Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?
 

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:08:24 +0000, Cassandra wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:10 +0100, Nick
wrote:

On 10/08/2014 11:10, JNugent wrote:
On 10/08/2014 10:39, Nick wrote:

On 09/08/2014 11:12, Cassandra wrote:

With the hands above the brake levers one can still operate the
brake levers pretty well.

Nonsense You lose most of the mechanical advantage of the brake
lever and the power of your hand.
Its like claiming pliars work pretty well if you hold them at the
jaws

You are making an assumption that braking efficiency is dominated by
pressure applied to brake levers.

Surely it *is*?

On my bike the limiting factor is instead the tyre friction against
the road.

Very true, and there is also the mediating factor of the friction
between the braking mechanism and the wheel. But is there any serious
dispute of the proposition that the amount of that friction is related
-
directly - to the force with which the brake block is applied to the
relevant surface of the wheel (ie, proportional to the effort expended
by the rider)?

I can apply enough pressure to the levers to lock the front wheel
when riding on the hoods. If this were not the case I would agree
with your argument.

But can every rider do that? And wouldn't any rider be able to stop
even more quickly if they were in a position to apply (up to) maximum
effort to the mechanism, rather than only a proportion of it at best?

Yes you are right. Its similar to driving in the days prior to anti lock
braking. It wasn't enough to just lock the wheels, In order to stop
really quickly once you were in a skid you had to use all your strength
to push the brake pedal through the floor.

Thats not how you brake in a skid.

Exactly. One must periodically and rapidly let off the braking force so
the wheel can turn and one can steer.
This is how electronic braking systems work (not that you find many of
those on bicycles!)

Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?
 

"Peter Keller" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:08:24 +0000, Cassandra wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:10 +0100, Nick
wrote:

On 10/08/2014 11:10, JNugent wrote:
On 10/08/2014 10:39, Nick wrote:

On 09/08/2014 11:12, Cassandra wrote:

With the hands above the brake levers one can still operate the
brake levers pretty well.

Nonsense You lose most of the mechanical advantage of the brake
lever and the power of your hand.
Its like claiming pliars work pretty well if you hold them at the
jaws

You are making an assumption that braking efficiency is dominated by
pressure applied to brake levers.

Surely it *is*?

On my bike the limiting factor is instead the tyre friction against
the road.

Very true, and there is also the mediating factor of the friction
between the braking mechanism and the wheel. But is there any serious
dispute of the proposition that the amount of that friction is related
-
directly - to the force with which the brake block is applied to the
relevant surface of the wheel (ie, proportional to the effort expended
by the rider)?

I can apply enough pressure to the levers to lock the front wheel
when riding on the hoods. If this were not the case I would agree
with your argument.

But can every rider do that? And wouldn't any rider be able to stop
even more quickly if they were in a position to apply (up to) maximum
effort to the mechanism, rather than only a proportion of it at best?

Yes you are right. Its similar to driving in the days prior to anti lock
braking. It wasn't enough to just lock the wheels, In order to stop
really quickly once you were in a skid you had to use all your strength
to push the brake pedal through the floor.

Thats not how you brake in a skid.

Exactly. One must periodically and rapidly let off the braking force so
the wheel can turn and one can steer.
This is how electronic braking systems work

(not that you find many of those on bicycles!)

That's another reason why they are not a viable means of transport

Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?
 

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:46:29 +0100, Tarcap wrote:

"Peter Keller" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:08:24 +0000, Cassandra wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:10 +0100, Nick
wrote:

On 10/08/2014 11:10, JNugent wrote:
On 10/08/2014 10:39, Nick wrote:

On 09/08/2014 11:12, Cassandra wrote:

With the hands above the brake levers one can still operate the
brake levers pretty well.

Nonsense You lose most of the mechanical advantage of the brake
lever and the power of your hand.
Its like claiming pliars work pretty well if you hold them at the
jaws

You are making an assumption that braking efficiency is dominated by
pressure applied to brake levers.

Surely it *is*?

On my bike the limiting factor is instead the tyre friction against
the road.

Very true, and there is also the mediating factor of the friction
between the braking mechanism and the wheel. But is there any serious
dispute of the proposition that the amount of that friction is
related -
directly - to the force with which the brake block is applied to the
relevant surface of the wheel (ie, proportional to the effort
expended by the rider)?

I can apply enough pressure to the levers to lock the front wheel
when riding on the hoods. If this were not the case I would agree
with your argument.

But can every rider do that? And wouldn't any rider be able to stop
even more quickly if they were in a position to apply (up to) maximum
effort to the mechanism, rather than only a proportion of it at best?

Yes you are right. Its similar to driving in the days prior to anti
lock braking. It wasn't enough to just lock the wheels, In order to
stop really quickly once you were in a skid you had to use all your
strength to push the brake pedal through the floor.

Thats not how you brake in a skid.

Exactly. One must periodically and rapidly let off the braking force so
the wheel can turn and one can steer.
This is how electronic braking systems work

(not that you find many of those on bicycles!)

That's another reason why they are not a viable means of transport

I do not see the connection.

My bicycle is a very viable means of transport for many things. It has
very reliable easily modulated brakes.
You do not need EBS for that.

Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?
 

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 4:38:04 AM UTC-4, Peter Keller wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:46:29 +0100, Tarcap wrote:



"Peter Keller" wrote in message ...



On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:08:24 +0000, Cassandra wrote:



On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:10 +0100, Nick

wrote:



On 10/08/2014 11:10, JNugent wrote:

On 10/08/2014 10:39, Nick wrote:



On 09/08/2014 11:12, Cassandra wrote:



With the hands above the brake levers one can still operate the

brake levers pretty well.



Nonsense You lose most of the mechanical advantage of the brake

lever and the power of your hand.

Its like claiming pliars work pretty well if you hold them at the

jaws



You are making an assumption that braking efficiency is dominated by

pressure applied to brake levers.



Surely it *is*?



On my bike the limiting factor is instead the tyre friction against

the road.



Very true, and there is also the mediating factor of the friction

between the braking mechanism and the wheel. But is there any serious

dispute of the proposition that the amount of that friction is

related -

directly - to the force with which the brake block is applied to the

relevant surface of the wheel (ie, proportional to the effort

expended by the rider)?



I can apply enough pressure to the levers to lock the front wheel

when riding on the hoods. If this were not the case I would agree

with your argument.



But can every rider do that? And wouldn't any rider be able to stop

even more quickly if they were in a position to apply (up to) maximum

effort to the mechanism, rather than only a proportion of it at best?



Yes you are right. Its similar to driving in the days prior to anti

lock braking. It wasn't enough to just lock the wheels, In order to

stop really quickly once you were in a skid you had to use all your

strength to push the brake pedal through the floor.



Thats not how you brake in a skid.



Exactly. One must periodically and rapidly let off the braking force so

the wheel can turn and one can steer.

This is how electronic braking systems work



(not that you find many of those on bicycles!)



That's another reason why they are not a viable means of transport



I do not see the connection.



My bicycle is a very viable means of transport for many things. It has

very reliable easily modulated brakes.

You do not need EBS for that.

I have a number of bicycles with drop handle bars and mechanical caliper brakes either side pull or cantliever. None of these bicycles including my single speed one with Dura Ace AX calipers has any trouble stopping when braking from the hoods. Nor do I have any trouble s eeing the road ahead of me when riding on the drops even if my drop bars are well below saddle level. My neck is flexible enough that I can tilt my head and raise my eyes enough to see ahead. In addition it's not all that fatiguing for me to look ahead even on long rides.

Cheers

Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?
 

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