My second encounter with the AFP
Some weeks ago, I posted my experience with the Australian Federal
Police whilst riding along Qantas Drive at Kingsford_Smith Airport. To save everybody digging thru the archives, that time, the AFP guys indicated (from inside their vehicle) that I should be using the cycleway adjacent to the road instead of being in the middle of the road itself. As they did not appear to press the issue, I continued riding in the middle of the lane at that time. Today, at about 1615, I had my second encounter and this time, it may be a bit more serious as another lot of AFP pulled me over (lights and sirens), severely admonished me verbally (I was in the middle of the lane and holding up traffic), took my details and informed me that they will contact me if there was going to be further action taken. There was a lot more to this obviously but I am just giving the salient bits. During the admonishment from the AFP goon, sorry, I meant officer, I just stood my ground, quoted my usual spiel about "the RTA Handbook for Road Users", "laws in the state of NSW", my right to a whole lane, my roadworthy vehicle, my PPE, etc etc. The incident occurred at around the same spot as last time and I am beginning to feel paranoid about the fact that either someone here is connected to the AFP OR the AFP is monitoring this newsgroup :) As soon as I could, I wrote down everything that happened including the name of the AFP goon, eeeerrrr... officer, who attempted to bully me into riding on the left of the lane :) His mate seemed alright cos as they were leaving, his mate said words to the effect, "OK man". Perhaps the most puzzling aspect was their claim that they were also NSW Police! I could only see AFP badges on their uniforms. In an attempt to be conciliatory, I did tell them that I had no problems with them patrolling the perimeter of the airport and stopping me to ask me for my ID. That was when I mentioned their jurisdiction outside of Federal territory and their counter claim of being also NSW Police. I am guessing that is bull****. A coupla mins after I rode off in my usual manner, a NSW cop car went past me without a second glance :) |
My second encounter with the AFP
On 18/01/2011 3:18 AM, Geoff Lock wrote:
Some weeks ago, I posted my experience with the Australian Federal Police whilst riding along Qantas Drive at Kingsford_Smith Airport. To save everybody digging thru the archives, that time, the AFP guys indicated (from inside their vehicle) that I should be using the cycleway adjacent to the road instead of being in the middle of the road itself. As they did not appear to press the issue, I continued riding in the middle of the lane at that time. Today, at about 1615, I had my second encounter and this time, it may be a bit more serious as another lot of AFP pulled me over (lights and sirens), severely admonished me verbally (I was in the middle of the lane and holding up traffic), took my details and informed me that they will contact me if there was going to be further action taken. There was a lot more to this obviously but I am just giving the salient bits. During the admonishment from the AFP goon, sorry, I meant officer, I just stood my ground, quoted my usual spiel about "the RTA Handbook for Road Users", "laws in the state of NSW", my right to a whole lane, my roadworthy vehicle, my PPE, etc etc. The incident occurred at around the same spot as last time and I am beginning to feel paranoid about the fact that either someone here is connected to the AFP OR the AFP is monitoring this newsgroup :) As soon as I could, I wrote down everything that happened including the name of the AFP goon, eeeerrrr... officer, who attempted to bully me into riding on the left of the lane :) His mate seemed alright cos as they were leaving, his mate said words to the effect, "OK man". Perhaps the most puzzling aspect was their claim that they were also NSW Police! I could only see AFP badges on their uniforms. In an attempt to be conciliatory, I did tell them that I had no problems with them patrolling the perimeter of the airport and stopping me to ask me for my ID. That was when I mentioned their jurisdiction outside of Federal territory and their counter claim of being also NSW Police. I am guessing that is bull****. A coupla mins after I rode off in my usual manner, a NSW cop car went past me without a second glance :) They have dual policemanship where as they can follow over their boundary onto NSW property. But their primary role is Commonwealth property. Did you ask if they will take personal responsibility if you are struck by another motorist whilst following their directive. |
My second encounter with the AFP
On 18/01/2011 8:59 AM, Rob wrote:
On 18/01/2011 3:18 AM, Geoff Lock wrote: Some weeks ago, I posted my experience with the Australian Federal Police whilst riding along Qantas Drive at Kingsford_Smith Airport. Perhaps the most puzzling aspect was their claim that they were also NSW Police! I could only see AFP badges on their uniforms. They have dual policemanship where as they can follow over their boundary onto NSW property. But their primary role is Commonwealth property. Oh, I didn't know that. OK, so they were not telling porkies. Used to be that the AFP were only limited to Commonwealth grounds and NSW Police to State boundaries - at least that was what I was told cos years ago as a rabble rousing student at UNSW, we'd conduct noisy protests at Sydney Airport, do the runner in our cars to the Uni grounds and basically laughrd and poked our tongues out at the NSW coppers who followed us there from the safety of Commonwealth property. Obviously, in our naiveness, we never thought that the NSW coppers had no real interest in apprehending us cos if they had wanted to do so, we would have had been toast in the 20 minutes or so it took to get to the Uni from the Airport along NSW roads :) Ah, the innocence of callow youth :) {to paraphrase Mentor from the Lensmen series by EE Doc Smith} Did you ask if they will take personal responsibility if you are struck by another motorist whilst following their directive. Actually, I told him pointblank I was NOT going to follow his directive :) I just looked him in the eye and repeated my "RTA Handbook" and the "laws in the state of NSW" mantras. :) On an aside, I think it is now 6 to me and nil to coppers. It would have been 7-0 if I counted that 1st encounter with the AFP but as I did not actually stop the bike I did not count that :) I have been wondering what would happen if I did get a fine. I would obviously contest that fine and there is a good chance the fine will get thrown out of court BUT can I get compensation for wrongful "whatever" and trauma and hurt and stuff like that?? :) Cos if I can sue for damages, next time, I'll seriously think about goading them into giving me a fine :) I could do with a new carbon fibre bike or three, you know :) |
My second encounter with the AFP
Yes Geoff, it is legal to ride in the middle of the lane, but is what you
are doing safe for both you and the people around you? What about people in the cars as a result of people having to change lanes etc to get around you. Your not talking about a back street here, your talking about a major road. It's not that wideand has heavy vehicles. Combine that with people running late for their flight. It is also legal for me to walk past a bunch of bikies with my friends and tell the bikies they are as thick as two short planks, get a haircut and get a job, but to do this would be foolish. What would be result of my actions? Ken "Geoff Lock" glock@home wrote in message ... On 18/01/2011 8:59 AM, Rob wrote: On 18/01/2011 3:18 AM, Geoff Lock wrote: Some weeks ago, I posted my experience with the Australian Federal Police whilst riding along Qantas Drive at Kingsford_Smith Airport. Perhaps the most puzzling aspect was their claim that they were also NSW Police! I could only see AFP badges on their uniforms. They have dual policemanship where as they can follow over their boundary onto NSW property. But their primary role is Commonwealth property. Oh, I didn't know that. OK, so they were not telling porkies. Used to be that the AFP were only limited to Commonwealth grounds and NSW Police to State boundaries - at least that was what I was told cos years ago as a rabble rousing student at UNSW, we'd conduct noisy protests at Sydney Airport, do the runner in our cars to the Uni grounds and basically laughrd and poked our tongues out at the NSW coppers who followed us there from the safety of Commonwealth property. Obviously, in our naiveness, we never thought that the NSW coppers had no real interest in apprehending us cos if they had wanted to do so, we would have had been toast in the 20 minutes or so it took to get to the Uni from the Airport along NSW roads :) Ah, the innocence of callow youth :) {to paraphrase Mentor from the Lensmen series by EE Doc Smith} Did you ask if they will take personal responsibility if you are struck by another motorist whilst following their directive. Actually, I told him pointblank I was NOT going to follow his directive :) I just looked him in the eye and repeated my "RTA Handbook" and the "laws in the state of NSW" mantras. :) On an aside, I think it is now 6 to me and nil to coppers. It would have been 7-0 if I counted that 1st encounter with the AFP but as I did not actually stop the bike I did not count that :) I have been wondering what would happen if I did get a fine. I would obviously contest that fine and there is a good chance the fine will get thrown out of court BUT can I get compensation for wrongful "whatever" and trauma and hurt and stuff like that?? :) Cos if I can sue for damages, next time, I'll seriously think about goading them into giving me a fine :) I could do with a new carbon fibre bike or three, you know :) |
My second encounter with the AFP
In aus.bicycle on Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:12:46 +1100
Ken & Stace wrote: Yes Geoff, it is legal to ride in the middle of the lane, but is what you are doing safe for both you and the people around you? What about people in the cars as a result of people having to change lanes etc to get around you. Your not talking about a back street here, your talking about a major road. It's not that wideand has heavy vehicles. Combine that with people running late for their flight. If they can't pass, they shouldn't. If they can, they should. If Geoff was a truck would you also complain? If peopel manage to sit behind trucks till safe to pass, are you saying they can't do it behind a bike, even though the vision is better? If not, what *are* you saying about "people in their cars"? are you saying that drivers on airport drive are not capable of changing lanes? I can't work out what the problem is. People who are late for flights are risking trouble anyway. Breakdowns, slow trucks, crashes. THe problem is not a slow vehicle, is it being late for the flight, If someone is late for a flight, are they jsutified in doing 110kmh in a 70 zone? If they are not, where is the difference between that, and the similar time difference in waiting to change lanes on a multi lane road? 110 will get them to the flight on time, obeying the law means they miss. Whose fault is the miss? It is also legal for me to walk past a bunch of bikies with my friends and tell the bikies they are as thick as two short planks, get a haircut and get a job, but to do this would be foolish. What would be result of my actions? In my experience, you will be laughed at. They won't bother beating you up, because your disrespect isn't important to them. You are a "citizen", and therefore irrelevant. Try another analogy eh? Howabout this one. "If I cross at a crosswalk on a road someone might be late for work, and I get hit, well whose fault is that? Has to be mine because asseting the road rules in front of impatient people is too dangerous and their impatience must override all else. Because that's how they view the world and I must not query that because I might get hurt doing so." Zebee |
My second encounter with the AFP
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message ... In aus.bicycle on Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:12:46 +1100 Ken & Stace wrote: Yes Geoff, it is legal to ride in the middle of the lane, but is what you are doing safe for both you and the people around you? What about people in the cars as a result of people having to change lanes etc to get around you. Your not talking about a back street here, your talking about a major road. It's not that wideand has heavy vehicles. Combine that with people running late for their flight. If they can't pass, they shouldn't. If they can, they should. If Geoff was a truck would you also complain? If peopel manage to sit behind trucks till safe to pass, are you saying they can't do it behind a bike, even though the vision is better? I would complain if the speed limit was 80KMH and the truck is sitting on 30 and there was room for me to get past if the truck just moved over a bit. If not, what *are* you saying about "people in their cars"? are you saying that drivers on airport drive are not capable of changing lanes? No I'm saying it's a heavy traffic area and if a driver gets caught behind a slower vehicle they may take risks to get around said slow vehicle, especially if the slow vehicle is taking up a full lane when, just by moving over to the left a bit, the driver could get past. I say people in their cars the same as I would say "a person on a bike" . I can't work out what the problem is. I don't see the point of "It's legal for me to do something therefore I'm gonna do it and stuff the rest of you" The federal police wouldn't have got involved if all was rosy. What was the traffic situation? Geoff has not enlightened us on that. A bit of consideration for others doesn't hurt. I'm sorry if I have misread Geoff's attitude, but going by the "mantra" I think not. It may be legal, but it is not safe for either Geoff or the people in the cars around him. People who are late for flights are risking trouble anyway. Breakdowns, slow trucks, crashes. THe problem is not a slow vehicle, is it being late for the flight, If someone is late for a flight, are they jsutified in doing 110kmh in a 70 zone? No you can never justify 110 in a 70 zone, You put the speed the driver was doing at 110KMH. Not me. But a driver who is running late will get frustrated and take risks they wouldn't normally take. If they are not, where is the difference between that, and the similar time difference in waiting to change lanes on a multi lane road? 110 will get them to the flight on time, obeying the law means they miss. Whose fault is the miss? The person who was late for their flight , however If they hit Geoff, it's Geoff who will come off second best. But as you said, ther are breakdowns slow traffic and crashes that make a person late when they may have left home on time. It is also legal for me to walk past a bunch of bikies with my friends and tell the bikies they are as thick as two short planks, get a haircut and get a job, but to do this would be foolish. What would be result of my actions? In my experience, you will be laughed at. They won't bother beating you up, because your disrespect isn't important to them. You are a "citizen", and therefore irrelevant. You know some nice bikies. Try another analogy eh? Howabout this one. "If I cross at a crosswalk on a road someone might be late for work, and I get hit, well whose fault is that? Has to be mine because asseting the road rules in front of impatient people is too dangerous and their impatience must override all else. Because that's how they view the world and I must not query that because I might get hurt doing so." If I stand 4 metres back from the crossing and talk to friend and at the end of the conversation suddenly run across the crossing without looking and get hit legally the driver is at fault, but if it goes to court it may be decided I didn't take due care. How about this one: At Glenbrook just past the M4 the speed limit is 80KMH. I can legally go through there at that speed anytime I want. However from 5.00pm onward, there are a large number of cars, bikes and buses turning in and out of Ross Street and the petrol station, therefore it is prudent to slow down to 60 at that time of the day. Zebee Ken |
My second encounter with the AFP
On 18/01/2011 2:43 PM, Geoff Lock wrote:
On 18/01/2011 8:59 AM, Rob wrote: by another motorist whilst following their directive. Actually, I told him pointblank I was NOT going to follow his directive :) I just looked him in the eye and repeated my "RTA Handbook" and the "laws in the state of NSW" mantras. :) In that little book there is something that tells you how far from the curve you should be at what speed. like 80 and over should keep to the left lane unless overtaking. under a certain speed within so much of the curve. |
My second encounter with the AFP
Ken & Stace wrote:
I would complain if the speed limit was 80KMH and the truck is sitting on 30 and there was room for me to get past if the truck just moved over a bit. So would I. And what the truck is doing is ENTIRELY legal. Don't like the law? Stop whining and do something about it. If not, what *are* you saying about "people in their cars"? are you saying that drivers on airport drive are not capable of changing lanes? No I'm saying it's a heavy traffic area and if a driver gets caught behind a slower vehicle they may take risks to get around said slow vehicle, especially if the slow vehicle is taking up a full lane when, just by moving over to the left a bit, the driver could get past. I say people in their cars the same as I would say "a person on a bike" . Just like a slow bicycle is NOT the same as a slow truck? Your contradicting yourself there... I can't work out what the problem is. I don't see the point of "It's legal for me to do something therefore I'm gonna do it and stuff the rest of you" The federal police wouldn't have got involved if all was rosy. What was the traffic situation? Geoff has not enlightened us on that. I'm sorry, were you expecting one cyclist to cause a holdup that was worthy of something here? Nope. Only cars and trucks do that. A bit of consideration for others doesn't hurt. I'm sorry if I have misread Geoff's attitude, but going by the "mantra" I think not. It may be legal, but it is not safe for either Geoff or the people in the cars around him. Ah, so you've never spent any time on a bicycle then? We often said as a requirement of obtaining a driver's licence, one should also spent a bit of time on a bike first. That'll put the fear of [insert favourite deity here] into you. People who are late for flights are risking trouble anyway. Breakdowns, slow trucks, crashes. THe problem is not a slow vehicle, is it being late for the flight, If someone is late for a flight, are they jsutified in doing 110kmh in a 70 zone? No you can never justify 110 in a 70 zone, You put the speed the driver was doing at 110KMH. Not me. But a driver who is running late will get frustrated and take risks they wouldn't normally take. So you're saying it's mere "frustration" that makes people speed or do otherwise stupid things? The person who was late for their flight , however If they hit Geoff, it's Geoff who will come off second best. But as you said, ther are breakdowns slow traffic and crashes that make a person late when they may have left home on time. Boo Hoo don't cry for me Argentina. I was in the thick of it EVERY FRIGGIN MORNING in peak hour. And it happens again at figgin night. And if one of those morons in the traffic has an accident (the inconsiderate prick) - they create one mother of a jam where no-one gets home before midnight. No really, if you don't like being held up that much, take the friggin train. Then be sure to let me know how much fun THAT was... In my experience, you will be laughed at. They won't bother beating you up, because your disrespect isn't important to them. You are a "citizen", and therefore irrelevant. You know some nice bikies. And you know NO bikies. If I stand 4 metres back from the crossing and talk to friend and at the end of the conversation suddenly run across the crossing without looking and get hit legally the driver is at fault, but if it goes to court it may be decided I didn't take due care. Nope, that's lack of due care straight off the bat. Not that it'll matter much to you, because you'll be lying in hospital. Or the morgue. How about this one: At Glenbrook just past the M4 the speed limit is 80KMH. I can legally go through there at that speed anytime I want. However from 5.00pm onward, there are a large number of cars, bikes and buses turning in and out of Ross Street and the petrol station, therefore it is prudent to slow down to 60 at that time of the day. You really are clueless aren't you? A speed limit sign is NOT a recommendation that you can actually drive at that speed whenever you like. It's a *limit*. You should drive to the conditions, while not exceeding the specified limit. Learn to read, use the internet, download the Australian Road Rules, and READ them sometime. You might actually learn something. -- I'm a pessimistic cynic. I'm never surprised and never disappointed. |
My second encounter with the AFP
"Ken & Stace" wrote "Zebee Johnstone" wrote If they can't pass, they shouldn't. If they can, they should. If Geoff was a truck would you also complain? If peopel manage to sit behind trucks till safe to pass, are you saying they can't do it behind a bike, even though the vision is better? I would complain if the speed limit was 80KMH and the truck is sitting on 30 and there was room for me to get past if the truck just moved over a bit. If the speed limit was 80km/h? You think this is a minimum speed limit? If not, what *are* you saying about "people in their cars"? are you saying that drivers on airport drive are not capable of changing lanes? No I'm saying it's a heavy traffic area and if a driver gets caught behind a slower vehicle they may take risks to get around said slow vehicle, especially if the slow vehicle is taking up a full lane when, just by moving over to the left a bit, the driver could get past. I say people in their cars the same as I would say "a person on a bike" . I believe it is actually illegal to pass someone without fully getting out of their lane, unless, of course, you, the passer, is also on a bicycle. I can't work out what the problem is. I don't see the point of "It's legal for me to do something therefore I'm gonna do it and stuff the rest of you" The federal police wouldn't have got involved if all was rosy. What was the traffic situation? Geoff has not enlightened us on that. Some people just like to exercise power they think they have. Particularly people wearing uniforms. They generally back down very quickly if you are aware of the laws and say so. If someone is late for a flight, are they jsutified in doing 110kmh in a 70 zone? No you can never justify 110 in a 70 zone, You put the speed the driver was doing at 110KMH. Not me. But a driver who is running late will get frustrated and take risks they wouldn't normally take. And somehow that is the cyclists/truck drivers problem? Howabout this one. "If I cross at a crosswalk on a road someone might be late for work, and I get hit, well whose fault is that? Has to be mine because asseting the road rules in front of impatient people is too dangerous and their impatience must override all else. Because that's how they view the world and I must not query that because I might get hurt doing so." If I stand 4 metres back from the crossing and talk to friend and at the end of the conversation suddenly run across the crossing without looking and get hit legally the driver is at fault, but if it goes to court it may be decided I didn't take due care. How about this one: At Glenbrook just past the M4 the speed limit is 80KMH. I can legally go through there at that speed anytime I want. No you can't, regardless of the posted speed limit you still have the onus of due care. Theo |
My second encounter with the AFP
Rob wrote:
In that little book there is something that tells you how far from the curve you should be at what speed. like 80 and over should keep to the left lane unless overtaking. under a certain speed within so much of the curve. Since you're quoting, could you also quote your source? Not trying to be a smart arse, (ahem) no really, I want to know. Would be nice if you if you could also quote the document, revision and section number. I've looked at the Australian Road Rules, the South Australian Road Rules (only slightly modified from the ARR), and the amendments for each. I don't have others on hand right now, but I'm not too worried. -- My kingdom for a beer; half my beer for a woman. |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:34 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CycleBanter.com