MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd Ullrich in the
German language bike NG posted this link but it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241

Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his MTB in grass
after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke and flames. He and two
other guys were unable to put out the fast-spreading fire. Two
helicopters over 100 fire fighters were required to get this under control.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 12:15:26 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd Ullrich in the
German language bike NG posted this link but it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241

Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his MTB in grass
after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke and flames. He and two
other guys were unable to put out the fast-spreading fire. Two
helicopters over 100 fire fighters were required to get this under control.

The scoffers are so sorry to have scoffed! We will now proceed to hysteria! http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/w...p/p03lcphh.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

BTW -- note to Swiss MTB rider: if your bike has flaming hot rotors, lay it down on the right side or lean it against a tree.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/26/2018 12:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd Ullrich in the
German language bike NG posted this link but it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241


Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his MTB in grass
after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke and flames. He and two
other guys were unable to put out the fast-spreading fire. Two
helicopters over 100 fire fighters were required to get this under control.

Grant Petersen was right.
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/26/2018 2:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd
Ullrich in the German language bike NG posted this link but
it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241


Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his
MTB in grass after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke
and flames. He and two other guys were unable to put out the
fast-spreading fire. Two helicopters over 100 fire fighters
were required to get this under control.


When an e-bike battery blows up and immolates Cameron Park,
THAT will be news.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-26 13:57, sms wrote:
On 3/26/2018 12:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd Ullrich in
the German language bike NG posted this link but it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241


Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his MTB in
grass after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke and flames. He
and two other guys were unable to put out the fast-spreading fire. Two
helicopters over 100 fire fighters were required to get this under
control.

Grant Petersen was right.
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes


Quote "But the idea that hub-disc brakes are an advancement or even
desirable for general purpose riding ... is nonsense"

If that's really his reasoning then he hasn't got a clue. Yesterday I
coasted back down a hill with a friend and a nasty hail storm set in. He
had disc brakes and could always stop on a dime. I was on my road bike
with rim brakes and they started to fail miserably. I had to keep them
partially engaged almost the whole time to make sure I had enough brake
actions when needed.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-26 14:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/26/2018 2:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd
Ullrich in the German language bike NG posted this link but
it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241



Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his
MTB in grass after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke
and flames. He and two other guys were unable to put out the
fast-spreading fire. Two helicopters over 100 fire fighters
were required to get this under control.


When an e-bike battery blows up and immolates Cameron Park, THAT will be
news.


This one in 2017 was caused by a failing E-bike battery. Kept 70 fire
fighters and 30 fire trucks busy:

http://www.kn-online.de/Nachrichten/...nd-in-Parkhaus

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4E8oUHVcAEjtoN.jpg

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/26/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 13:57, sms wrote:
On 3/26/2018 12:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd Ullrich in
the German language bike NG posted this link but it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241



Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his MTB in
grass after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke and flames. He
and two other guys were unable to put out the fast-spreading fire. Two
helicopters over 100 fire fighters were required to get this under
control.

Grant Petersen was right.
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes


Quote "But the idea that hub-disc brakes are an advancement or even
desirable for general purpose riding ... is nonsense"

If that's really his reasoning then he hasn't got a clue. Yesterday I
coasted back down a hill with a friend and a nasty hail storm set in. He
had disc brakes and could always stop on a dime. I was on my road bike
with rim brakes and they started to fail miserably. I had to keep them
partially engaged almost the whole time to make sure I had enough brake
actions when needed.

You had to squeeze your levers almost the whole time?

Oh, the humanity!


--
- Frank Krygowski

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-26 15:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/26/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 13:57, sms wrote:
On 3/26/2018 12:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd Ullrich in
the German language bike NG posted this link but it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241



Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his MTB in
grass after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke and flames. He
and two other guys were unable to put out the fast-spreading fire. Two
helicopters over 100 fire fighters were required to get this under
control.

Grant Petersen was right.
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes


Quote "But the idea that hub-disc brakes are an advancement or even
desirable for general purpose riding ... is nonsense"

If that's really his reasoning then he hasn't got a clue. Yesterday I
coasted back down a hill with a friend and a nasty hail storm set in.
He had disc brakes and could always stop on a dime. I was on my road
bike with rim brakes and they started to fail miserably. I had to keep
them partially engaged almost the whole time to make sure I had enough
brake actions when needed.

You had to squeeze your levers almost the whole time?

Oh, the humanity!


It's not the squeezing, it's the constant grinding noise. Grinding noise
+ several miles = rim abrasion.

Disc brakes are simply superior in that and many other domains.

Interestingly, the grinding noise from the Koolstop pads was worse than
from the much cheaper Clarks pads. Braking efficiency in that weather
was equally lousy.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 27/03/18 09:27, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 15:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/26/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:


Quote "But the idea that hub-disc brakes are an advancement or even
desirable for general purpose riding ... is nonsense"

If that's really his reasoning then he hasn't got a clue. Yesterday I
coasted back down a hill with a friend and a nasty hail storm set in.
He had disc brakes and could always stop on a dime. I was on my road
bike with rim brakes and they started to fail miserably. I had to keep
them partially engaged almost the whole time to make sure I had enough
brake actions when needed.

You had to squeeze your levers almost the whole time?

Oh, the humanity!


It's not the squeezing, it's the constant grinding noise. Grinding noise
+ several miles = rim abrasion.

Disc brakes are simply superior in that and many other domains.

Interestingly, the grinding noise from the Koolstop pads was worse than
from the much cheaper Clarks pads. Braking efficiency in that weather
was equally lousy.


I just got home from a ride in the rain. I used my rim brakes for quite
a way down the 2km descent to home. I didn't notice any grinding noise.
I washed a little aluminium oxide from the rims and brakes when I got
home.

No big deal.

--
JS

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 7:05:08 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 27/03/18 09:27, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 15:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/26/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:


Quote "But the idea that hub-disc brakes are an advancement or even
desirable for general purpose riding ... is nonsense"

If that's really his reasoning then he hasn't got a clue. Yesterday I
coasted back down a hill with a friend and a nasty hail storm set in.
He had disc brakes and could always stop on a dime. I was on my road
bike with rim brakes and they started to fail miserably. I had to keep
them partially engaged almost the whole time to make sure I had enough
brake actions when needed.

You had to squeeze your levers almost the whole time?

Oh, the humanity!


It's not the squeezing, it's the constant grinding noise. Grinding noise
+ several miles = rim abrasion.

Disc brakes are simply superior in that and many other domains.

Interestingly, the grinding noise from the Koolstop pads was worse than
from the much cheaper Clarks pads. Braking efficiency in that weather
was equally lousy.


I just got home from a ride in the rain. I used my rim brakes for quite
a way down the 2km descent to home. I didn't notice any grinding noise.
I washed a little aluminium oxide from the rims and brakes when I got
home.

No big deal.

Road discs are relatively new, at least for an old guy like me. I rode in the rain for decades with rim brakes. I didn't die.

But, discs are better in the rain -- they stop better and don't grind down rims, which can happen after months of riding in the rain, particularly for a heavier rider who uses a lot of braking force. I work with a big guy who was going through a pair or rims every two years, and he paid others to re-rim his wheels -- so he spent some real dough. He shifted to discs a couple of years ago. I've been on a commuter with cable discs for 12 years and a year or two on hydraulics for the fast rain bike. Its nifty being a bicycle plumber.

-- Jay Beattie.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 13:57:31 -0700, sms
wrote:

Grant Petersen was right. https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes

Well, he kinda often is...

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 8:42:44 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 13:57:31 -0700, sms
wrote:

Grant Petersen was right. https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes

Well, he kinda often is...

He's right for him. Personally, I think his bikes look like Victorian reproductions. https://78.media.tumblr.com/79e9dcf8...3ngpo8_540.jpg

Not that I hate steel, but if I were buying a steel all-in-one bike, I'd get one with discs because I ride in the rain a lot -- most days this time of year. You have more choices with tires and can even switch between wheels sizes if that's your thing. Cable discs are easy to install and maintain although pad life is shorter. Hydraulics are awesome but you have to do some plumbing and the concept of a hydraulic system on a bike may be too much for some.

-- Jay Beattie.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-27 07:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 8:42:44 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 13:57:31 -0700, sms
wrote:

Grant Petersen was right.
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes

Well, he kinda often is...

He's right for him. Personally, I think his bikes look like Victorian
reproductions.
https://78.media.tumblr.com/79e9dcf8...3ngpo8_540.jpg

Not that I hate steel, but if I were buying a steel all-in-one bike,
I'd get one with discs because I ride in the rain a lot -- most days
this time of year.


Hard rain or hail like here on Sunday is the worst. It seems to splatter
up whatever gunk in on the surface and then the rim brake pads try to
massage that into the aluminum. It becomes evident when stopping under a
bridge and seeing "fuzz" on the rim end of the spokes but none towards
the hub.


... You have more choices with tires and can even
switch between wheels sizes if that's your thing. Cable discs are
easy to install and maintain although pad life is shorter. Hydraulics
are awesome but you have to do some plumbing and the concept of a
hydraulic system on a bike may be too much for some.


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/26/2018 3:27 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 15:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/26/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 13:57, sms wrote:
On 3/26/2018 12:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd Ullrich in
the German language bike NG posted this link but it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241




Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his MTB in
grass after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke and flames. He
and two other guys were unable to put out the fast-spreading fire. Two
helicopters over 100 fire fighters were required to get this under
control.

Grant Petersen was right.
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes


Quote "But the idea that hub-disc brakes are an advancement or even
desirable for general purpose riding ... is nonsense"

If that's really his reasoning then he hasn't got a clue. Yesterday I
coasted back down a hill with a friend and a nasty hail storm set in.
He had disc brakes and could always stop on a dime. I was on my road
bike with rim brakes and they started to fail miserably. I had to keep
them partially engaged almost the whole time to make sure I had enough
brake actions when needed.

You had to squeeze your levers almost the whole time?

Oh, the humanity!


It's not the squeezing, it's the constant grinding noise. Grinding noise
+ several miles = rim abrasion.

Disc brakes are simply superior in that and many other domains.

I still have a Arai drum brake wheel for my Trek tandem. For long steep
descents on a tandem, you really have to watch out for rims heating to
the point where you can get a blowout.

I suspect that not many non-disc brake tandems, other than the el-cheapo
BSO tandems, are being sold anymore. Santana does have one entry-level
model where the disc brake is optional.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-27 09:54, sms wrote:
On 3/26/2018 3:27 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 15:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/26/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 13:57, sms wrote:
On 3/26/2018 12:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
Remember when some folks here scoffed at that risk? Bernd Ullrich in
the German language bike NG posted this link but it is in German:

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/aus...-aid-1.7479241




Here are link with photos and a video of the fi

http://www.vol.at/vorarlberg-waldbra...rsberg/5722558

http://vorarlberg.orf.at/news/stories/2903197/

Long story short it says that a Swiss MTB rider parked his MTB in
grass after a downhill ride. Then ... phut ... smoke and flames. He
and two other guys were unable to put out the fast-spreading fire.
Two
helicopters over 100 fire fighters were required to get this under
control.

Grant Petersen was right.
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes


Quote "But the idea that hub-disc brakes are an advancement or even
desirable for general purpose riding ... is nonsense"

If that's really his reasoning then he hasn't got a clue. Yesterday I
coasted back down a hill with a friend and a nasty hail storm set in.
He had disc brakes and could always stop on a dime. I was on my road
bike with rim brakes and they started to fail miserably. I had to keep
them partially engaged almost the whole time to make sure I had enough
brake actions when needed.

You had to squeeze your levers almost the whole time?

Oh, the humanity!


It's not the squeezing, it's the constant grinding noise. Grinding
noise + several miles = rim abrasion.

Disc brakes are simply superior in that and many other domains.

I still have a Arai drum brake wheel for my Trek tandem. For long steep
descents on a tandem, you really have to watch out for rims heating to
the point where you can get a blowout.


IIRC it's a long volcano descent in Hawaii where they only rent out drum
brake bicycles to avoid problems with overheated brakes.


I suspect that not many non-disc brake tandems, other than the el-cheapo
BSO tandems, are being sold anymore.


They shouldn't be. I remember an executive retreat where one of the
team-building exercises was tandem riding with someone you do not often
interact with at the company. So here we were, both proud members of the
0.1-ton class, lumbering down a long hill. We were the bicycle
equivalent of a full propane truck. At some point a stench came from the
front rim brake rubbers.

You should have seen some of the teams where neither rider was a
cyclist. Priceless. However, laughing at other teams was not allowed.


... Santana does have one entry-level
model where the disc brake is optional.


One guy on the German NG has disc brakes plus a rim brake on the rear
for extra braking power. That makes a lot of sense on a vacation trip
with extra cargo.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/27/2018 12:54 PM, sms wrote:


I still have a Arai drum brake wheel for my Trek tandem. For long steep
descents on a tandem, you really have to watch out for rims heating to
the point where you can get a blowout.

I suspect that not many non-disc brake tandems, other than the el-cheapo
BSO tandems, are being sold anymore. Santana does have one entry-level
model where the disc brake is optional.

Popularity isn't usually driven by practicality. It's usually driven
more by fashion. Tattoos, ripped jeans, aero sunglasses, carbon fiber
everything, minipumps and disc brakes are nearly always fashion choices.
They're hardly different than new hairstyles.

Jay mentions riding in Oregon rain for decades using rim brakes. We've
ridden our tandem with only rim brakes for decades. We've had no
problems at all.

Full disclosu The tandem was a custom build, with the builder (Jim
Bradford) also supplying and installing all the components. I asked for
a double-threaded Phil rear hub so I could install a hub brake if I
decided I needed it.

Bradford said it wasn't necessary, that he and his fiance had toured the
Alps on one of his tandems with only cantilever rim brakes.

I've never toured the Alps, but our tandem has never needed more brakes.
Which is good, because one of his many mistakes on this bike was
supplying a rear hub without the brake threading.

--
- Frank Krygowski

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.

--
JS

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-29 09:24, sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.


They are not powerful enough for MTB with large riders and some cargo.
Also, many mechanical systems only have a piston on one side which over
time results in the rotor being bent sideways when braking.

After having ridden offroad with rim brakes, mechanical discs and
hydraulic disks I found hydraulic discs to be far superior and never
looked back.

For road bikes machanical discs should suffice. IF I ever need a new one
I will make 100% sure it does not have rim brakes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 6:24:34 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.

Well argued! I assume it is based on own experience.

Lou

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Once a year? Why?

Lou

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling
soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like
that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on
a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling
soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like
that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on
a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right.

Lou

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling
soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like
that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on
a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no
mountain lions. Of course they work for you.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.

Roger Merriman

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for
your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with
the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs
to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling
soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like
that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on
a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel
like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no mountain lions. Of
course they work for you.


There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having to ride through
rivers. My MTB brake calipers regularly reach a state where you can't
even seem them anymore.

The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as well, except they
can't use the DOT4 fluid from the garage cabinet.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.


I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game
changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response
is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail
with some cargo in the back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/29/2018 5:32 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for
your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with
the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs
to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling
soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like
that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on
a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel
like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no mountain lions. Of
course they work for you.

Keep in mind, nothing works for Joerg.

--
- Frank Krygowski

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/29/2018 5:34 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.

"Embarrassingly weak" sounds strange to me. Aren't you really talking
about overall mechanical advantage - that is, lever force vs. braking force?

Practical braking force, especially off-road, is limited by traction
and/or by risk of pitchover. I fail to see why getting that amount of
force from a one pound lever force is better than getting it from a two
pound lever force. I can squeeze a two pound force all day.

--
- Frank Krygowski

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:25:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/29/2018 5:34 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.

"Embarrassingly weak" sounds strange to me. Aren't you really talking
about overall mechanical advantage - that is, lever force vs. braking force?

Practical braking force, especially off-road, is limited by traction
and/or by risk of pitchover. I fail to see why getting that amount of
force from a one pound lever force is better than getting it from a two
pound lever force. I can squeeze a two pound force all day.

Gads, I'm afraid to ride home on my cable discs, and I might even ride home on this odd-ball trail: https://swtrails.files.wordpress.com...er-freeway.jpg Right under I-5. And adding to the danger, I'll be on rim brakes this weekend. Eeeeeek!

MTBs are a different deal, and I can see being wedded to hydraulic discs. And I really do like the hydraulic discs on my road bikes. Nothing like the smell of mineral oil in the morning. Do I need hydraulic discs? No. I've ridden all the passes in Joergville, loaded and unloaded with caliper brakes and cantis -- Monitor, Ebbetts, Pacific Grade, Luther, Carson, Sonora, Tioga -- almost all of HWY 49. The Rockies, Cascades -- all them moun-tains across the US. No runaway train stories. I guess I just lack gnarliness.

-- Jay Beattie.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:41:51 AM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for
your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with
the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs
to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling
soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like
that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on
a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel
like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no mountain lions. Of
course they work for you.


There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having to ride through
rivers. My MTB brake calipers regularly reach a state where you can't
even seem them anymore.

The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as well, except they
can't use the DOT4 fluid from the garage cabinet.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

As I said they are on my crossbike which see more mud and dirt you can image. And lots of steep short up and downhills. In total I spent 3 months in California during my trips. Never had a day of rain, some drizzle/fog in San Francisco...



Lou

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:32:54 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling
soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like
that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on
a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no
mountain lions. Of course they work for you.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

He, the wolf is back in The Netherland. Time to bleed my brakes...

Lou

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 22:23:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/27/2018 12:54 PM, sms wrote:


I still have a Arai drum brake wheel for my Trek tandem. For long steep
descents on a tandem, you really have to watch out for rims heating to
the point where you can get a blowout.

I suspect that not many non-disc brake tandems, other than the el-cheapo
BSO tandems, are being sold anymore. Santana does have one entry-level
model where the disc brake is optional.

Popularity isn't usually driven by practicality. It's usually driven
more by fashion. Tattoos, ripped jeans, aero sunglasses, carbon fiber
everything, minipumps and disc brakes are nearly always fashion choices.
They're hardly different than new hairstyles.

Jay mentions riding in Oregon rain for decades using rim brakes. We've
ridden our tandem with only rim brakes for decades. We've had no
problems at all.

Full disclosu The tandem was a custom build, with the builder (Jim
Bradford) also supplying and installing all the components. I asked for
a double-threaded Phil rear hub so I could install a hub brake if I
decided I needed it.

Bradford said it wasn't necessary, that he and his fiance had toured the
Alps on one of his tandems with only cantilever rim brakes.

I've never toured the Alps, but our tandem has never needed more brakes.
Which is good, because one of his many mistakes on this bike was
supplying a rear hub without the brake threading.

I have the feeling that the effectiveness of brakes is far more a
factor of the rider then any mechanical effect. Not that I have a
tandem but I do find that my conventional rim brakes provide adequate
service in either wet or dry conditions.

I note that some of those who have so many problems with rim brakes
seem to have so many problems with practically everything on the
bicycle and, I might add that those who don't seem to have a lot of
brake problems don't seem that have a lot of problems with the rest of
the bike either :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.


I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game
changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response
is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail
with some cargo in the back.

But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one
finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-)

And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either.
--
Cheers,

John B.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 11:04:26 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.


I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game
changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response
is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail
with some cargo in the back.

But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one
finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-)

And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either.
--
Cheers,

John B.

You keep saying that, but are you also denying that in case of a descent in really wet conditions your rim brakes (V or calipers) brake signifant less than in dry conditions?

Lou

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 02:29:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 11:04:26 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.


I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game
changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response
is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail
with some cargo in the back.

But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one
finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-)

And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either.
--
Cheers,

John B.

You keep saying that, but are you also denying that in case of a descent in really wet conditions your rim brakes (V or calipers) brake signifant less than in dry conditions?

Lou

I don't know, or more factually, I never noticed. And, yes, as I live
in a tropical country I do get caught in the rain from time to time.
To be frank, I never gave the brakes a thought - they just worked.

Then along came this thread and I discovered that the rim brakes that
I had always considered satisfactory turned out to be ****! Damn,
about 20 years of being satisfied with what I had and now I've got to
convert to disc brakes to be able to stop the bike.
--
Cheers,

John B.

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:16:42 PM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 02:29:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 11:04:26 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.


I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game
changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response
is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail
with some cargo in the back.

But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one
finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-)

And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either.
--
Cheers,

John B.

You keep saying that, but are you also denying that in case of a descent in really wet conditions your rim brakes (V or calipers) brake signifant less than in dry conditions?

Lou

I don't know, or more factually, I never noticed. And, yes, as I live
in a tropical country I do get caught in the rain from time to time.
To be frank, I never gave the brakes a thought - they just worked.

Then along came this thread and I discovered that the rim brakes that
I had always considered satisfactory turned out to be ****! Damn,
about 20 years of being satisfied with what I had and now I've got to
convert to disc brakes to be able to stop the bike.
--
Cheers,

John B.

No one but Joerg is saying that you die if you use rim brakes. We all use or used rim brakes and we survived. This doesn't mean that (hydraulic) disc brake are better in wet conditions.

Lou

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On 3/30/2018 3:56 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 22:23:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/27/2018 12:54 PM, sms wrote:


I still have a Arai drum brake wheel for my Trek tandem. For long steep
descents on a tandem, you really have to watch out for rims heating to
the point where you can get a blowout.

I suspect that not many non-disc brake tandems, other than the el-cheapo
BSO tandems, are being sold anymore. Santana does have one entry-level
model where the disc brake is optional.

Popularity isn't usually driven by practicality. It's usually driven
more by fashion. Tattoos, ripped jeans, aero sunglasses, carbon fiber
everything, minipumps and disc brakes are nearly always fashion choices.
They're hardly different than new hairstyles.

Jay mentions riding in Oregon rain for decades using rim brakes. We've
ridden our tandem with only rim brakes for decades. We've had no
problems at all.

Full disclosu The tandem was a custom build, with the builder (Jim
Bradford) also supplying and installing all the components. I asked for
a double-threaded Phil rear hub so I could install a hub brake if I
decided I needed it.

Bradford said it wasn't necessary, that he and his fiance had toured the
Alps on one of his tandems with only cantilever rim brakes.

I've never toured the Alps, but our tandem has never needed more brakes.
Which is good, because one of his many mistakes on this bike was
supplying a rear hub without the brake threading.

I have the feeling that the effectiveness of brakes is far more a
factor of the rider then any mechanical effect. Not that I have a
tandem but I do find that my conventional rim brakes provide adequate
service in either wet or dry conditions.

I note that some of those who have so many problems with rim brakes
seem to have so many problems with practically everything on the
bicycle and, I might add that those who don't seem to have a lot of
brake problems don't seem that have a lot of problems with the rest of
the bike either :-)


You merely have bright green vipers, not mountain lions.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

MTB disc brake caused wild fire
 

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:09:37 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:41:51 AM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then
they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for
them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for
heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool
steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for
your
MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with
the
brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs
to be
done about once a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling
soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like
that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on
a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel
like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no mountain lions. Of
course they work for you.


There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having to ride through
rivers. My MTB brake calipers regularly reach a state where you can't
even seem them anymore.

The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as well, except they
can't use the DOT4 fluid from the garage cabinet.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

As I said they are on my crossbike which see more mud and dirt you can image. And lots of steep short up and downhills. In total I spent 3 months in California during my trips. Never had a day of rain, some drizzle/fog in San Francisco...

Story time: I was born and raised in California and raced NorCal and used to ride a lot with a guy from Vancouver, Washington. He would step out from his apartment, look up and say "another nice day." I didn't know what he was taking about until I moved to Portland. He would go to Portland every year at Fourth of July for the races at Alpenrose. https://www.bicycleattorney..com/img...015-oregon.jpg He would come back and tell me that it rained. WTF? In July? We were cooking in July.

Anyway, even in the Central Valley you can get some epic rain storms, and in Joergville, maybe a dusting of snow now and then and some rain. It is, however, a dry climate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnBoGhNWXx4 Lots of oak, madrone, bay and brown grass during summer. I miss the smell, and up the road a ways, there is some great climbing . . . on the road. In fact, it is some of the best climbing and scenery in the US, although considerably east of Joerg's house.

-- Jay Beattie.