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[email protected] September 4th 17 09:00 PM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
Yesterday I went on a long enough ride and the weather report turned out to be incorrect enough that I was close to heat prostration near the end.

I hit a stone in the road that was invisible and it gave me a flat. As I was trying to figure out how to make the particular CO2 filler in that seat pack to work I punctured the canister and lost one of my two CO2 tubes.

Opening the front tire to remove the inner tube and replace it with the new tube a black guy who looked nearly homeless came by and said that he had a patch kit if I needed it. I thanked him but without a pump I couldn't find any leaks to patch.

When the front tube came out it was a Performance butyl tube. They were available in a 30, a 40 and a 60 mm stem length. I have bought the latex tubes because they were available in 51 mm stems. The back (which was losing air about the same as the front) is latex.

So my tires not losing air plainly isn't because of the material of the tubes.

My suspicion is the pump meter. I bought a new Silca professional pump from Andrew and it has a new (and probably much better) pressure gauge on it. This allows me to fill the tire up properly and to test the pressure more accurately than most pumps.

So it probably is pump and not inner tube material related.

Now don't say I lacked the courage to publicly correct myself when I think I was wrong. How many of you can say the same thing - John and Frank?

Joerg[_2_] September 4th 17 09:17 PM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On 2017-09-04 13:00, wrote:
Yesterday I went on a long enough ride and the weather report turned
out to be incorrect enough that I was close to heat prostration near
the end.


I went up the MTB trail towards Placerville. Gulped down the contents of
all three 28oz water bottles which kept me humming. However, the air was
so bad from nearby wildfires that if wasn't super fun. To relax we hung
out at a horse ranch.


I hit a stone in the road that was invisible and it gave me a flat.



Should have used thick thorn-resistant tubes.


As I was trying to figure out how to make the particular CO2 filler
in that seat pack to work I punctured the canister and lost one of my
two CO2 tubes.

Opening the front tire to remove the inner tube and replace it with
the new tube a black guy who looked nearly homeless came by and said
that he had a patch kit if I needed it. I thanked him but without a
pump I couldn't find any leaks to patch.

When the front tube came out it was a Performance butyl tube. They
were available in a 30, a 40 and a 60 mm stem length. I have bought
the latex tubes because they were available in 51 mm stems. The back
(which was losing air about the same as the front) is latex.

So my tires not losing air plainly isn't because of the material of
the tubes.

My suspicion is the pump meter. I bought a new Silca professional
pump from Andrew and it has a new (and probably much better) pressure
gauge on it. This allows me to fill the tire up properly and to test
the pressure more accurately than most pumps.

So it probably is pump and not inner tube material related.


How can a "professional" pump be so wrong? I bought a $20 Zefal floor
pump for $20 at Walmart and its gauge tracked a commercial grade
pressure gauge in my lab very well.


Now don't say I lacked the courage to publicly correct myself when I
think I was wrong. How many of you can say the same thing - John and
Frank?


My wife would do that for me if I didn't :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[email protected] September 4th 17 10:01 PM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 1:17:23 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-04 13:00, wrote:
Yesterday I went on a long enough ride and the weather report turned
out to be incorrect enough that I was close to heat prostration near
the end.


I went up the MTB trail towards Placerville. Gulped down the contents of
all three 28oz water bottles which kept me humming. However, the air was
so bad from nearby wildfires that if wasn't super fun. To relax we hung
out at a horse ranch.


I hit a stone in the road that was invisible and it gave me a flat.



Should have used thick thorn-resistant tubes.


Wouldn't have helped. There was a rock shard driven threw the gatorskin at it's toughest spot.

How can a "professional" pump be so wrong? I bought a $20 Zefal floor
pump for $20 at Walmart and its gauge tracked a commercial grade
pressure gauge in my lab very well.


The professional is the one that's accurate and the cheaper one that was both showing the wrong pressure and probably letting pressure bleed off through the cheaper filler nozzle.

Now don't say I lacked the courage to publicly correct myself when I
think I was wrong. How many of you can say the same thing - John and
Frank?


My wife would do that for me if I didn't :-)


Tell me about it.


Joerg[_2_] September 4th 17 10:07 PM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On 2017-09-04 14:01, wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 1:17:23 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-04 13:00,
wrote:
Yesterday I went on a long enough ride and the weather report
turned out to be incorrect enough that I was close to heat
prostration near the end.


I went up the MTB trail towards Placerville. Gulped down the
contents of all three 28oz water bottles which kept me humming.
However, the air was so bad from nearby wildfires that if wasn't
super fun. To relax we hung out at a horse ranch.


I hit a stone in the road that was invisible and it gave me a
flat.



Should have used thick thorn-resistant tubes.


Wouldn't have helped. There was a rock shard driven threw the
gatorskin at it's toughest spot.


Through the running surface of a Gatorskin? That must have been a rock
from hell.

Sidewall, different thing. Gatorskins are totally flimsy there which is
one reason why I abandoned them.


How can a "professional" pump be so wrong? I bought a $20 Zefal
floor pump for $20 at Walmart and its gauge tracked a commercial
grade pressure gauge in my lab very well.


The professional is the one that's accurate and the cheaper one that
was both showing the wrong pressure and probably letting pressure
bleed off through the cheaper filler nozzle.


I'd have returned it to the store. A pump is supposed to show steady
pressure when you stop pumping and not leak.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

John B.[_3_] September 5th 17 03:32 AM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 13:00:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yesterday I went on a long enough ride and the weather report turned out to be incorrect enough that I was close to heat prostration near the end.

I hit a stone in the road that was invisible and it gave me a flat. As I was trying to figure out how to make the particular CO2 filler in that seat pack to work I punctured the canister and lost one of my two CO2 tubes.

Opening the front tire to remove the inner tube and replace it with the new tube a black guy who looked nearly homeless came by and said that he had a patch kit if I needed it. I thanked him but without a pump I couldn't find any leaks to patch.

When the front tube came out it was a Performance butyl tube. They were available in a 30, a 40 and a 60 mm stem length. I have bought the latex tubes because they were available in 51 mm stems. The back (which was losing air about the same as the front) is latex.

So my tires not losing air plainly isn't because of the material of the tubes.

My suspicion is the pump meter. I bought a new Silca professional pump from Andrew and it has a new (and probably much better) pressure gauge on it. This allows me to fill the tire up properly and to test the pressure more accurately than most pumps.

So it probably is pump and not inner tube material related.

Now don't say I lacked the courage to publicly correct myself when I think I was wrong. How many of you can say the same thing - John and Frank?



Actually I don't remember ever saying that you failed to correct
yourself. If memory serves what I've said was that "you are wrong".
--
Cheers,

John B.


Jeff Liebermann September 5th 17 05:25 AM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The professional is the one that's accurate and the cheaper one that was both showing the wrong pressure and probably letting pressure bleed off through the cheaper filler nozzle.


Here's my bicycle pump tester:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/slides/Bicycle%20pump%20pressure%20gauge.html
I scribbled a little about how it's used in a previous postings:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/YsqvNggfDDM/CoySfXtGAQAJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/YsqvNggfDDM/XeXJLe5kAQAJ

For a leakdown test, I attach a small pressure vessel to one port, and
pump up the pressure with a bicycle pump attached to the other port.
Then, I watch the pump gauge to see if it remains stable. If the test
gauge leaks, I paint the plumbing with bubble mix looking for the
source of the air leaks. If the gauge itself is suspect, I take it
apart and check the mechanism for leaks.


--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[email protected] September 5th 17 03:04 PM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 9:25:51 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The professional is the one that's accurate and the cheaper one that was both showing the wrong pressure and probably letting pressure bleed off through the cheaper filler nozzle.


Here's my bicycle pump tester:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/slides/Bicycle%20pump%20pressure%20gauge.html
I scribbled a little about how it's used in a previous postings:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/YsqvNggfDDM/CoySfXtGAQAJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/YsqvNggfDDM/XeXJLe5kAQAJ

For a leakdown test, I attach a small pressure vessel to one port, and
pump up the pressure with a bicycle pump attached to the other port.
Then, I watch the pump gauge to see if it remains stable. If the test
gauge leaks, I paint the plumbing with bubble mix looking for the
source of the air leaks. If the gauge itself is suspect, I take it
apart and check the mechanism for leaks.


Well, that certainly seems a better method than getting a good pump to begin with.

[email protected] September 5th 17 03:04 PM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 7:32:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 13:00:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yesterday I went on a long enough ride and the weather report turned out to be incorrect enough that I was close to heat prostration near the end.

I hit a stone in the road that was invisible and it gave me a flat. As I was trying to figure out how to make the particular CO2 filler in that seat pack to work I punctured the canister and lost one of my two CO2 tubes.

Opening the front tire to remove the inner tube and replace it with the new tube a black guy who looked nearly homeless came by and said that he had a patch kit if I needed it. I thanked him but without a pump I couldn't find any leaks to patch.

When the front tube came out it was a Performance butyl tube. They were available in a 30, a 40 and a 60 mm stem length. I have bought the latex tubes because they were available in 51 mm stems. The back (which was losing air about the same as the front) is latex.

So my tires not losing air plainly isn't because of the material of the tubes.

My suspicion is the pump meter. I bought a new Silca professional pump from Andrew and it has a new (and probably much better) pressure gauge on it.. This allows me to fill the tire up properly and to test the pressure more accurately than most pumps.

So it probably is pump and not inner tube material related.

Now don't say I lacked the courage to publicly correct myself when I think I was wrong. How many of you can say the same thing - John and Frank?



Actually I don't remember ever saying that you failed to correct
yourself. If memory serves what I've said was that "you are wrong".


And as usual you didn't know what you were talking about.

Frank Krygowski[_4_] September 5th 17 04:43 PM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On 9/4/2017 4:00 PM, wrote:

[I responded to this earlier, and it shows up in my "Sent" folder, but
never made it to the group. I don't know why. Maybe it had something
to do with my internet speed test showing approximately zero for upload
speed? Thanks, AT&T.]


Now don't say I lacked the courage to publicly correct myself when I think I was wrong. How many of you can say the same thing - John and Frank?



I've done that several times.

Oddly enough, I did it once in error. There was a long flame-fest
including an alias-using individual of renowned obnoxiousness. (He
stopped posting here years ago.) Part of it referred to a bike-related
technical equation in a website run by a pretty well known bike tech guy.

Anyway, after considerable debate, I accepted Mr. Obnoxious's claim that
the equation was in error. I said here that he was right and I (and the
equation) was wrong. Mr. Obnoxious was so surprised he promised to stop
online abuse - a promise he quickly broke.

Then I emailed the website guy, whom I've corresponded with and met a
couple times. He pointed out that no, his equation was correct and
showed why. So Mr. Obnoxious was wrong indeed. (I think the issue was
Mr. O changed the point of contention from force to stress, and it
slipped by me.)

Anyway, I had apologized here, but my apology was in error. Given the
climate of the online discussion, I decided to just let it go.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[email protected] September 5th 17 05:44 PM

Let the Laughing Begin
 
On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 8:43:40 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/4/2017 4:00 PM, wrote:

[I responded to this earlier, and it shows up in my "Sent" folder, but
never made it to the group. I don't know why. Maybe it had something
to do with my internet speed test showing approximately zero for upload
speed? Thanks, AT&T.]


Now don't say I lacked the courage to publicly correct myself when I think I was wrong. How many of you can say the same thing - John and Frank?



I've done that several times.

Oddly enough, I did it once in error. There was a long flame-fest
including an alias-using individual of renowned obnoxiousness. (He
stopped posting here years ago.) Part of it referred to a bike-related
technical equation in a website run by a pretty well known bike tech guy.

Anyway, after considerable debate, I accepted Mr. Obnoxious's claim that
the equation was in error. I said here that he was right and I (and the
equation) was wrong. Mr. Obnoxious was so surprised he promised to stop
online abuse - a promise he quickly broke.

Then I emailed the website guy, whom I've corresponded with and met a
couple times. He pointed out that no, his equation was correct and
showed why. So Mr. Obnoxious was wrong indeed. (I think the issue was
Mr. O changed the point of contention from force to stress, and it
slipped by me.)

Anyway, I had apologized here, but my apology was in error. Given the
climate of the online discussion, I decided to just let it go.


While repairing the flat I got the other day, it turned out that the second tube had two small holes. I can't tell what caused this. It was like a wire flat but it was across the contact surface of the tire.

So it too two patches to repair. The original tube had a very large pinch flat from hitting that rock on the road for it was a throw-away.

The inner tube in the box wouldn't fit in my seat pack so I opened it and it was a butyl tube as well. Looking at the site where I bought it these were the cheapest inner tubes there.

But I distinctly remember ordering the latex tubes because at the time they were the only tubes with 51 mm stems. These have 51 mm stems even though they're butyl.

So looking through my pile of spares they are all butyl and there are no latex tubes at all. That means that my back tire with the 51 mm stem sticking out of it is no doubt butyl as well.

I can only imagine that they had a mistake on the website that has since been corrected.

This again hardens my suspicion that the pressure changes in my tires before my new pump had to do with the cheap floor pumps inaccurate pressure gauges and the leakage around that "easy operation" connector with the throw handle.


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