Eyc headlight problem
On last night's ride I took the touring bike with its B&M Eyc headlight
powered by an old Union bottle dynamo. (Usually I take a bike with a hub dyno.) The Lumotec Eyc is about 2/3 down this page: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.php My friend who rides with me often leaves his headlight off to save his battery, since we can see so well by mine. But not last night. Right at the start, my headlight turned itself off. I tried the switch (and I do dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would occasionally blink off then back on. At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface. Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second. But its very worrisome. I'll be writing to Peter White, from whom I bought this. But I'm wondering if anyone here has had similar troubles with a B&M lamp, or if anyone wants to get a head start on speculating. (When my electronic poltergeist starts infecting my bike equipment, it's a bad, bad sign.) -- - Frank Krygowski |
Eyc headlight problem
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 11:40:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: I tried the switch (and I do dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would occasionally blink off then back on. At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface. Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second. But its very worrisome. I've seen similar symptoms with LiIon flashlights and battery powered bicycle lighting. My guess(tm) is a loose connection somewhere in the wiring system. As you mention, it could also be inside the light. The erratic intermittent behavior suggests that it's NOT an electronics component failure, which would be more cyclic. Most commonly (in flashlights), I see this caused by the LED COB. The LED is soldered onto the PCB (printed circuit board) forming the COB (chip on board). The PCB will flex as the LED heats up eventually breaking the solder connection. The solder doesn't really melt, but instead cracks. I fix these using a hot air SMD soldering station: https://www.google.com/search?q=hot+air+smd+rework+station&tbm=isch Tear the light apart, and touch the LED or slightly bend the PCB while the lamp is operating. If it flickers, you found the problem. It can also be components other than the LED, which should be detectable by bending the PCB or visual inspection. Using the SMD soldering station takes practice. I suggest you find someone who knows how to use one. Another problem I've seen are crappy wire connections. These come in a variety of failures such as cold solder connection, bad crimp, insulation displacement, jacket creep, and corrosion. The best way to find these is by probing with a DVM (digital volt meter). The catch is that you can only find a bad connection if the light is in failure mode. If it seems to be working normally on the workbench, you're probably better off taking the light and wiring apart and pulling on each connection. If the connection moves, stretches, or falls apart, you found the problem. Corrosion should be obvious. Also, look for annual rings (usually black) around wires that run through holes in the PCB. Such rings are cold solder joints, caused by the assembler being in a hurry, and need to be restarted. I've only seen one broken wire on a bicycle, which took me weeks to isolate. I finally found it by pulling on each of the wire ends. One wire seemed to stretch, indicating a break somewhere. I found where the insulation necked down from the stretching and spliced the wire. Problem solved. This wire was NOT under tension and showed no sign of corrosion, so my guess(tm) is that the wire was defective from the vendor. However, my initial wild guess points to the Union bottle dynamo. I haven't seen any failures with these because I don't use them. However, if it's as old as you suggest, it might be a good place to start. Try powering the light with a battery or power supply. Then, disconnect one of the power wires. The B&M lights usually have a stand light feature, which is basically a supercap to power the LED while the generator is NOT turning. If you disconnect the power wire, and the light goes into stand light mode, and slowly fades away, then it's working normally. Therefore, the problem is likely NOT in the dynamo or wiring that power the light. I would need to be after the stand light circuitry inside the B&M light. Good luck. Drivel: https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Dizoangphobia https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/BMWphobia https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Cyclophobia -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Eyc headlight problem
Op zondag 28 maart 2021 om 17:40:15 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On last night's ride I took the touring bike with its B&M Eyc headlight powered by an old Union bottle dynamo. (Usually I take a bike with a hub dyno.) The Lumotec Eyc is about 2/3 down this page: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.php My friend who rides with me often leaves his headlight off to save his battery, since we can see so well by mine. But not last night. Right at the start, my headlight turned itself off. I tried the switch (and I do dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would occasionally blink off then back on. At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface. Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second. But its very worrisome. I'll be writing to Peter White, from whom I bought this. But I'm wondering if anyone here has had similar troubles with a B&M lamp, or if anyone wants to get a head start on speculating. (When my electronic poltergeist starts infecting my bike equipment, it's a bad, bad sign.) -- - Frank Krygowski I have LED spotlights in the bathroom, porch with a promised lifetime of 20000hr or something like that. That is utter BS because they will fail almost all well within that time. It is not the LED that fails but some of the electronic component on the (small) PCB that drives the LED. They fail in a manner you described. I think it is a heat issue. Lou |
Eyc headlight problem
On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 12:50:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Op zondag 28 maart 2021 om 17:40:15 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski: On last night's ride I took the touring bike with its B&M Eyc headlight powered by an old Union bottle dynamo. (Usually I take a bike with a hub dyno.) The Lumotec Eyc is about 2/3 down this page: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.php My friend who rides with me often leaves his headlight off to save his battery, since we can see so well by mine. But not last night. Right at the start, my headlight turned itself off. I tried the switch (and I do dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would occasionally blink off then back on. At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface. Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second.. But its very worrisome. I'll be writing to Peter White, from whom I bought this. But I'm wondering if anyone here has had similar troubles with a B&M lamp, or if anyone wants to get a head start on speculating. (When my electronic poltergeist starts infecting my bike equipment, it's a bad, bad sign.) -- - Frank Krygowski I have LED spotlights in the bathroom, porch with a promised lifetime of 20000hr or something like that. That is utter BS because they will fail almost all well within that time. It is not the LED that fails but some of the electronic component on the (small) PCB that drives the LED. They fail in a manner you described. I think it is a heat issue. Lou All the new fangled bulbs claim to last years and years. I can tell you it is fake news. Deacon Mark |
Eyc headlight problem
On 3/28/2021 10:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
snip Another problem I've seen are crappy wire connections. These come in a variety of failures such as cold solder connection, bad crimp, insulation displacement, jacket creep, and corrosion. I'd first look for bad crimps. I crimp then solder for both a good electrical and good mechanical connection, except on crimp connections like Anderson Powerpole where it's not practical to solder after crimping. If the bottle dynamo uses a bare wire then hopefully there's a little extra length to create a clean connection. |
Eyc headlight problem
On 3/28/2021 1:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 11:40:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: I tried the switch (and I do dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would occasionally blink off then back on. At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface. Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second. But its very worrisome. I've seen similar symptoms with LiIon flashlights and battery powered bicycle lighting. My guess(tm) is a loose connection somewhere in the wiring system. As you mention, it could also be inside the light. The erratic intermittent behavior suggests that it's NOT an electronics component failure, which would be more cyclic. Most commonly (in flashlights), I see this caused by the LED COB. The LED is soldered onto the PCB (printed circuit board) forming the COB (chip on board). The PCB will flex as the LED heats up eventually breaking the solder connection. The solder doesn't really melt, but instead cracks. I fix these using a hot air SMD soldering station: https://www.google.com/search?q=hot+air+smd+rework+station&tbm=isch Tear the light apart, and touch the LED or slightly bend the PCB while the lamp is operating. If it flickers, you found the problem. It can also be components other than the LED, which should be detectable by bending the PCB or visual inspection. Using the SMD soldering station takes practice. I suggest you find someone who knows how to use one. Another problem I've seen are crappy wire connections. These come in a variety of failures such as cold solder connection, bad crimp, insulation displacement, jacket creep, and corrosion. The best way to find these is by probing with a DVM (digital volt meter). The catch is that you can only find a bad connection if the light is in failure mode. If it seems to be working normally on the workbench, you're probably better off taking the light and wiring apart and pulling on each connection. If the connection moves, stretches, or falls apart, you found the problem. Corrosion should be obvious. Also, look for annual rings (usually black) around wires that run through holes in the PCB. Such rings are cold solder joints, caused by the assembler being in a hurry, and need to be restarted. I've only seen one broken wire on a bicycle, which took me weeks to isolate. I finally found it by pulling on each of the wire ends. One wire seemed to stretch, indicating a break somewhere. I found where the insulation necked down from the stretching and spliced the wire. Problem solved. This wire was NOT under tension and showed no sign of corrosion, so my guess(tm) is that the wire was defective from the vendor. However, my initial wild guess points to the Union bottle dynamo. I haven't seen any failures with these because I don't use them. However, if it's as old as you suggest, it might be a good place to start. Try powering the light with a battery or power supply. Then, disconnect one of the power wires. The B&M lights usually have a stand light feature, which is basically a supercap to power the LED while the generator is NOT turning. If you disconnect the power wire, and the light goes into stand light mode, and slowly fades away, then it's working normally. Therefore, the problem is likely NOT in the dynamo or wiring that power the light. I would need to be after the stand light circuitry inside the B&M light. Good luck. Drivel: https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Dizoangphobia https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/BMWphobia https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Cyclophobia Thanks for the information. I've emailed Peter White and will say what he says before I dig in further. But as I said, I suspect the problem is internal to the headlamp because one of the time it shut down, I was stationary. The light was in standlight mode, during which it gets no external current supply. The standlight turned off just as suddenly as the main light was doing. But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a 6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.) -- - Frank Krygowski |
Eyc headlight problem
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote: I have LED spotlights in the bathroom, porch with a promised lifetime of 20000hr or something like that. That is utter BS because they will fail almost all well within that time. 20,000 hrs would be: 20,000hrs / 8766hrs/year = 2.3 years if you ran it 24x7. Multiply the 2.4 years by whatever fraction of a day your bathroom and porch lights operate (duty cycle) to obtain the estimate lifetime. Note that lifetime for consumer LED bulbs is measured to the point where the light output (Lumens) decreases to 70% or 80% of initial value (L70 or L80). Here's some stuff from Australia on the topic: http://www.liteonled.com.au/led-light-bulb-life-time/ Note that nobody is going to run an LED light test for years and years. So, there are various schemes, such as TM-21, for extrapolating the lifetime of the LED, again based on loss of output, not catastrophic failu http://www.liteonled.com.au/buying-guide/led-life-time/l70-lm-80-and-tm-21-data/ It's this extrapolation, combined with somewhat ignoring catastrophic failures, and absurd over-control of operating temperature, that is producing very large numbers for LED lifetime. Also, note that the only thing that a consumer LED lighting has in common with bicycle lighting is that both use similar LEDs. The boost or buck inverters are quite different, the cooling problems are different, and the operating levels are VERY different. If bicycle lighting was designed to operate at the temperatures and output levels similar to consumer LED lighting, we would be blowing up LED bicycle headlights at an alarming rate. In other words, a 100 watt equivalent LED bulb (14 watts, 1350 lumens) is not the same as a B&M Lumotec Eyc running on perhaps 3 watts. The major difference is the operating temperature and the luminaire (housing). The typical consumer lighting fixture is a bad joke which seems to be designed to incinerate the LED bulb. Death from overheating is common. On a bicycle, there is moving air to cool the housing and fewer things in the way before getting to ambient air. Put a bicycle headlight inside a home luminaire, and you'll probably be burning out headlights from overheating. It is not the LED that fails but some of the electronic component on the (small) PCB that drives the LED. They fail in a manner you described. I think it is a heat issue. I agree. It's the driver board that dies first, not the LED. However, that's not the case for all consumer LED lamps. Many of the COB (chip on board) mounts for LEDs are lacking in heat conduction. How the LED chip conducts heat to the COB is critical. The construction of the COB is also critical. For example, it should be ceramic or aluminum, not G10/FR10 PCB material. Yet, I see flashlights, light bulbs, and cheap headlights using PCB material. Another problem is that the consumer LED bulb drivers often use aluminum electrolytic capacitors. These do not like high temperatures and conveniently follow a well known temp to lifetime curve: https://elc.kemet.com https://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx Give me the operating electrical conditions and temperatures, and I can estimate when the capacitor will blow up. Want a 3 year lifetime? I can provide the capacitor values needed to have most of the components on the driver PCB blow up simultaneously. "Selecting the right capacitor to ensure longer life of LEDs" https://www.electronicsb2b.com/important-sectors/leds-led-lighting/right-capacitor-to-ensure-longer-life-of-leds/ "How Electrolytic Capacitors Effect the Reliability of LED Drivers" https://www.led-drivers.com.au/blog/how-electrolytic-capacitors-effect-reliability-led-drivers On the graph, notice how an operating temperature above 55C case temperature has a drastic effect on capacitor life. "Ensure long lifetimes from electrolytic capacitors: A case study in LED light bulbs" https://www.edn.com/ensure-long-lifetimes-from-electrolytic-capacitors-a-case-study-in-led-light-bulbs/ Note that MLCC (multi-layer ceramic capacitors) are a big improvement over electrolytic caps, but still have (different) problems. Polymer caps are a good compromise, but tend to be expensive. I've seen them in computers and expect to see them in LED lighting eventually. "Polymer Film Capacitors for LED Drivers" https://www.powersystemsdesign.com/articles/polymer-film-capacitors-for-led-drivers/36/5690 Incidentally, a friend who specializes in lighting electronics design, once told me that he could recognize the quality and lifetime of a lighting driver or bulb by just looking at the capacitors. I'm not sure I could do it today, but thinking back, his method was quite accurate. Enough for now. May the light at the end of the tunnel not be a fire. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Eyc headlight problem
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 18:08:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: But as I said, I suspect the problem is internal to the headlamp because one of the time it shut down, I was stationary. The light was in standlight mode, during which it gets no external current supply. The standlight turned off just as suddenly as the main light was doing. Good observation. I also mentioned it at the end of my rant. Whatever is intermittent is inside the headlight. But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a 6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.) Bottles are usually designed to run 6 volts and 3 watts at about 15 km/hr. http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html 6V should work, but watch out that the light doesn't get too hot. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Eyc headlight problem
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 14:14:17 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote: On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 12:50:33 PM UTC-5, wrote: Op zondag 28 maart 2021 om 17:40:15 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski: On last night's ride I took the touring bike with its B&M Eyc headlight powered by an old Union bottle dynamo. (Usually I take a bike with a hub dyno.) The Lumotec Eyc is about 2/3 down this page: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.php My friend who rides with me often leaves his headlight off to save his battery, since we can see so well by mine. But not last night. Right at the start, my headlight turned itself off. I tried the switch (and I do dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would occasionally blink off then back on. At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface. Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second. But its very worrisome. I'll be writing to Peter White, from whom I bought this. But I'm wondering if anyone here has had similar troubles with a B&M lamp, or if anyone wants to get a head start on speculating. (When my electronic poltergeist starts infecting my bike equipment, it's a bad, bad sign.) -- - Frank Krygowski I have LED spotlights in the bathroom, porch with a promised lifetime of 20000hr or something like that. That is utter BS because they will fail almost all well within that time. It is not the LED that fails but some of the electronic component on the (small) PCB that drives the LED. They fail in a manner you described. I think it is a heat issue. Lou All the new fangled bulbs claim to last years and years. I can tell you it is fake news. Deacon Mark Some do :-) We bought a new(to us) house about 3 years ago and I replaced all the interior lighting with the "new" LED (I suppose) lighting and to date 1 has failed, a circular overhead lamp, which I replaced about a year ago. -- Cheers, John B. |
Eyc headlight problem
On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 9:27:52 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 14:14:17 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary wrote: On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 12:50:33 PM UTC-5, wrote: Op zondag 28 maart 2021 om 17:40:15 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski: On last night's ride I took the touring bike with its B&M Eyc headlight powered by an old Union bottle dynamo. (Usually I take a bike with a hub dyno.) The Lumotec Eyc is about 2/3 down this page: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.php My friend who rides with me often leaves his headlight off to save his battery, since we can see so well by mine. But not last night. Right at the start, my headlight turned itself off. I tried the switch (and I do dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would occasionally blink off then back on. At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface. Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second. But its very worrisome. I'll be writing to Peter White, from whom I bought this. But I'm wondering if anyone here has had similar troubles with a B&M lamp, or if anyone wants to get a head start on speculating. (When my electronic poltergeist starts infecting my bike equipment, it's a bad, bad sign.) -- - Frank Krygowski I have LED spotlights in the bathroom, porch with a promised lifetime of 20000hr or something like that. That is utter BS because they will fail almost all well within that time. It is not the LED that fails but some of the electronic component on the (small) PCB that drives the LED. They fail in a manner you described. I think it is a heat issue. Lou All the new fangled bulbs claim to last years and years. I can tell you it is fake news. Deacon Mark Some do :-) We bought a new(to us) house about 3 years ago and I replaced all the interior lighting with the "new" LED (I suppose) lighting and to date 1 has failed, a circular overhead lamp, which I replaced about a year ago. The first compact fluorescent light bulb I bought promised something like seven years life. It lasted only about three years, IIRC. But I had saved the packaging and receipt. I took it back to Lowe's and they replaced it with out a question, even though they no longer carried the brand. After that, I began marking the base of each such bulb with the date of its installation. I now have dozens of CFLs or, more recently, LEDs throughout the house. A very few have failed early. Almost all have been completely satisfactory. However, as I've described here in the past, I had an off-brand LED dynamo light fail. The LED itself went bad. I actually managed (with difficulty) to solder a similar LED in its place, but the resultant optics were not quite as good. But that headlamp is still in use on our tandem, which we only rarely ride at night. That was an Avenir headlight, no longer offered. It was the one that had super-simple electronics, just a full wave rectifier, a voltage regulator and a few ancillary bits. (It has to be simple if an ME like me can identify the parts.) An inexpensive B&M Lyt that I opened had a lot more tiny bits. All of which makes me pessimistic about repairing this B&M Eyc. :-( - Frank Krygowski |
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