07:13 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/26/2019 12:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 26, 2019 at 7:52:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/25/2019 11:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:08:43 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:55:47 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/25/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:29:39 -0800 (PST), Zen Cycle
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 1:03:17 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2019 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/

Damn. Sounds complicated and fussy.


It's not that bad once you figure it out. There are a few tricks though - like coating the tire bead with sealant; using two smaller treatments of sealant rather than one heavier treatment. Until you get it right you're just as likely to experience a slow leak as you are to get a good seal. My last installation of tubeless-ready tires on tubeless rims on my MTB lasted for the whole springfall season with no problems. I'm lucky to get 30 miles a week on the MTB though.

All that makes gluing on a tubular sound easy :-)


Our grandfathers managed that in the 1890s without youtube.

Lord, the handicaps that the old folks operated under. It is simply
amazing that the survived at all.

The deal is that back in the bad old days, you could get a cheap cotton tubular . . . for cheap. I had bizarre crappy tubulars from Mexico and Clement Elvezias and 50s for $10 or so, or Vittoria Mondiales for under $10. They were SOP for sport bikes and nothing special. Then we got first generation Turbos or Mavic Elans, which rode like rocks and were not really competitive with even cheap tubulars. Then we got better clinchers like the Michelin Supercomp HDs and others. Then tubulars turned into race day novelties -- and really expensive novelites at that. Now, I can get a clincher that, with a latex tube, will give me lower rolling resistance than a well-glued tubular and way better rolling resistance than a poorly glued tubular. And it will cost way less and doesn't have to be glued or unstitched/restitched if it goes flat. My tubulars always looked wrong after a repair. I don't know why anyone bothers with tubulars except those in search of the last word in light weight --
and with a high budget and time to fuss with gluing. If you gave our forefathers a choice of a tubular versus a clincher, they would go with the clincher and wonder why non-racers used anything else. They would also go with indoor plumbing and cars.


Memory is not always reliable and I'm as vulnerable as
anyone but ISTR basic cotton tubulars in 1971[1] for $6 & up
with Clement Criterium Silk tires at $12 or so. If we take
your midprice $10 tire over to this page:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

current value is $62 and so I conclude that your basic
cotton tubular has become a relatively better value in 40
some years while premium tubulars have become painfully
expensive.

People like what they like, and both systems work, but I
will stay with my tubs thanks.

[1] I was riding d'Alessandro and Wolber mostly then.

Somewhat later in time ('76): http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/PaloAlto-76/ This is actually where I bought tires. I'm sure they were cheaper 5 years earlier. I did buy some sub-$10 tubulars in the '72 time frame for my PX10, but they were sale-table junk for the crappy Normandy/Monthlery wheels.

That was about the year my bike shop buddy loaned me a set of wheels
with Clement Campionato del Mundo Seta tubulars, to convert me to the
tubular religion. After a ride, I parked my bike in the southern sun and
it blew a big hole right in the top of the tire. (I didn't use fenders
in those days.)

As Andrew said, memory is not always reliable. But I could swear I paid
him a lot more than $27.50 to replace that tire.


Sew-ups are notorious for that. I learned the hard way to let some air out before loading the bike in the car. Nothing like driving home on a hot day after a 3 hour road race and having a sew-up explode from being left in the back of a hatchback. The driver was lucky he kept the car on the road.

I was sitting in the house one day in 1989 talking with my dad after I'd had a long ride on my tubular tire bicycle. The bicycle was sitting on the front verandah. Suddenly there was what sounded like a gun shot followed shortly after by another. I told my day it sounded like a tire blew. We went out and sure enough both tires were completely flat. I'd never heard of that happening before or since. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who experienced a tubular blowing after a ride.

Thanks and cheers