The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 19:27:10 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

More bad news from the trenches, something that blackblade, Phil W Lee and John B will not enjoy reading. It of course only confirms what I have been saying from day one, namely, that cycling on trails is a conflict with other trail users. Only the self-serving terminally stupid would claim otherwise.
“http://www.denverpost.com/lipsher/ci...#ixzz2sE2qwT62

Lipsher: Conflicts grow over biking in the mountains

By Steve Lipsher
Posted: 02/02/2014 05:00:00 PM MST

Land managers in Colorado have been unable to
keep up with the evolving uses and demands like
biking of mountain trails, writes Steve Lipsher.
(Hyoung Chang, The Denver Post)

Mountain bikers philosophically have been more
aligned with hikers, cross-country skiers and
other "quiet use" types than with snowmobilers, dirt bikers and ATV riders.

But increasingly, the two-wheeled folks are
becoming embroiled in conflicts with other trail
users, and bikers now are finding themselves on
the other side of the philosophical divide and
risking alienating traditional allies.

From a long, unflattering history of creating
illegal, unsustainable trails to a new trend *
winter "fat" bikes that compete with skiers and
snowshoers on snow-covered trails * biking now
represents an intrusive activity that affects others in the woods.

Go to any online outdoor forum these days, and
you'll see lots of chatter about the
compatibility of bikes and other activities,
ranging from allowing bikes on trails in national
parks to whether battery-assisted bikes belong,
well, anywhere. (In Boulder, two distinct camps
have formed over allowing the new breed of
electric moped to share the paved bike paths.)

And the fiercest debate today is over whether the
new breed of winter bikes * which rely on
bulbous, low-pressure tires to float over the
snow * belong on the trails. The fear is they
will gouge out ruts in soft snow, making the skiing treacherous.

On MTBR, a popular mountain-biking chat site,
writers discussed whether fat bikes should be
allowed on specifically groomed cross-country ski
trails, which already prohibit hikers for the sake of keeping the track smooth.

"I tried to ride on a groomed trail once in
Wyoming," wrote one biker. "It was on public open
space land, and the trail was probably 40 inches
wide. I actually thought I was going to be
lynched. I got on my bike in the parking lot and
was surrounded by a bunch of XC skiers. They were
actually shouting two inches from my face."

"Skiers are a testy, testy bunch. Avoid them at all costs," wrote another.

But even in sticking to multi-use trails on
public lands that officially are open to all
users, "fat bikers" are encountering hostility
from unsuspecting snowshoers and skiers, similar
to the complaints that hikers have expressed in
the summer when bikers swarm past on their favorite treks.

Communities, public-lands agencies and user
groups now are grappling with how to keep peace
among the different interests. In Aspen, fat
bikes for the first time this winter are being
allowed on Pitkin County open space groomed by
the Aspen Snowmass Nordic Council as a trial run.
Two years ago, Idaho started hosting a "fat bike
summit" that brings land managers and bikers
together to discuss ways of alleviating
conflicts. And the International Mountain Biking
Association is imploring its members to be sure
that fat bikes are permitted on the lands where they want to ride.

Because the number of fat bikes is doubling every
year, doing nothing is no longer an option, and
some regulation is needed. The problem is that
land managers have been unable to keep up with the evolving uses and demands.

The U.S. Forest Service was slow to recognize the
explosion of summertime mountain biking in the
1980s, and the ensuing user conflicts and braids
of illegal, poorly designed user-created trails
created a management nightmare. Similarly, ATVs
have intruded into untrammeled places, forever altering their character.

Many of those routes have grown so popular that
forest managers begrudgingly have been forced to
include them in their updated trail networks.

Another issue is that bikers, as well as many
other groups, always are looking to expand their
territory, threatening to change the nature of ... well, nature.

This time, it's fat bikes. Next, powered bikes.
Before that, mountain boards. Every new fad and
craze competes for more space, resources,
management on the trail, and each creates its own
bitter divisions on who belongs.”

Since it seems I am now the only one on this newsgroup posting any content, I will treat with appropriate scorn any responders who do not also post some content. Name calling does not work with me as I just love to name call myself. It is part of being a Great Saint.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

Good old Dobbin Dolan. He farts a bit as he wanders down the furrow.
Just turn your head and ignore it.

--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...

On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 19:27:10 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

More bad news from the trenches, something that blackblade, Phil W Lee and John B will not enjoy reading. It of course only confirms what I have been saying from day one, namely, that cycling on trails is a conflict with other trail users. Only the self-serving terminally stupid would claim otherwise.
[...]
Since it seems I am now the only one on this newsgroup posting any content, I will treat with appropriate scorn any responders who do not also post some content. Name calling does not work with me as I just love to name call myself. It is part of being a Great Saint.

Good old Dobbin Dolan. He farts a bit as he wanders down the furrow.
Just turn your head and ignore it.

You would normally earn scorn from the Great One for the above, but since you did post my entire message I am letting you off the hook. However, the only flatulent hippopotamus here is you. That has already been well established.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message ...

John B. considered Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:07:46
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Mon, 3 Feb 2014 23:20:19 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

Lest any of the remaining numbskulls and other assorted idiots still left on this desultory newsgroup (Blackblade and Phil W Lee) forget what the Great Michael Vandeman has taught us from our infancy, let us review what he has told us from the beginning:
“ http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/permit.html

Anyone who wants to dispute any of this needs to go to the links furnished and read for themselves what the facts are. Useless blather about how mountain biking does not conflict with other trail users and does no damage only marks you as the worthless liars and bums that you are.

I only bother reading articles written by those who have at least a
faint understanding of their subject, and certainly not those by
criminals seeking to desperately thrash around for something vaguely
resembling and excuse for their crimes.

The only criminal I know about here on this newsgroup is you. Just because you are not behind bars does not mean you are not a criminal. Criminal is as criminal does.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Wrong way round.
Roads are for wheels, but wheels are not restricted to roads, although
some vehicles do make the design choice to exclude off-road use.
Wheels were in widespread use for millennia before roads as we know
them existed at all (although it should be noted for completeness that
roads as we know them exist thanks to cyclists, despite any claims by
the motoring usurpers).

The Incas of South America before Columbus did not have the wheel, except on their toys. Their roads were not for wheels, and most likely would have been impossible to do on wheels. On the other hand Roman roads were for wheels as well as for other modes of travel. The riding of bikes off-road is a recent invention only made possible by mountain bikes. Wheels and roads go together like assholes and mountain bikers go together.
[...]

Maybe we should refer to him as Incitatus?
The parallels are not insignificant - a horse, appointed by a maniac,
to a role he was clearly (at least to the sane) completely unsuitable
for.
That would unfortunately make Vandal man Caligula though, and although
the insanity fits, at least Caligula's delusions were not entirely of
grandeur.

Your attempt to show some erudition is pathetic. Everyone knows that mountain bikers are devoid of culture, and indeed of all learning. It is why I do not waste any effort on them. When I call them assholes, thugs and hooligans everyone understands perfectly who and what I am talking about. You on the other hand are out in left field blathering only to yourself. But I guess we both know who and what you are.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 18:12:37 +0000, Phil W Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:07:46
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Mon, 3 Feb 2014 23:20:19 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

Lest any of the remaining numbskulls and other assorted idiots still left on this desultory newsgroup (Blackblade and Phil W Lee) forget what the Great Michael Vandeman has taught us from our infancy, let us review what he has told us from the beginning:
“ http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/permit.html

Anyone who wants to dispute any of this needs to go to the links furnished and read for themselves what the facts are. Useless blather about how mountain biking does not conflict with other trail users and does no damage only marks you as the worthless liars and bums that you are.

I only bother reading articles written by those who have at least a
faint understanding of their subject, and certainly not those by
criminals seeking to desperately thrash around for something vaguely
resembling and excuse for their crimes.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Wrong way round.
Roads are for wheels, but wheels are not restricted to roads, although
some vehicles do make the design choice to exclude off-road use.
Wheels were in widespread use for millennia before roads as we know
them existed at all (although it should be noted for completeness that
roads as we know them exist thanks to cyclists, despite any claims by
the motoring usurpers).

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

As I've told you before, no.

Ed Dolan the Great arsehole
aka
Stupid Edward the Grunt

IFTFY

Ah Yes. Mr. Blackblade and Mr. Phil W Lee are here posting their
logical, well thought out remarks and the Sainted Dolan has nothing to
say and so posts the remarks of a convicted criminal in response.

It really says something for Dolan's ability to debate the point in
question, or more bluntly, his inability to reply logically.

In short we have a situation where one side posts logical statements
while the other side simply repeats their bigoted comments and in
justification posts the remarks of a convicted criminal.

One might even say, using the vernacular, we got the rational chaps on
one side and a horse's ass on the other.

That is most unfair on horses asses.
They do at least perform a useful function.


Well, I did qualify that by saying "in the vernacular".
Sort of like "cool" doesn't necessarily indicate temperature :-)

You'll need to change your signature to Dobbin Dolan.

Maybe we should refer to him as Incitatus?
The parallels are not insignificant - a horse, appointed by a maniac,
to a role he was clearly (at least to the sane) completely unsuitable
for.
That would unfortunately make Vandal man Caligula though, and although
the insanity fits, at least Caligula's delusions were not entirely of
grandeur.
--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 18:12:37 +0000, Phil W Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:07:46
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Mon, 3 Feb 2014 23:20:19 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

Lest any of the remaining numbskulls and other assorted idiots still left on this desultory newsgroup (Blackblade and Phil W Lee) forget what the Great Michael Vandeman has taught us from our infancy, let us review what he has told us from the beginning:
“ http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/permit.html

Anyone who wants to dispute any of this needs to go to the links furnished and read for themselves what the facts are. Useless blather about how mountain biking does not conflict with other trail users and does no damage only marks you as the worthless liars and bums that you are.

I only bother reading articles written by those who have at least a
faint understanding of their subject, and certainly not those by
criminals seeking to desperately thrash around for something vaguely
resembling and excuse for their crimes.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Wrong way round.
Roads are for wheels, but wheels are not restricted to roads, although
some vehicles do make the design choice to exclude off-road use.
Wheels were in widespread use for millennia before roads as we know
them existed at all (although it should be noted for completeness that
roads as we know them exist thanks to cyclists, despite any claims by
the motoring usurpers).

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

As I've told you before, no.

Ed Dolan the Great arsehole
aka
Stupid Edward the Grunt

IFTFY

Ah Yes. Mr. Blackblade and Mr. Phil W Lee are here posting their
logical, well thought out remarks and the Sainted Dolan has nothing to
say and so posts the remarks of a convicted criminal in response.

It really says something for Dolan's ability to debate the point in
question, or more bluntly, his inability to reply logically.

In short we have a situation where one side posts logical statements
while the other side simply repeats their bigoted comments and in
justification posts the remarks of a convicted criminal.

One might even say, using the vernacular, we got the rational chaps on
one side and a horse's ass on the other.

That is most unfair on horses asses.
They do at least perform a useful function.

You'll need to change your signature to Dobbin Dolan.

Maybe we should refer to him as Incitatus?
The parallels are not insignificant - a horse, appointed by a maniac,
to a role he was clearly (at least to the sane) completely unsuitable
for.
That would unfortunately make Vandal man Caligula though, and although
the insanity fits, at least Caligula's delusions were not entirely of
grandeur.

It is more than likely that he is a pitiful little nonentity who is
using the, largely insignificant, matter of walking/bicycles as a
subject for him to wax loud and long about. Quite noticeably in a
bicycle group where he will be most likely to get a response, and of
course it is the response that massages his ego - "look Mama, they
noticed me!"

Obviously the most effective method of dealing with the twerp would be
to ignore him but he posts such infantile arguments that there is the
temptation post a response to his arguments simply to demonstrate the
poorly thought out logic of his ascertains. Unfortunately it appears
that he is so poorly educated that he cannot formulate a rebuttal and
simply repeats his previous statements or, in desperation, falls back
on the utterances of his mentor, the convict.

An insignificant twerp :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

By the way, if you were to suffer a really serious injury, one

that left you paralyzed for example, I doubt that you would think it
was worth

it. Price to be paid - indeed!

*

Well, clearly, you DON'T understand risk either or you would not
have written this.

It is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that such a fate will befall me ... but
not impossible.* If you live your life based on worrying about extremely
unlikely events then you will end up doing a Howard Hughes and never leaving
your house.

It is not as unlikely as you think it is. Helmets will not
protect you from a paralyzing injury. Bikers who ride their bikes on hiking
trails will hit something and go over the handlebars. It is not rare for this to
happen. How you land will determine how serious your injuries will be. Why risk
any of this?

Well, actually, I know precisely ... as a percentage per mile travelled ... how likely/unlikely it is. I have decided that this risk level is acceptable. I don't castigate anyone who takes a more cautious view but my choice is my choice and I, and any other adult who is mentally competent, am entitled to make up my own mind.

Of course, the reality is that the risk is variable and depends on many factors including the type of riding that one undertakes. Thus, taking one's children on the trail one would ensure that they were undertaking less risky activities whereas I would tend to gravitate towards the more extreme end of the spectrum with concomitantly greater risk.

However, since the odds of killing or disabling yourself whilst
walking down the stairs or taking a shower are also unlikely, but not zero, even
there you are not safe.

Hikers walking a trail are not in much danger of killing or
injuring themselves whereas bikers who do what they do on trails are. Very odd
that you would argue anything to the contrary.

I simply pointed out that the odds are not as extreme as you might expect. And, for this reason, a goodly number of hikers do succumb to fatal injuries as a result of hiking.

Mountain biking, measured against other risks, is not at the top
of the risk tree ... but it's not at the bottom either.* Pay your money and
take your choice.* As I also enjoy extreme skiing and motorcycle racing I
take it you can guess where I draw the line.

You are risking life and limb doing dangerous things. When the
inevitable happens you will have nothing but second thoughts about the risk
taking. It is entirely possible to enjoy what the outdoors has to offer without
doing anything foolish. I enjoy trekking, but I would never for a moment
consider any kind of climbing. Why? It is dangerous and doesn't add to my
enjoyment of trekking. Adrenalin rushes are strictly for idiots.

Risk is endemic to living. Pretty much everything that you do has an element of risk. You may eschew 'dangerous' sports but then expire from congestive heart failure or as a result of a motoring accident. I think you're missing the fundamental point ... I AM fully aware of the risks and I CHOOSE to accept them. I am not alone in that and, in fact, many major breakthroughs in a lot of fields have resulted from people prepared to take calculated risks. Given that nearly every risk is well below 100% no, nothing is 'inevitable' as you posit. In fact, most people will enjoy their activity with nothing worse than a few bruises ... that's the norm.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

Mountain biking ranked low on the list compared to hiking in
terms of popularity. That is all I was interested in.

But was more popular amongst first time participants and the young ... which means that, over time, it will grow relative to hiking. More people are taking up mountainbiking than hiking.

You remind me of a bulldog that gets hold of some little
thing, however irrelevant, and then wants to hang onto it forever. Notice how I
move on, never stumbling over stuff that doesn't matter.

How does the aforementioned statement not matter Ed ... it directly contravenes your point about mountainbiking going away ... it's growing relative to hiking. The report confirms that there will be more new bikers and less new hikers so, over time, mountainbiking will overtake hiking if that trend continues.

Where are we right now on this thread? I am proving that
mountain biking is not as popular as you think it is and it is also far more
dangerous then you think it is. That is the subject of this thread - the
so-called "joys & pleasures", or is satire wasted on you?

No Ed, you're not proving that. Firstly, I never stated how popular or otherwise it was ... and, frankly, I don't particularly care. You just grabbed a statistic that you thought backed you up but, because you couldn't be bothered to read the rest, failed to notice what I've just pointed out.

Secondly, I already know what the risk is; 0.00123 killed per million miles travelled ... using data from your dear pal Vandeman who has a strong bias against mountainbiking so the real figure is likely significantly lower.

Lastly, for satire to work it needs a common understanding. As I, and many others, genuinely do enjoy the Joys and Pleasures of cycling on trails the irony is lost on us ...

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

Edward Dolan wrote:

When are you ever going to learn how to edit a post?

It is more than likely that he is a pitiful little nonentity who is
using the, largely insignificant, matter of walking/bicycles as a
subject for him to wax loud and long about. Quite noticeably in a
bicycle group where he will be most likely to get a response, and of
course it is the response that massages his ego - "look Mama, they
noticed me!"

I am more than willing to talk about bicycles unconnected to trails if and when anybody wants. But so far just asshole mountain bikers are posting on this newsgroup as far as I can tell. As long as that is the the case. I am here to refute you and everything you stand for. Death to mountain bikers!

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Obviously the most effective method of dealing with the twerp would be
to ignore him but he posts such infantile arguments that there is the
temptation post a response to his arguments simply to demonstrate the
poorly thought out logic of his ascertains. Unfortunately it appears
that he is so poorly educated that he cannot formulate a rebuttal and
simply repeats his previous statements or, in desperation, falls back
on the utterances of his mentor, the convict.

I repeat previous statements because of what I get from the biker louts – the same old points being raised again and again. If anyone has any new points to bring up, I will gladly deal with them. But otherwise repetitions are all you deserve and all you will get.

Mr. Vandeman has better things to do than deal with a cretin like you. I on the other hand enjoy kicking dumb ass. From this point on all you will get from me is invective since you have proven yourself unworthy of anything else. Enjoy!

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

An insignificant twerp :-)

The only insignificant twerp here is you, which you prove with your every post.

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...
[...]

Edward Dolan wrote:

It is not as unlikely [a serious accident due to cycling on a trail] as you think it is. Helmets will not
protect you from a paralyzing injury. Bikers who ride their bikes on hiking
trails will hit something and go over the handlebars. It is not rare for this to
happen. How you land will determine how serious your injuries will be. Why risk
any of this?

Well, actually, I know precisely ... as a percentage per mile travelled ... how likely/unlikely it is. I have decided that this risk level is acceptable. I don't castigate anyone who takes a more cautious view but my choice is my choice and I, and any other adult who is mentally competent, am entitled to make up my own mind.

Of course, the reality is that the risk is variable and depends on many factors including the type of riding that one undertakes. Thus, taking one's children on the trail one would ensure that they were undertaking less risky activities whereas I would tend to gravitate towards the more extreme end of the spectrum with concomitantly greater risk.

You obviously do not read your own mountain biker propaganda. It is just chock full of nothing but enthusiasm for riding bikes on hiking trails. I see very litte there about the dangers of mountain biking. I assure you that most cyclists who ride their bikes on trails have no sense of the danger of it.

What you think you know and how you will feel if you get a serious injury from mountain biking are two different things. You need to grow up and put away childish things. Anyone who risks injury in the pursuit of a recreation is slightly crazy to say the least. You are a fool to “gravitate towards the more extreme end of the spectrum with concomitantly greater risk�.

However, since the odds of killing or disabling yourself whilst
walking down the stairs or taking a shower are also unlikely, but not zero, even
there you are not safe.

Hikers walking a trail are not in much danger of killing or
injuring themselves whereas bikers who do what they do on trails are. Very odd
that you would argue anything to the contrary.

I simply pointed out that the odds are not as extreme as you might expect. And, for this reason, a goodly number of hikers do succumb to fatal injuries as a result of hiking.

Hikers occasionally come to a bad end too but almost always from doing something they shouldn't have been doing. With mountain bikers it is just the opposite. They are doing what they think they should be doing and come to a bad end as a direct result of it. The two cases are very different.

Mountain biking, measured against other risks, is not at the top
of the risk tree ... but it's not at the bottom either. Pay your money and
take your choice. As I also enjoy extreme skiing and motorcycle racing I
take it you can guess where I draw the line.

You are risking life and limb doing dangerous things. When the
inevitable happens you will have nothing but second thoughts about the risk
taking. It is entirely possible to enjoy what the outdoors has to offer without
doing anything foolish. I enjoy trekking, but I would never for a moment
consider any kind of climbing. Why? It is dangerous and doesn't add to my
enjoyment of trekking. Adrenalin rushes are strictly for idiots.

Risk is endemic to living. Pretty much everything that you do has an element of risk. You may eschew 'dangerous' sports but then expire from congestive heart failure or as a result of a motoring accident. I think you're missing the fundamental point ... I AM fully aware of the risks and I CHOOSE to accept them. I am not alone in that and, in fact, many major breakthroughs in a lot of fields have resulted from people prepared to take calculated risks. Given that nearly every risk is well below 100% no, nothing is 'inevitable' as you posit. In fact, most people will enjoy their activity with nothing worse than a few bruises .... that's the norm.

That is NOT the norm with young males cycling on hiking trails. The injuries and deaths are out of all proportion to any enjoyment derived therefrom. It is an extremely dangerous thing to be doing. But there are plenty of older males and women and children who also suffer injuries while engaged in this “sport� because they are entirely ignorant of how dangerous it is.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs to be held responsible for this carnage. Mountain bikers themselves don't know **** about anything – period! They are heedless of the dangers just as you are, thinking it will never happen to them. All this blather about “calculated risks� is blarney – just whistling by the graveyard!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

Mountain biking ranked low on the list compared to hiking in
terms of popularity. That is all I was interested in.

But was more popular amongst first time participants and the young .... which means that, over time, it will grow relative to hiking. More people are taking up mountainbiking than hiking.

It is going to turn around rather quickly when the dangers become ever more apparent. Only a minority of fools engage in extreme sports.

You remind me of a bulldog that gets hold of some little
thing, however irrelevant, and then wants to hang onto it forever. Notice how I
move on, never stumbling over stuff that doesn't matter.

How does the aforementioned statement not matter Ed ... it directly contravenes your point about mountainbiking going away ... it's growing relative to hiking. The report confirms that there will be more new bikers and less new hikers so, over time, mountainbiking will overtake hiking if that trend continues.

I do not see that ‘trend’ developing at all. I see it going in just the opposite direction for many and various reasons. You need to look up the word “fad�.

Where are we right now on this thread? I am proving that
mountain biking is not as popular as you think it is and it is also far more
dangerous then you think it is. That is the subject of this thread - the
so-called "joys & pleasures", or is satire wasted on you?

No Ed, you're not proving that. Firstly, I never stated how popular or otherwise it was ... and, frankly, I don't particularly care. You just grabbed a statistic that you thought backed you up but, because you couldn't be bothered to read the rest, failed to notice what I've just pointed out.

The statistic did back me up. Trends don’t interest me since they are subject to interpretation. I am not a futurist.

Secondly, I already know what the risk is; 0.00123 killed per million miles travelled ... using data from your dear pal Vandeman who has a strong bias against mountainbiking so the real figure is likely significantly lower.

Your reliance on statistics is meaningless since it is impossible to measure with any confidence what we are concerned with. All the reports from the field are far more reliable because they involve real people in real situations.

Lastly, for satire to work it needs a common understanding. As I, and many others, genuinely do enjoy the Joys and Pleasures of cycling on trails the irony is lost on us ...

At least you recognize an attempt at satire when you see it. After all, if the “Joys and Pleasures� are coming from me, then you know I am meaning just the opposite. Most of your peers are way too stupid to know even that little.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

Mountain bikers who ride their bikes on hiking trails are the scum of the earth. I rejoice when they manage to kill themselves. It is always good riddance to bad rubbish.

The latest report from the trenches:

“http://www.marinij.com/letterstothee...rs-forum-feb-4

Marin Readers' Forum for Feb. 4

From Marin Independent Journal readers
Posted: 02/03/2014 06:19:00 PM PST

Keeps bikes off trails

So mountain bike leaders like Tom Boss of the Marin County Bicycle
Coalition are opposed to illegal trails? Then why don't they inform
authorities when these scars to our parks are being gouged out?

After all, the bikers who lead mountain bike groups are also the ones
who want these pointless jumps and stunts on public lands.

There has never been a case where a mountain bike organization has
ever fingered illegal trail builders.

Mountain bikers have this crazed mentality that their activity
supersedes all others, which justifies anything they do.

Do we really need to have bells ringing in our ears, getting us on
edge, not knowing how fast the biker is coming behind us, while we
are enjoying a walk?

Now the coalition is handing out more bells to mountain bikers so we
get to hear more bells letting us know that we should get out of the
way of speeding vehicles.

Mountain biking belongs on private lands. It is an activity that
contradicts the purpose and concept of trail use.

Bicycles are vehicles and belong only where other vehicles are
allowed in parklands.�

Only the brainless idiots to be found on this desultory newsgroup would disagree with any of the above. That such cretins should exist anywhere in the world is an insult to the intelligence of our species. But it is good that the Great One, namely ME, is here to kick their dumb asses. **** ’em all the way to Hell and back!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 00:05:20 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

Mountain bikers who ride their bikes on hiking trails are the scum of the earth. I rejoice when they manage to kill themselves. It is always good riddance to bad rubbish.

The latest report from the trenches:

“http://www.marinij.com/letterstothee...rs-forum-feb-4

Marin Readers' Forum for Feb. 4

From Marin Independent Journal readers
Posted: 02/03/2014 06:19:00 PM PST

Keeps bikes off trails

So mountain bike leaders like Tom Boss of the Marin County Bicycle
Coalition are opposed to illegal trails? Then why don't they inform
authorities when these scars to our parks are being gouged out?

After all, the bikers who lead mountain bike groups are also the ones
who want these pointless jumps and stunts on public lands.

There has never been a case where a mountain bike organization has
ever fingered illegal trail builders.

Mountain bikers have this crazed mentality that their activity
supersedes all others, which justifies anything they do.

Do we really need to have bells ringing in our ears, getting us on
edge, not knowing how fast the biker is coming behind us, while we
are enjoying a walk?

Now the coalition is handing out more bells to mountain bikers so we
get to hear more bells letting us know that we should get out of the
way of speeding vehicles.

Mountain biking belongs on private lands. It is an activity that
contradicts the purpose and concept of trail use.

Bicycles are vehicles and belong only where other vehicles are
allowed in parklands.”

Only the brainless idiots to be found on this desultory newsgroup would disagree with any of the above. That such cretins should exist anywhere in the world is an insult to the intelligence of our species. But it is good that the Great One, namely ME, is here to kick their dumb asses. **** ’em all the way to Hell and back!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

Dolan says, "Only the brainless idiots to be found on this desultory
newsgroup". Yes sir, we agree.

And we remember that Dolan it is that has lurked here practically.
forever. and finally he out does himself in self analysis.

Dolan the sell professed "brainless idiot".
--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 00:05:20 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:
[...]

Only the brainless idiots to be found on this desultory newsgroup would disagree with any of the above. That such cretins should exist anywhere in the world is an insult to the intelligence of our species. But it is good that the Great One, namely ME, is here to kick their dumb asses. **** ’em all the way to Hell and back!

Dolan says, "Only the brainless idiots to be found on this desultory
newsgroup". Yes sir, we agree.

You need to model yourself after Blackblade who at least tries to say something that is of general interest. It is because of Assholes like you that newsgroups are not what they should be. Name calling is so tiresome! Now go **** yourself and quit bothering the honorable members of this noble newsgroup.

And we remember that Dolan it is that has lurked here practically.
forever. and finally he out does himself in self analysis.

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 18:31:30 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message ...

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 00:05:20 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:
[...]

Only the brainless idiots to be found on this desultory newsgroup would disagree with any of the above. That such cretins should exist anywhere in the world is an insult to the intelligence of our species. But it is good that the Great One, namely ME, is here to kick their dumb asses. **** ’em all the way to Hell and back!

Dolan says, "Only the brainless idiots to be found on this desultory
newsgroup". Yes sir, we agree.

You need to model yourself after Blackblade who at least tries to say something that is of general interest. It is because of Assholes like you that newsgroups are not what they should be. Name calling is so tiresome! Now go **** yourself and quit bothering the honorable members of this noble newsgroup.

And we remember that Dolan it is that has lurked here practically.
forever. and finally he out does himself in self analysis.

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


sorry doodles but I can't talk to you any more. As you say ,"Only the
brainless idiots to be found on this desultory newsgroup". You
certainly do a great job of self analysis, don't you.

--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

sorry doodles but I can't talk to you any more. As you say ,"Only the
brainless idiots to be found on this desultory newsgroup". You
certainly do a great job of self analysis, don't you.

You bet! **** you too Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

Just another one of thousands of messages I have received via email newsletters about how mountain bikers are destroying everything connected with wilderness values by continuing to ride their bikes on hiking trails. May God Damn their rotten souls to everlasting Hellfire! Baring that eventuality, a good horsewhipping on their worthless backsides might do some good. Posse comitatus anyone?

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 17:20:40 -0800
Subject: What did MCBC know and when did they know it?

Good letter. It's truly amazing to me how much these mtb'ers lie
so straight faced. Reminds me of an old joke about the wife who
walks in on her husband having an affair. Later that day he's in
complete denial saying it was her imagination and asked her if she
was going to believe him or her "lying eyes". That's exactly how
these bikers are. They say that the majority of them are harmless &
try to disassociate themselves with the more radical faction. The
only good thing about the obvious damage that's shown up is that it's
irrefutable evidence of what they want to use our formerly pristine
parks for that could hopefully mobilize the public against them.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

The eternal dialogue continues with never any resolution insight. Blackblade aligns himself with the “responsible� bikers, but does he not know that a single rotten apple destroys the whole barrel. In actual fact, anyone who bikes on a hiking trail is a �rogue� biker. Mountain bikers have got to go – ALL of them.

“I have met, from time to time, a number of "responsible" mountain bikers. I consider myself a responsible mountain biker although I do not ride on the mountains, either on the trails or on the fire roads of Marin. I only ride on paved streets and areas where biking is permitted.

In addition, while hiking on the trails my wife and I have sometimes encounter "responsible" bikers who treat us and the environment respectfully.

My main point, is that if we distinguish between responsible bikers and rogue bikers, eventually the responsible bikers, or the so-called responsible bikers, will have to step forward and start confronting their rogue counterparts. This will probably be a while in coming.

But more important is that the general public and our public officials start to make this distinction. I think I am making an original contribution in the debate here as most people simply don't make the distinction at all. The more our public officials realize the damage being done by the rogue bikers, the more they will understand that they simply have to crack down. The long history of wishy-washy measures will one day be behind us only when our public officials become willing to crack down on the rogue bikers.

You have a good point. But consider this from the point of view of the wildlife: would you rather be run over by a "rogue" mountain biker, or a "responsible" mountain biker? You would be equally dead, either way. That's why I harp on wildlife all the time. A "polite" mountain biker can still be harmful to the wildlife. For one thing, they greatly extend the human footprint into natural areas, regardless of how polite they are to other humans. I suspect that if you challenge some of your "responsible" mountain bikers on such issues, they will stop being polite. That's been my experience: they are polite only as long as they are getting their way. Try asking more of them, and see what happens....

Great letter! But I have yet to meet a "responsible mountain biker". I doubt that such a thing exists. "Rogue" mountain bikers are at least a very large proportion of mountain bikers, and a very large number of people -- enough to put many of them in every single park.�
Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 19:34:33 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

sorry doodles but I can't talk to you any more. As you say ,"Only the
brainless idiots to be found on this desultory newsgroup". You
certainly do a great job of self analysis, don't you.

You bet! **** you too Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

Rather proves the "brainless idiots" title that you have allotted.

--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 19:47:55 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

Just another one of thousands of messages I have received via email newsletters about how mountain bikers are destroying everything connected with wilderness values by continuing to ride their bikes on hiking trails. May God Damn their rotten souls to everlasting Hellfire! Baring that eventuality, a good horsewhipping on their worthless backsides might do some good. Posse comitatus anyone?

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 17:20:40 -0800
Subject: What did MCBC know and when did they know it?

Good letter. It's truly amazing to me how much these mtb'ers lie
so straight faced. Reminds me of an old joke about the wife who
walks in on her husband having an affair. Later that day he's in
complete denial saying it was her imagination and asked her if she
was going to believe him or her "lying eyes". That's exactly how
these bikers are. They say that the majority of them are harmless &
try to disassociate themselves with the more radical faction. The
only good thing about the obvious damage that's shown up is that it's
irrefutable evidence of what they want to use our formerly pristine
parks for that could hopefully mobilize the public against them.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


More from the self anointed "brainless idiot".
--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

You obviously do not read your own mountain biker propaganda.
It is just chock full of nothing but enthusiasm for riding bikes on hiking
trails. I see very litte there about the dangers of mountain biking. I assure
you that most cyclists who ride their bikes on trails have no sense of the
danger of it.

We already had this conversation, and I posted links to a number of MTB sites which have crash and injury sections. Anyone who rides a bike understands that it is inherently unstable and they may fall off it.

I simply pointed out that the odds are not as extreme as you might
expect. And, for this reason, a goodly number of hikers do succumb to
fatal injuries as a result of hiking.

Hikers occasionally come to a bad end too but almost always
from doing something they shouldn't have been doing. With mountain bikers it is
just the opposite. They are doing what they think they should be doing and come
to a bad end as a direct result of it. The two cases are very
different.

This is your judgement ... you approve of hikers and disapprove of bikers. However, viewed objectively they are both doing the same thing ... recreation in a natural environment.

That is NOT the norm with young males cycling on hiking
trails. The injuries and deaths are out of all proportion to any enjoyment
derived therefrom. It is an extremely dangerous thing to be doing. But there are
plenty of older males and women and children who also suffer injuries while
engaged in this "sport" because they are entirely ignorant of how dangerous it
is.

It's not that dangerous ... 0.00123 is a lot less than driving ... and most people do that quite happily every day.

And, even if you were correct, adults are entitled to risk their own necks.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs
to be held responsible for this carnage.

You and I live in very different worlds. In mine, an adult is entitled to make their own decisions and then has to live with the consequences. Who do you propose is sued ?

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other, more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American Football for a start.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 19:47:55 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

Just another one of thousands of messages I have received via email newsletters about how mountain bikers are destroying everything connected with wilderness values by continuing to ride their bikes on hiking trails. May God Damn their rotten souls to everlasting Hellfire! Baring that eventuality, a good horsewhipping on their worthless backsides might do some good. Posse comitatus anyone?

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 17:20:40 -0800
Subject: What did MCBC know and when did they know it?

Good letter. It's truly amazing to me how much these mtb'ers lie
so straight faced. Reminds me of an old joke about the wife who
walks in on her husband having an affair. Later that day he's in
complete denial saying it was her imagination and asked her if she
was going to believe him or her "lying eyes". That's exactly how
these bikers are. They say that the majority of them are harmless &
try to disassociate themselves with the more radical faction. The
only good thing about the obvious damage that's shown up is that it's
irrefutable evidence of what they want to use our formerly pristine
parks for that could hopefully mobilize the public against them.

More from the self anointed "brainless idiot".

**** you too Asshole!

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 19:34:33 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

sorry doodles but I can't talk to you any more. As you say ,"Only the
brainless idiots to be found on this desultory newsgroup". You
certainly do a great job of self analysis, don't you.

You bet! **** you too Asshole!

Rather proves the "brainless idiots" title that you have allotted.

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

You obviously do not read your own mountain biker propaganda.
It is just chock full of nothing but enthusiasm for riding bikes on hiking
trails. I see very litte there about the dangers of mountain biking. I assure
you that most cyclists who ride their bikes on trails have no sense of the
danger of it.

We already had this conversation, and I posted links to a number of MTB sites which have crash and injury sections. Anyone who rides a bike understands that it is inherently unstable and they may fall off it.

It is a minority of cyclists who read that kind of ****. A bike is NOT inherently unstable, but it most certainly is when you are riding on a trail which was intended for walking.

I simply pointed out that the odds are not as extreme as you might
expect. And, for this reason, a goodly number of hikers do succumb to
fatal injuries as a result of hiking.

Hikers occasionally come to a bad end too but almost always
from doing something they shouldn't have been doing. With mountain bikers it is
just the opposite. They are doing what they think they should be doing and come
to a bad end as a direct result of it. The two cases are very
different.

This is your judgement ... you approve of hikers and disapprove of bikers. However, viewed objectively they are both doing the same thing .... recreation in a natural environment.

I have already stated many times in another thread on this newsgroup that hikers and bikers on trails are NOT doing the same thing at all. One is communing with nature and the other is desecrating nature for thrills and spills. It is why bikers need to have their own trails. What bikers are doing is not compatible with what hikers are doing. It is a conflict of both purpose and means.

That is NOT the norm with young males cycling on hiking
trails. The injuries and deaths are out of all proportion to any enjoyment
derived therefrom. It is an extremely dangerous thing to be doing. But there are
plenty of older males and women and children who also suffer injuries while
engaged in this "sport" because they are entirely ignorant of how dangerous it
is.

It's not that dangerous ... 0.00123 is a lot less than driving ... and most people do that quite happily every day.

And, even if you were correct, adults are entitled to risk their own necks.

These so called adults will soon be suing the owners and managers of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue for recreation.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs
to be held responsible for this carnage.

You and I live in very different worlds. In mine, an adult is entitled to make their own decisions and then has to live with the consequences. Who do you propose is sued ?

See above sentence. This thread is going to contain many reports about cyclists who have seriously injured themselves doing what you are doing – riding their bikes on trails. I wish them dead for doing what they are doing, but you are far more cruel and callous because you encourage them. I want them to stop; you want them to continue. Who is the real death merchant here?

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other, more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American Football for a start.

The fact is that most cyclists simply have no idea of how dangerous it is to bikes on trails. They buy a particular style of bike, see the trails and assume they are safe to ride. But they are NOT! This is fertile ground for lawsuits. ALL football players know full well the dangers of playing that incredibly stupid game. All the protective gear they wear tells the tale.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:31:55 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message ...

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 19:47:55 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

Just another one of thousands of messages I have received via email newsletters about how mountain bikers are destroying everything connected with wilderness values by continuing to ride their bikes on hiking trails. May God Damn their rotten souls to everlasting Hellfire! Baring that eventuality, a good horsewhipping on their worthless backsides might do some good. Posse comitatus anyone?

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 17:20:40 -0800
Subject: What did MCBC know and when did they know it?

Good letter. It's truly amazing to me how much these mtb'ers lie
so straight faced. Reminds me of an old joke about the wife who
walks in on her husband having an affair. Later that day he's in
complete denial saying it was her imagination and asked her if she
was going to believe him or her "lying eyes". That's exactly how
these bikers are. They say that the majority of them are harmless &
try to disassociate themselves with the more radical faction. The
only good thing about the obvious damage that's shown up is that it's
irrefutable evidence of what they want to use our formerly pristine
parks for that could hopefully mobilize the public against them.

More from the self anointed "brainless idiot".

**** you too Asshole!

Ah, but you reinforce your previous argument that those who post here
are "brainless idiots". What is it that they say, "Profanity is the
last refuge of the feeble mind"?

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Ah, but it is "content". You brought the subject up, you made the
statement that those who post on this site are "brainless idiots".
Hell, all I'm doing is agreeing with you that you post here and you
certainly are a brainless idiot.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great
--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:07:25 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

You obviously do not read your own mountain biker propaganda.
It is just chock full of nothing but enthusiasm for riding bikes on hiking
trails. I see very litte there about the dangers of mountain biking. I assure
you that most cyclists who ride their bikes on trails have no sense of the
danger of it.

We already had this conversation, and I posted links to a number of MTB sites which have crash and injury sections. Anyone who rides a bike understands that it is inherently unstable and they may fall off it.

It is a minority of cyclists who read that kind of ****. A bike is NOT inherently unstable, but it most certainly is when you are riding on a trail which was intended for walking.

I simply pointed out that the odds are not as extreme as you might
expect. And, for this reason, a goodly number of hikers do succumb to
fatal injuries as a result of hiking.

Hikers occasionally come to a bad end too but almost always
from doing something they shouldn't have been doing. With mountain bikers it is
just the opposite. They are doing what they think they should be doing and come
to a bad end as a direct result of it. The two cases are very
different.

This is your judgement ... you approve of hikers and disapprove of bikers. However, viewed objectively they are both doing the same thing ... recreation in a natural environment.

I have already stated many times in another thread on this newsgroup that hikers and bikers on trails are NOT doing the same thing at all. One is communing with nature and the other is desecrating nature for thrills and spills. It is why bikers need to have their own trails. What bikers are doing is not compatible with what hikers are doing. It is a conflict of both purpose and means.

That is NOT the norm with young males cycling on hiking
trails. The injuries and deaths are out of all proportion to any enjoyment
derived therefrom. It is an extremely dangerous thing to be doing. But there are
plenty of older males and women and children who also suffer injuries while
engaged in this "sport" because they are entirely ignorant of how dangerous it
is.

It's not that dangerous ... 0.00123 is a lot less than driving ... and most people do that quite happily every day.

And, even if you were correct, adults are entitled to risk their own necks.

These so called adults will soon be suing the owners and managers of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue for recreation.


What's next? Suing the weather woman for saying it is 50% chance of
showers and you got rained on?

But the most likely result of a suit against "the owners and managers
of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue" will
be the immediate closing of these lands to any ingress whatsoever.


I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs
to be held responsible for this carnage.

The CARNAGE MUST STOP! Close those Trails.
Jeasus Dolan, you have reached a new height in stupidity!

You and I live in very different worlds. In mine, an adult is entitled to make their own decisions and then has to live with the consequences. Who do you propose is sued ?

See above sentence. This thread is going to contain many reports about cyclists who have seriously injured themselves doing what you are doing – riding their bikes on trails. I wish them dead for doing what they are doing, but you are far more cruel and callous because you encourage them. I want them to stop; you want them to continue. Who is the real death merchant here?

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other, more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American Football for a start.

The fact is that most cyclists simply have no idea of how dangerous it is to bikes on trails. They buy a particular style of bike, see the trails and assume they are safe to ride. But they are NOT! This is fertile ground for lawsuits. ALL football players know full well the dangers of playing that incredibly stupid game. All the protective gear they wear tells the tale.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

No more walking Doodles, The trails are too dangerous.


Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great
--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:07:25 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

You obviously do not read your own mountain biker propaganda.
It is just chock full of nothing but enthusiasm for riding bikes on hiking
trails. I see very litte there about the dangers of mountain biking. I assure
you that most cyclists who ride their bikes on trails have no sense of the
danger of it.

We already had this conversation, and I posted links to a number of MTB sites which have crash and injury sections. Anyone who rides a bike understands that it is inherently unstable and they may fall off it.

It is a minority of cyclists who read that kind of ****. A bike is NOT inherently unstable, but it most certainly is when you are riding on a trail which was intended for walking.

I simply pointed out that the odds are not as extreme as you might
expect. And, for this reason, a goodly number of hikers do succumb to
fatal injuries as a result of hiking.

Hikers occasionally come to a bad end too but almost always
from doing something they shouldn't have been doing. With mountain bikers it is
just the opposite. They are doing what they think they should be doing and come
to a bad end as a direct result of it. The two cases are very
different.

This is your judgement ... you approve of hikers and disapprove of bikers. However, viewed objectively they are both doing the same thing ... recreation in a natural environment.

I have already stated many times in another thread on this newsgroup that hikers and bikers on trails are NOT doing the same thing at all. One is communing with nature

Communing with nature, are you? Of course you are. You got the big
fluffy jackets, the sturdy hiking boots, the nice light weight tent.
It looks more like you are cocooning yourselves from nature rather
then communicating intimately with it.

But I suppose that it sounds better to say "I'm communing with nature"
rather then to say, "I got caught in a torrential downpour, wet all
over, water running down the crack between my buttocks, shivering and
shaking, I need to see a doctor".



That is NOT the norm with young males cycling on hiking
trails. The injuries and deaths are out of all proportion to any enjoyment
derived therefrom. It is an extremely dangerous thing to be doing. But there are
plenty of older males and women and children who also suffer injuries while
engaged in this "sport" because they are entirely ignorant of how dangerous it
is.

It's not that dangerous ... 0.00123 is a lot less than driving ... and most people do that quite happily every day.

And, even if you were correct, adults are entitled to risk their own necks.

These so called adults will soon be suing the owners and managers of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue for recreation.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs
to be held responsible for this carnage.

You and I live in very different worlds. In mine, an adult is entitled to make their own decisions and then has to live with the consequences. Who do you propose is sued ?

See above sentence. This thread is going to contain many reports about cyclists who have seriously injured themselves doing what you are doing – riding their bikes on trails. I wish them dead for doing what they are doing, but you are far more cruel and callous because you encourage them. I want them to stop; you want them to continue. Who is the real death merchant here?

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other, more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American Football for a start.

The fact is that most cyclists simply have no idea of how dangerous it is to bikes on trails. They buy a particular style of bike, see the trails and assume they are safe to ride. But they are NOT! This is fertile ground for lawsuits. ALL football players know full well the dangers of playing that incredibly stupid game. All the protective gear they wear tells the tale.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great
--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

Ah, but you reinforce your previous argument that those who post here
are "brainless idiots". What is it that they say, "Profanity is the
last refuge of the feeble mind"?

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Ah, but it is "content". You brought the subject up, you made the
statement that those who post on this site are "brainless idiots".
Hell, all I'm doing is agreeing with you that you post here and you
certainly are a brainless idiot.

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

What's next? Suing the weather woman for saying it is 50% chance of
showers and you got rained on?

But the most likely result of a suit against "the owners and managers
of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue" will
be the immediate closing of these lands to any ingress whatsoever.

A likely result will be closing the trails to mountain biking. Such trails have been hiked for generations without any question of safety ever arising.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs
to be held responsible for this carnage.

The CARNAGE MUST STOP! Close those Trails.
Jeasus Dolan, you have reached a new height in stupidity!

Very funny ... coming from the stupidest Asshole ever to post to this group!

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:07:25 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

You obviously do not read your own mountain biker propaganda.
It is just chock full of nothing but enthusiasm for riding bikes on hiking
trails. I see very litte there about the dangers of mountain biking. I assure
you that most cyclists who ride their bikes on trails have no sense of the
danger of it.

We already had this conversation, and I posted links to a number of MTB sites which have crash and injury sections. Anyone who rides a bike understands that it is inherently unstable and they may fall off it.

It is a minority of cyclists who read that kind of ****. A bike is NOT inherently unstable, but it most certainly is when you are riding on a trail which was intended for walking.

I simply pointed out that the odds are not as extreme as you might
expect. And, for this reason, a goodly number of hikers do succumb to
fatal injuries as a result of hiking.

Hikers occasionally come to a bad end too but almost always
from doing something they shouldn't have been doing. With mountain bikers it is
just the opposite. They are doing what they think they should be doing and come
to a bad end as a direct result of it. The two cases are very
different.

This is your judgement ... you approve of hikers and disapprove of bikers. However, viewed objectively they are both doing the same thing .... recreation in a natural environment.

I have already stated many times in another thread on this newsgroup that hikers and bikers on trails are NOT doing the same thing at all. One is communing with nature

Communing with nature, are you? Of course you are. You got the big
fluffy jackets, the sturdy hiking boots, the nice light weight tent.
It looks more like you are cocooning yourselves from nature rather
then communicating intimately with it.

But I suppose that it sounds better to say "I'm communing with nature"
rather then to say, "I got caught in a torrential downpour, wet all
over, water running down the crack between my buttocks, shivering and
shaking, I need to see a doctor".

There has got to be something wrong with the way your brain works. Equipping yourself for a hike in the wilderness is one thing, Equipping yourself with a wheeled vehicle is quite another. But I guess if I were as stupid as you are, I could not see any difference either.

That is NOT the norm with young males cycling on hiking
trails. The injuries and deaths are out of all proportion to any enjoyment
derived therefrom. It is an extremely dangerous thing to be doing. But there are
plenty of older males and women and children who also suffer injuries while
engaged in this "sport" because they are entirely ignorant of how dangerous it
is.

It's not that dangerous ... 0.00123 is a lot less than driving ... and most people do that quite happily every day.

And, even if you were correct, adults are entitled to risk their own necks.

These so called adults will soon be suing the owners and managers of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue for recreation.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs
to be held responsible for this carnage.

You and I live in very different worlds. In mine, an adult is entitled to make their own decisions and then has to live with the consequences. Who do you propose is sued ?

See above sentence. This thread is going to contain many reports about cyclists who have seriously injured themselves doing what you are doing – riding their bikes on trails. I wish them dead for doing what they are doing, but you are far more cruel and callous because you encourage them. I want them to stop; you want them to continue. Who is the real death merchant here?

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other, more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American Football for a start.

The fact is that most cyclists simply have no idea of how dangerous it is to bike on trails. They buy a particular style of bike, see the trails and assume they are safe to ride. But they are NOT! This is fertile ground for lawsuits. ALL football players know full well the dangers of playing that incredibly stupid game. All the protective gear they wear tells the tale.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

Blackblade states that hikers and bikers are doing the same thing on trails, i.e., recreating in the out of doors. Here is evidence that in fact they are NOT doing the same thing at all. Bikers are into thrills and spills, fun and games. Hikers and equestrians are communing with nature. These two very different types of activity cannot coexist on the same trails. Bikers need their own god damn ****ing trails entirely separated (preferably by hundreds of miles) from trails for civilized folks.

Here is the bad news. Read it and weep! Blackblade most particularly needs to go to ALL the links, something that I am way too smart to ever do since I KNOW what they are about ... because, unlike Blackblade, I posses some common sense.

“Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 09:39:49 -0800
Subject: IMBA encourages bikers and bike clubs to ask for more trails access
in State Parks; proof of speeding on trails
From: Karen Sullivan

Tom Ward, a former State Park employee has helped craft the process
for making it easier to obtain access on all State Park trails

https://www.imba.com/blog/patrick-ke...e-parks-update

If you don't already think speeding bikes in State Parks is a problem,
please look at the following links for You Tube racing in California
State Parks Annadel, China Camp and Wilder.

STRAVA is a new smart phone app that allows cyclists to track and post
their particular run and challenge others to beat their times. This
is a public website. Through STRAVA, you can see how many recorded
runs on each trail (one trail at China Camp has over 13,000 attempts),
and the maximum speed reached (30-40 MPH on some sections of trails!!!

PLEASE view the links below the contact info. and send concerns to Ken
Wiseman, Executive Director, Parks Forward Initiative, at
.,
To make a comment about CA State Parks: http://parksforward.com/questions
and

phone numbers for district offices
http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=24248

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wilder Ranch State Park
steep, drop-offs, no sightlines, blind corners,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJCMpdJibn4

Enchanted Loop Downhill narrow, drop-offs, lots of vegetation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MPT3VIIwac

Old Cabin Loop "smashing down Old Cabin Loop lots of trail damage,
gong too fast, cliffs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JCsVZlnAqw

Pogonip, Wilder VERY poor visibility and sightlines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpY74ehwuQE

STRAVA at Wilder

Enchanted Forest DH 2257 Attempts By 1009 People
http://www.strava.com/segments/693945

Maple Muffin's ride Max speed 32.9 MPH
http://www.strava.com/activities/103787883#2239007488

Zane Grey 1968 Attempts By 785 People
http://www.strava.com/segments/643126

Brock Dickies ride max speed 36.9 MPH
http://www.strava.com/activities/62194743#1170568171
---------------------------------------
China Camp State Park

"What it's like to climb a mountain and haul ass down"

This is nuts!! Extremely narrow trail with a lot of vegetation, blind
corners and very steep dropoffs!
How can State Parks consider this a multi-use trail?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9TWFzPHCM

Does not stop for the hikers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv4G6F-to0o

STRAVA at China Camp

China Camp East Descent (Full) 13512 Attempts By 2826 People
http://www.strava.com/activities/65740633#1256049743

Danimal's VP's ride max speed 41.2 MPH
http://www.strava.com/activities/65740633#1256049743

Smashing switchbacks ride 9450 Attempts By 1944 People
http://www.strava.com/segments/2141110

Aa ron's ride Max speed . 26.5 MPH
http://www.strava.com/activities/48383405#847934290

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Annadel State Park

Bikers going way too fast on multi-use trails, going off trail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRt9ey9FPdk

rider goes out of control, falls. And State Parks thinks this is a
compatable use with hikers and equestrians?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dfXHOmVtqE

STRAVA: at Annadel

Lawndale dowhhill. 5018 Attempts By 1584 People
http://www.strava.com/segments/667915

Shane Ball's ride max soeed 32.9 MPH
http://www.strava.com/activities/2540711#43098533

North Burma Top Half DH 11172 Attempts By 2177 People
http://www.strava.com/segments/798959

Nick Moreda's ride max speed 30.2 MPH
http://www.strava.com/activities/59622957#1110436329�

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

It is going to turn around rather quickly when the dangers
become ever more apparent. Only a minority of fools engage in extreme
sports.

Well, as it's been growing for over 20 years and, after all that time, it's still being taken up by more young people and first time participants than hiking your proposition looks, shall we say, .... unlikely :-).

I do not see that 'trend' developing at all. I see it going in
just the opposite direction for many and various reasons. You need to look up
the word "fad".

Yes, Ed, a 'fad' that's lasted for decades ... I think you'll find that is called a trend.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

It [mountain biking] is going to turn around rather quickly when the dangers
become ever more apparent. Only a minority of fools engage in extreme
sports.

Well, as it's been growing for over 20 years and, after all that time, it's still being taken up by more young people and first time participants than hiking your proposition looks, shall we say, .... unlikely :-).

I do not see that 'trend' developing at all. I see it going in
just the opposite direction for many and various reasons. You need to look up
the word "fad".

Yes, Ed, a 'fad' that's lasted for decades ... I think you'll find that is called a trend.

Trends come and go the same way fads do. What is going to kill mountain biking are all the deaths and injuries. Mountain biking is not considered an extreme sport, yet it racks up deaths and injuries just like most extreme sports. The vast majority of people in this world do not want to risk life and limb for a mere recreation. Only an extremely stupid minority of fools want to do that.

If you want an adrenalin rush I suggest you go to amusement parks and ride the roller coasters. That is a pretty safe thing to do.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

Trends come and go the same way fads do. What is going to kill
mountain biking are all the deaths and injuries. Mountain biking is not
considered an extreme sport, yet it racks up deaths and injuries just like most
extreme sports. The vast majority of people in this world do not want to risk
life and limb for a mere recreation. Only an extremely stupid minority of fools
want to do that.

Well, IF there were all these deaths and injuries then you might have a point. However, the statistics don't back you up ... Mountainbiking is relatively safe ... a rate of 1.54 per 1,000 exposures is less than soccer, rugby, american football, road cycling etc etc etc. (http://emj.bmj.com/content/early/201...9.086991.full).

So, once again, you're incorrect; mountainbiking produces injury and death statistics nowhere near 'extreme' sports.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

We already had this conversation, and I posted links to a number
of MTB sites which have crash and injury sections. Anyone who rides a bike
understands that it is inherently unstable and they may fall off it.

It is a minority of cyclists who read that kind of ****. A
bike is NOT inherently unstable, but it most certainly is when you are riding on
a trail which was intended for walking.

Oh, a bike is not inherently unstable ? What nonsense. Try this ... ride into your drive, then dismount and leave your bike standing in the middle unsupported. If it's still upright an hour later then I'll agree that it's stable ... but ...

This is your judgement ... you approve of hikers and disapprove of
bikers. However, viewed objectively they are both doing the same thing ....
recreation in a natural environment.

I have already stated many times in another thread on this
newsgroup that hikers and bikers on trails are NOT doing the same thing at all.

And I have also stated that I don't care what you think, particularly since you are all over the place with your pronouncements. You're happy to permit running ... which is clearly not about "communing with nature" but have a huge issue with bikes.

"Communing with nature" is still recreation. You don't NEED to do it any more than you need to ride a mountainbike. They are both recreations.

And, even if you were correct, adults are entitled to risk their
own necks.

These so called adults will soon be suing the owners and
managers of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue for
recreation.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs

to be held responsible for this carnage.

You and I live in very different worlds. In mine, an adult
is entitled to make their own decisions and then has to live with the
consequences. Who do you propose is sued ?

See above sentence. This thread is going to contain many
reports about cyclists who have seriously injured themselves doing what you are
doing - riding their bikes on trails. I wish them dead for doing what they are
doing, but you are far more cruel and callous because you encourage them. I want
them to stop; you want them to continue. Who is the real death merchant
here?

How the hell did we get to 'death merchant' and surely even you don't have the sheer effrontery to try and claim that you care about injuries to mountainbikers ? You've written enough times that you like to see them injured and killed in this thread. You don't want them to stop for their own good, you want them to stop so that you can enjoy your recreation in magnificent solitude.

I don't want anything other than that I, and they, have the right to choose.. I'm in favour of personal choice and personal responsibility. I have no issue with highlighting the real risks associated with activities so that people are participating with their eyes wide open. I support things like the Isle of Man TT despite the fact that there are several fatalities every year. I visit the Nurburgring regularly. As was posted on the epitaph to David Jefferies ... "Those who risk nothing do nothing, achieve nothing, become nothing". We are all going to die one day ... I strongly advise living first rather than worrying about it.

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other,
more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American
Football for a start.

The fact is that most cyclists simply have no idea of how
dangerous it is to bikes on trails. They buy a particular style of bike, see the
trails and assume they are safe to ride. But they are NOT! This is fertile
ground for lawsuits. ALL football players know full well the dangers of playing
that incredibly stupid game. All the protective gear they wear tells the
tale.

The reality is that it's NOT that dangerous; all Vandeman's trolling still shows up, worldwide, hardly any fatalities compared with participants. The British Medical Journal, hardly a byword for supporting risky endeavours, also concludes that it's low risk.

But, by all means, post your foolish rants about the danger levels and let people make up their own minds ...

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:18:12 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

What's next? Suing the weather woman for saying it is 50% chance of
showers and you got rained on?

But the most likely result of a suit against "the owners and managers
of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue" will
be the immediate closing of these lands to any ingress whatsoever.

A likely result will be closing the trails to mountain biking. Such trails have been hiked for generations without any question of safety ever arising.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs
to be held responsible for this carnage.

The CARNAGE MUST STOP! Close those Trails.
Jeasus Dolan, you have reached a new height in stupidity!

Very funny ... coming from the stupidest Asshole ever to post to this group!

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.


I must say, you are proving without a doubt that the group is inundate
with fools, and you, it seems, are the leader of the pack.

Ever hear of an all terrain vehicle? the U.S. Army spent a ton of
money to develop one. You know, a wheeled vehicle that will go almost
anywhere.

So obviously your assertion that wheels are for roads is just another
example of how stupid you really are.

Old Dum Dum Dolan dooed it again.


Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great
--
Cheers,

John B.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

Blackblade states that hikers and bikers are doing the same
thing on trails, i.e., recreating in the out of doors. Here is evidence that in
fact they are NOT doing the same thing at all.

Oxford English Dictionary
Recreation; activity done for enjoyment when one is not working

Quad erat demonstrandum; hiking and biking are both recreations.

lots of links to people riding trails and to Strava records ... snipped

Two things;

1. Note that in all the videos there are hardly any people ... for the vast majority of the time there is no interaction with other trail users. Therefore, there should be no issue in sharing these trails at all.

2. Perceptions of speed can be very misleading and you should also remember that mountain bikes are equipped with very powerful disk brakes; we can stop much more quickly than most hikers or road cyclists would imagine.

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

Ever hear of an all terrain vehicle? the U.S. Army spent a ton of
money to develop one. You know, a wheeled vehicle that will go almost
anywhere.

So obviously your assertion that wheels are for roads is just another
example of how stupid you really are.

So now you want all terrain vehicles on hiking trails? You are way beyond stupid; you are criminally stupid.

Now go **** yourself and quit bothering the honorable members of this noble newsgroup.

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

Blackblade states that hikers and bikers are doing the same
thing on trails, i.e., recreating in the out of doors. Here is evidence that in
fact they are NOT doing the same thing at all.

Oxford English Dictionary
Recreation; activity done for enjoyment when one is not working

Quad erat demonstrandum; hiking and biking are both recreations.

But not the same KIND of recreation. Both purpose and means are different.

lots of links to people riding trails and to Strava records ... snipped

Two things;

1. Note that in all the videos there are hardly any people ... for the vast majority of the time there is no interaction with other trail users. Therefore, there should be no issue in sharing these trails at all.

2. Perceptions of speed can be very misleading and you should also remember that mountain bikes are equipped with very powerful disk brakes; we can stop much more quickly than most hikers or road cyclists would imagine.

1. Obviously you do not care what anyone has to to say about a situation. They are all lying thru their teeth? Right?

2. Speed doesn't matter since bikes have brakes and can stop whenever and wherever? Good to know that bit of information, although what it has to do with bikes on trails is not readily apparent. You need to see a psychiatrist to find out what is making your brain tick!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

I have already stated many times in another thread on this
newsgroup that hikers and bikers on trails are NOT doing the same thing at all.

And I have also stated that I don't care what you think, particularly since you are all over the place with your pronouncements. You're happy to permit running ... which is clearly not about "communing with nature" but have a huge issue with bikes.

Not caring what is said and refuting what is said are two different things. Too bad you can’t refute anything except crying like a baby when you can’t have your way.

"Communing with nature" is still recreation. You don't NEED to do it any more than you need to ride a mountainbike. They are both recreations.

The two recreations are entirely different, both with respect to purpose and means.
[...]

See above sentence. This thread is going to contain many
reports about cyclists who have seriously injured themselves doing what you are
doing - riding their bikes on trails. I wish them dead for doing what they are
doing, but you are far more cruel and callous because you encourage them. I want
them to stop; you want them to continue. Who is the real death merchant
here?

How the hell did we get to 'death merchant' and surely even you don't have the sheer effrontery to try and claim that you care about injuries to mountainbikers ? You've written enough times that you like to see them injured and killed in this thread. You don't want them to stop for their own good, you want them to stop so that you can enjoy your recreation in magnificent solitude.

I want them to stop – period. What does the reason matter? You want them to continue – period. What does the reason matter? They will continue to injure and kill themselves because of slobs like you, not because of slobs like me. You are indeed a merchant of death.

I don't want anything other than that I, and they, have the right to choose. I'm in favour of personal choice and personal responsibility. I have no issue with highlighting the real risks associated with activities so that people are participating with their eyes wide open. I support things like the Isle of Man TT despite the fact that there are several fatalities every year. I visit the Nurburgring regularly. As was posted on the epitaph to David Jefferies ... "Those who risk nothing do nothing, achieve nothing, become nothing". We are all going to die one day ... I strongly advise living first rather than worrying about it.

And I have already stated repeatedly that I regard you as a fool for risking life and limb doing stupid things. You are certainly welcome to kill yourself, but you advocate that others go and do what you do. That makes you a merchant of death. You are a form of poison to humanity – and you illustrate perfectly the mountain biker ethos. I don’t want you and your ilk anywhere near hiking trails.

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other,
more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American
Football for a start.

The fact is that most cyclists simply have no idea of how
dangerous it is to bikes on trails. They buy a particular style of bike, see the
trails and assume they are safe to ride. But they are NOT! This is fertile
ground for lawsuits. ALL football players know full well the dangers of playing
that incredibly stupid game. All the protective gear they wear tells the
tale.

The reality is that it's NOT that dangerous; all Vandeman's trolling still shows up, worldwide, hardly any fatalities compared with participants. The British Medical Journal, hardly a byword for supporting risky endeavours, also concludes that it's low risk.

But, by all means, post your foolish rants about the danger levels and let people make up their own minds ...

I do indeed want others to make up their own minds. But let them make up their own minds riding trails designed for wheels and not trails designed for walking. I am not a merchant of death like you are.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails
 

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

Trends come and go the same way fads do. What is going to kill
mountain biking are all the deaths and injuries. Mountain biking is not
considered an extreme sport, yet it racks up deaths and injuries just like most
extreme sports. The vast majority of people in this world do not want to risk
life and limb for a mere recreation. Only an extremely stupid minority of fools
want to do that.

Well, IF there were all these deaths and injuries then you might have a point. However, the statistics don't back you up ... Mountainbiking is relatively safe ... a rate of 1.54 per 1,000 exposures is less than soccer, rugby, american football, road cycling etc etc etc. (http://emj.bmj.com/content/early/201...9.086991.full).

So, once again, you're incorrect; mountainbiking produces injury and death statistics nowhere near 'extreme' sports.

You are not only wrong, but wrongheaded. I will continue to report stories from the field of what is actually happening on the trails and you can continue to puzzle over numbers (statistics) until kingdom come and we shall see who is the more persuasive.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great