Badger_South wrote:
:: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:01:37 GMT, "Peter Cole"
:: wrote:
::
::: "Badger_South" wrote
:::
:::: I'm only focussing on this stuff as part of a phase I'm going
:::: through, though. I keep seeking out and testing myself on harder
:::: and harder sections, which are not hard to find where I ride (lots
:::: of 100-200 yd steeps). So far I'm doing pretty well for a my
:::: condition with the hip injury and everything, I believe.
:::
::: We all go through phases, one of mine was beginning fixed gear
::: riding where I learned that cadence didn't have as much of an
::: effect as I had presumed it would.
::
:: Yet ime, cadence, at least right now, is the focal point of my
:: riding. (can you tell I just installed a cadence computer? ;-) But
:: in actuality I rarely look at it. I just know that when I can 'spin
:: up' I go faster with seeming less effort. YMMV.
::
:::: If you don't mind my asking, what is the best way to learn the
:::: 'blowing up' part?
::
::: The classic "blowing up" is more of a short-term phenomenon, where
::: you briefly exceed your cardio-vascular capacity and go into debt.
::: We all have a steady-state pace that we can sustain for several
::: minutes, when you push beyond that, your output drops precipitously
::: until you recover. This is more of an aerobic/anaerobic thing than
::: a fatigue thing. If you're climbing hills, or doing fast,
::: relatively short rides (like time trials), it's important to go to
::: your limit, without exceeding it, for your best time. Learning
::: exactly where that is takes time and knowledge of your body. Heart
::: rate monitors can help learning to pace, but given day-to-day
::: variations, I find listening to your body works better.
::
:: OK, makes sense. Watching the TdF 2003, Millar talks about blowing
:: up, so I've been looking at that pheonm.
::
::: The long-term fatigue limit is different. Fatigue accumulates in
::: your muscles, and eventually you get to the point where your output
::: drops off severely. Unlike blowing up, which is recoverable after a
::: few minutes, muscle fatigue doesn't go away with brief rest. If you
::: keep pushing, the muscles often go into spasms (cramping). Muscle
::: fatigue can be accelerated by periods of high level exertion, so if
::: you want to go long, you have to watch the pace, too.
::
:: OK, all common sense stuff, but it helped to hear it. Very much
:: thanks for taking the time to type all this out! ;-)
::
:: I'm off to scout that 2 mile hill and ride.

Good luck! :)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:29:15 -0400, "Roger Zoul" wrote:

Tom Keats wrote:
:: In article ,
:: "Roger Zoul" writes:
::
::: So basically, you either have it or you don't. All those magical
::: training techniques are just fine tuning.
::
:: Not necessarily.
::
:: Robert Johnson stunk as a guitar player until
:: he sold his soul to the devil ;-)

:)

I wonder if I sold my soul to the devil if I could win the TdF 7 times?
Hmm....

That contract's already been signed and is currently in "fulfillment" status.
I'm told there are other openings.

Ron

On 21 Oct 2004 03:55:10 GMT, (Hunrobe) wrote:

"Roger Zoul"

wrote in part:

Well, I've blow up twice by my counting. Once when I was doing a metric
century and was foolish enough to try to race some little guy up a longish
hill.

Always a mistake. The best choice for most of you big dudes is concede the
climbs to us normal sized guys and hope to catch us on the flats. ;-)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Normal-sized? Dude one of my jerseys would look like a nightshirt on you,
lol.

Best plan for you little itty bitty guys is to tuck in behind Roger-sized
guys and pray for no gust of wind to blow you away. eg

-B

Hunrobe wrote:

The best choice for most of you big dudes is concede the
climbs to us normal sized guys and hope to catch us on the flats.

And the proper protocol after big dude catches one of us normal
sized guys is to happily pull us across the flats until the next
climb, where the process starts again.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Terry Morse wrote:

Hunrobe wrote:

The best choice for most of you big dudes is concede the
climbs to us normal sized guys and hope to catch us on the flats.

And the proper protocol after big dude catches one of us normal
sized guys is to happily pull us across the flats until the next
climb, where the process starts again.

or not so happily -- it depends on how good of a conversationalist and/or
charismatic you are. i may like climbing but i know my place: i weigh in
at 178lbs. hint: i'm more likely to happily pull ya across the plains if
you at least pretend to be in pain when you drop me. and take a little while
to do so. a few hundred feet at least.
--
david reuteler

Hunrobe wrote:
||| "Roger Zoul"
||
|| wrote in part:
||
||| Well, I've blow up twice by my counting. Once when I was doing a
||| metric century and was foolish enough to try to race some little
||| guy up a longish hill.
||
|| Always a mistake. The best choice for most of you big dudes is
|| concede the climbs to us normal sized guys and hope to catch us on
|| the flats. ;-)

Well.....I bet that little dude up that hill.....after that, he flew away
and I never say him again :)

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 04:52:11 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Hunrobe wrote:
||| "Roger Zoul"
||
|| wrote in part:
||
||| Well, I've blow up twice by my counting. Once when I was doing a
||| metric century and was foolish enough to try to race some little
||| guy up a longish hill.
||
|| Always a mistake. The best choice for most of you big dudes is
|| concede the climbs to us normal sized guys and hope to catch us on
|| the flats. ;-)

Well.....I bet that little dude up that hill.....after that, he flew away
and I never say him again :)

....and after next spring, that will be you, 35lbs lighter!

I'm teasing, but think of it...even though some loss of muscle might make
you a bit weaker, the little guys have done about all they can to get that
5% advantage over you (making up numbers here for sake of argument), and
you (and I) have the advantage of knowing if we can intelligently and
protein-sparingly lose that adipose, we get a hyoouge boost.

Imagine putting three bags of flour on your body and -just- before you get
to that hard part, cutting those loose like a hot air balloon dumping
ballast.

With this in mind, my theory is that if you can drop the weight quickly,
while not going -too- much beyond that 2lb per week after the first 14
days, the effect will be most strongly noticed. This is the reason that,
imo, I got out off the flats so dramatically, going from no hill days per
week to a week of 2 a week, and then right on to 7 days a week and looking
for more challenges already.

Sure the lighter guys are still gonna ride away from you, but they won't
fly! ;-D

-B
(Next week I start the next phase, riding the hill route with a full
camelback two days a week, and making those 'hard' days. Mine is 8lbs full,
with some gear stowed in the bottom. Dumb idea? Good idea? don't know yet,
but as a weight lifter, this is the kind of thing that seems logical. I
might play with it and take off the weight on the last pass near my house
where I have 2 miles of flats and try some speed work on the last part.).

Badger_South wrote:

Next week I start the next phase, riding the hill route with a full
camelback two days a week, and making those 'hard' days. Mine is 8lbs full,
with some gear stowed in the bottom. Dumb idea? Good idea? don't know yet,
but as a weight lifter, this is the kind of thing that seems logical.

Dump the extra weight, just go faster instead.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

In article ,
"Roger Zoul" writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
:: In article ,
:: "Roger Zoul" writes:
::
::: So basically, you either have it or you don't. All those magical
::: training techniques are just fine tuning.
::
:: Not necessarily.
::
:: Robert Johnson stunk as a guitar player until
:: he sold his soul to the devil ;-)

:)

I wonder if I sold my soul to the devil if I could win the TdF 7 times?
Hmm....

Good news: we don't have to resort to such drastic measures.

This article at the Cycling Performance Tips site:
'Training vs Genetics'
http://www.cptips.com/trnvgen.htm
might be of interest to both you and Badger.


cheers,
Tom


--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Badger_South wrote in message . ..
(Next week I start the next phase, riding the hill route with a
full
camelback two days a week, and making those 'hard' days. Mine is 8lbs full,
with some gear stowed in the bottom. Dumb idea? Good idea? don't know yet,
but as a weight lifter, this is the kind of thing that seems logical. I
might play with it and take off the weight on the last pass near my house
where I have 2 miles of flats and try some speed work on the last part.).

Sure! the extra weight will have a positive training effect during
your climbs. But it would be interesting to know if the marginal
benefit is better or worse than ditching the weight and trying to
increase your pace. Might be a differential for gaining stregth (with
the weight) vs. gaining speed (without the weight.
But I'd say no need to drop it for your finish on the flats. I think
that marginal effort on the flats is tiny.Most of the track, sprinters
and classics winners are a bit bigger than the pure climbers and GT
type winners. Muscle counts as a positive on the flats.