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Recovery and Diet
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets.
As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. |
Recovery and Diet
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou |
400W (was: Recovery and Diet)
Lou wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance [[...]] Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. That depends on the weight of the person... at 100kg, that's 4W/kg and hence achievable by a trained cyclist over that distance. at 60kg, that's 6.6W/kg which is "pro level" (wrt weight and power) -- Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers. |
400W (was: Recovery and Diet)
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 2:28:36 AM UTC+2, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Lou wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance [[...]] Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. That depends on the weight of the person... at 100kg, that's 4W/kg and hence achievable by a trained cyclist over that distance. at 60kg, that's 6.6W/kg which is "pro level" (wrt weight and power) True if 100 kg is not the result of overweight. In practice I see never people (mortals like you and me) in the Strava segments top ranking with listed powers (they use a power meter) exceeding 350 Watts. See ranking of the Passo Pordoi for instance. First is Vicenzo Nibali. We don't count him but in the top 20 no one exceeded 350 Watts in their effort and you can count on it that the top 20 people are top cyclists. IIRC Tom is a slightly overweight 75 year old. So if he manage 400 Watts over 16 km that is a world class achievement. Hat off. Lou |
Recovery and Diet
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. I have the KOM on the segment of my driveway between the street and my garage. Yesterday, I came in second on a brutal climb. I was riding with two other guys and was happy to beat the third guy since I'm still recovering from my crash -- and rode too much the day before. The third guy has been focusing on random weight gain, doing beer repeats. He'll trim down in time for cyclocross season -- maybe. It was a spectacularly beautiful day, marred only by the Bridge Pedal -- a few bazillion cyclists clogging up traffic. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug We headed south along with everyone else.. Speaking of CX, the local teams were out training -- doing hill repeats up the cemetery and other feats of athleticism. Like I've said, riding on a team during the CX season is the equivalent of being on a bowling team in the Mid West. Cross Crusade -- this is just the beginner woman's field. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug I kid you not. -- Jay Beattie. |
Recovery and Diet
On 12/08/2019 10:22 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. I have the KOM on the segment of my driveway between the street and my garage. Yesterday, I came in second on a brutal climb. I was riding with two other guys and was happy to beat the third guy since I'm still recovering from my crash -- and rode too much the day before. The third guy has been focusing on random weight gain, doing beer repeats. He'll trim down in time for cyclocross season -- maybe. It was a spectacularly beautiful day, marred only by the Bridge Pedal -- a few bazillion cyclists clogging up traffic. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug We headed south along with everyone else. Speaking of CX, the local teams were out training -- doing hill repeats up the cemetery and other feats of athleticism. Like I've said, riding on a team during the CX season is the equivalent of being on a bowling team in the Mid West. Cross Crusade -- this is just the beginner woman's field. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug I kid you not. -- Jay Beattie. Been windy here. Rode Friday, Saturday and Sunday ~80km each day with winds 30-40km. Mostly flattish Friday and Saturday. ~500 meters on Sunday. I found that a couple of cold lagers helped beautifully with the recoveries. 400w? I was lucky to get 150 yesterday. I think I need more recovery work. |
Recovery and Diet
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Lou |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:22:53 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
Cross Crusade -- this is just the beginner woman's field. https://tinyurl.com/y36z88ug I kid you not. -- Jay Beattie. I don't mean to sound snarky or rude, but that picture has a whole lot of men in it. And Santa Claus is down at the bottom of the picture talking to a little girl. Who definitely does NOT qualify as a woman. But maybe Oregon has a very different definition of "beginner woman's field". |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:22:53 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: Cross Crusade -- this is just the beginner woman's field. https://tinyurl..com/y36z88ug I kid you not. -- Jay Beattie. I don't mean to sound snarky or rude, but that picture has a whole lot of men in it. And Santa Claus is down at the bottom of the picture talking to a little girl. Who definitely does NOT qualify as a woman. But maybe Oregon has a very different definition of "beginner woman's field". Wrong link! https://www.cxmagazine.com/wp-conten...men-cc-pdx.jpg That's women. This is the beginner women: https://www.cxmagazine.com/wp-conten...-cc-women3.jpg That picture is from Alpenrose, my neighborhood dairy and velodrome: https://cni.pmgnews.com/images/artim...3582137737.jpg -- Jay Beattie. |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Lou Normally a Cat 3 rider exits turns and generates 1000 to 1200 watts for the couple of seconds to get back up to speed where they hold about 600 before letting off for the next turn. There are several video's on YouTube that have the power overlay on the screen with the race. In the last sprint 1,600 watts was shown. Until a couple of years ago the fast guys would be climbing an 8% grade at 8 mph and from 1/4 mile back I would shut them down and enter the rest area with them. Sometimes dropping them. And I'm a poor climber at 6'4" and 185 lbs. Though I could do the same thing when I was 210 and in my 50's. A year ago I tried the same thing and I came into the rest area slightly behind them. I turned around and was looking relaxed by the time they turned around and saw me. But that was all show since my heart rate must have been at 200. I'm taking this stuff that is supposed to naturally boost your EPO. I can't tell if it is working a little or I'm getting more rest. |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 2:06:51 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/12/2019 3:43 PM, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. For discussing cheap and overrated Chinese headlights, the term "chilumens" has become useful. You know - lumens that are somehow far less powerful than standard ones. Perhaps some people measure rider power output in KuniWatts? :-) -- - Frank Krygowski And perhaps some people don't mind being poo-poo heads as a career. Since you can't even ride 15 miles now perhaps you're not the one to be speaking of power. |
Recovery and Diet
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. There is a ketone diet which restricts your intake of carbohydrates and "teaches" your body to use fat instead of the much more limited carbohydrates. This is composed of a diet deficient in carbohydrates. And there is the actual using of Ketones as a diet itself when racing. This later is what the pro-peloton his having a bit of problems with. While it does give them upset stomachs (read diarrhea) and a taste that would make a spider gag, it still produces 1 to 2% faster recovery from efforts. |
Recovery and Diet
On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:07:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 2:06:51 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/12/2019 3:43 PM, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. For discussing cheap and overrated Chinese headlights, the term "chilumens" has become useful. You know - lumens that are somehow far less powerful than standard ones. Perhaps some people measure rider power output in KuniWatts? :-) -- - Frank Krygowski And perhaps some people don't mind being poo-poo heads as a career. Since you can't even ride 15 miles now perhaps you're not the one to be speaking of power. Can't even ride 15 miles.... But think of the poor 70 year old geezer, bald headed and bragging, about how he averaged 12 mph. For two whole hours, even! Now, that IS pitiful! -- cheers, John B. |
Recovery and Diet
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou That is faster than hell. Four years ago with a good tailwind I did 5 miles (8 Km) a little faster than that average and I had to come to a complete stop every 1/2 mile and wait for a stop light to change. Then accelerate up to top speed again trying to get to the next light before it turned red so that I would catch the synchronization. I never made it and I came in a couple of minutes after the group I was with who were on the other side of the lights and never had to stop. Though when I pulled into the parking lot of the Century I was so far gone I couldn't find the car because there was a police car pulled in front of the driveway into that particular parking lot and I didn't even realize it. I wondered around for five minutes before wandering back and the cop car being gone found the parking lot with the entire group waiting for me. And then having to hear about how slow I was. |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates.. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings. -- Jay Beattie. |
Recovery and Diet
Tom Kunich wrote:
10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance So you can _average_ 400 W for 16 kilometers ("10K") (i.e., for about 25 minutes)? How did you measure that power output? -- Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers. |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:27:49 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride.. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Does it come with a menu choice for power output? Horsepower, Watts or KuniWatts? ;-) - Frank Krygowski |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 5:46:51 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:27:49 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070.. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Does it come with a menu choice for power output? Horsepower, Watts or KuniWatts? ;-) They're beta testing the turbo function that grosses-up your power by 35% and posts it automatically to your Strava account. I was riding with Egan Bernal the other day on this climb, and he gapped me, but I kicked it the last quarter mile and dropped him. Then I woke up. -- Jay Beattie. |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 4:27:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride.. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings. -- Jay Beattie. You don't invest do you? If you did you'd have some idea of what the market is doing lately. If you believe that a power meter is good for anything other than a racer monitoring his power output in a race soas not to overwhelm himself at the wrong time then it is a good thing you are a lawyer. As an athlete you'd be a failure within minutes. |
Recovery and Diet
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 5:35:48 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote: 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance So you can _average_ 400 W for 16 kilometers ("10K") (i.e., for about 25 minutes)? How did you measure that power output? -- Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.. You measure that output by weight, approximated frontal area, wind speed and time for the distance. Power meters cannot give you a more accurate reading than that. In fact, the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, they also do not read accurately for actual power. They read via distortion of the cranks meaning that you have to have precise control of the metallurgy and perfect installation angle. For instance, last year I did 10K into a 20 mph wind in 21 minutes. The combined weight was 94 kg and the frontal area about .79 meters^2. The only real accurate power meters are rear hub mechanisms which can be fully machined so that every component is as accurate as possible. To underscore this - PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. It is not unusual for normal riders to put out a great deal of power for relatively short distances. Cat 2 and 1 racers put out phenomenal power in criteriums. There are several videos on YouTube that have both the bar camera and a power overlay that are shocking. 1200 watts out of every corner and 1600 watts in the final sprints. 600 watts between corners. The accelerations are what really burn up the power. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 8:54:04 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 4:27:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070.. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings. -- Jay Beattie. You don't invest do you? If you did you'd have some idea of what the market is doing lately. Let me check my investments. Hmmmm. I certainly made enough this month to buy a power meter, among other things. Not so good for you? Sorry your guy has thrown the equities market into spasms. Should have bought real estate. If you believe that a power meter is good for anything other than a racer monitoring his power output in a race soas not to overwhelm himself at the wrong time then it is a good thing you are a lawyer. As an athlete you'd be a failure within minutes. You natter on about your spectacular power output and then claim that an actual measuring device is only for racers. So for non-racers like you who are clearly interested in power, what is the option -- some faith-based measuring device? Astrology? Measuring power is more than just timing efforts. Many people train with power to improve fitness, ensure recovery, etc., etc. There are actually whole books about it! -- Jay Beattie. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 6:09:24 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 5:35:48 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance So you can _average_ 400 W for 16 kilometers ("10K") (i.e., for about 25 minutes)? How did you measure that power output? -- Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers. You measure that output by weight, approximated frontal area, wind speed and time for the distance. Power meters cannot give you a more accurate reading than that. In fact, the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, they also do not read accurately for actual power. They read via distortion of the cranks meaning that you have to have precise control of the metallurgy and perfect installation angle. They are all calibrated Tom. For instance, last year I did 10K into a 20 mph wind in 21 minutes. The combined weight was 94 kg and the frontal area about .79 meters^2. Almost 46 km/hr into a headwind of 32 km/hr for 16 km? Indeed you a Pro level material Tom at your age. Hat off. The only real accurate power meters are rear hub mechanisms which can be fully machined so that every component is as accurate as possible. Rear hub power meters don't take drive train losses into account. I put my money on well calibrated crank or pedal based power meters. Lou |
Recovery and Diet
Tom Kunich wrote:
the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear wheel...) PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for two hours. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:21:18 PM UTC-4, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote: the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear wheel...) PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for two hours. Tom is using K (1,000) instead of km (1) by mistake. Cheers |
Recovery and Diet
On 2019-08-12 15:58, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. For me that would be a nice pint of Belgian Tripel 8-) The pros seem to agree: http://inrng.com/medias/img/amstelpodium2013.jpg111 Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou That is faster than hell. It is. Once I rode with a client/friend. He kept it around 25mph or 40km/h all the time. After about 25mins of this I had enough. My tongue was on the handlebar and my heart was racing. I told him I'd continue on my own and then put-putted home. Four years ago with a good tailwind I did 5 miles (8 Km) a little faster than that average and I had to come to a complete stop every 1/2 mile and wait for a stop light to change. Then accelerate up to top speed again trying to get to the next light before it turned red so that I would catch the synchronization. I never made it and I came in a couple of minutes after the group I was with who were on the other side of the lights and never had to stop. Though when I pulled into the parking lot of the Century I was so far gone I couldn't find the car because there was a police car pulled in front of the driveway into that particular parking lot and I didn't even realize it. I wondered around for five minutes before wandering back and the cop car being gone found the parking lot with the entire group waiting for me. And then having to hear about how slow I was. My cop car (in Germany) pulled up behind me and he commanded me to pull over, via speaker, loudly and with a drill sergeant's growl. The cop gave me a speeding ticket, on a bicycle! Turned out I had gone too far above in a 30km/h zone. The fact that my bike didn't have a speedometer and that I was a Dutch resident did not get me out of a ticket. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 9:46:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 8:54:04 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 4:27:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings. -- Jay Beattie. You don't invest do you? If you did you'd have some idea of what the market is doing lately. Let me check my investments. Hmmmm. I certainly made enough this month to buy a power meter, among other things. Not so good for you? Sorry your guy has thrown the equities market into spasms. Should have bought real estate. If you believe that a power meter is good for anything other than a racer monitoring his power output in a race soas not to overwhelm himself at the wrong time then it is a good thing you are a lawyer. As an athlete you'd be a failure within minutes. You natter on about your spectacular power output and then claim that an actual measuring device is only for racers. So for non-racers like you who are clearly interested in power, what is the option -- some faith-based measuring device? Astrology? Measuring power is more than just timing efforts.. Many people train with power to improve fitness, ensure recovery, etc., etc. There are actually whole books about it! -- Jay Beattie. Jay, unlike you I don't need to check my investments. I get a report every month and through that horrible month last month I still made enough to buy all the power meters I wanted if I ever wanted one. Despite changing from one investment firm to another in the last two months at Merrill Lynch I've made 8%. Now I auppoaw you're going to tell me you made more. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 11:21:18 AM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote: the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear wheel...) PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for two hours. Tell us about Matteo Trintin in this year's Tour. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 9:55:44 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 6:09:24 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 5:35:48 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance So you can _average_ 400 W for 16 kilometers ("10K") (i.e., for about 25 minutes)? How did you measure that power output? -- Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers. You measure that output by weight, approximated frontal area, wind speed and time for the distance. Power meters cannot give you a more accurate reading than that. In fact, the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, they also do not read accurately for actual power. They read via distortion of the cranks meaning that you have to have precise control of the metallurgy and perfect installation angle. They are all calibrated Tom. For instance, last year I did 10K into a 20 mph wind in 21 minutes. The combined weight was 94 kg and the frontal area about .79 meters^2. Almost 46 km/hr into a headwind of 32 km/hr for 16 km? Indeed you a Pro level material Tom at your age. Hat off. The only real accurate power meters are rear hub mechanisms which can be fully machined so that every component is as accurate as possible. Rear hub power meters don't take drive train losses into account. I put my money on well calibrated crank or pedal based power meters. Lou For three of those miles I was not directly into the wind but quartering into it. And this is a top line performance. I only do something like that very rarely and not every ride like pros do. This is the difference between a Cat 1,2 or 3 and a pro. Anyone that rides enough can have a good ride. It is having a good ride ALWAYS that sets the pros apart from the amateurs. |
Recovery and Diet
Claus, I wonder if you realize just how damn good a domestique is. This was the difference between Allaphillip winning the Tour and ending up fifth. Most of those domestiques in the pro peloton can ride at 400 watts for hours at a stretch. Even higher. Why do you suppose near the end of a stage they drop off and then drag in with the lantern rouge? I was in my early 70's when I did that and I think you're suggesting that a 26 year old with flawless training schedules and perfect diet and monitored every day by an MD couldn't do 10 times what I could.
OK, I just did the calculations for what the peloton did for several hours - 45 kph - 28 mph. While the top teams are on the front reducing the loading on the rest of the peloton they went about 28 mph for two hours on several occasions on the flats. That means that the lead rider is making about 426 watts and there is a rotation of only 8 riders so you don't have that much time off of the front. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:46:39 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 8:54:04 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 4:27:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings. -- Jay Beattie. You don't invest do you? If you did you'd have some idea of what the market is doing lately. Let me check my investments. Hmmmm. I certainly made enough this month to buy a power meter, among other things. Not so good for you? Sorry your guy has thrown the equities market into spasms. Should have bought real estate. If you believe that a power meter is good for anything other than a racer monitoring his power output in a race soas not to overwhelm himself at the wrong time then it is a good thing you are a lawyer. As an athlete you'd be a failure within minutes. You natter on about your spectacular power output and then claim that an actual measuring device is only for racers. So for non-racers like you who are clearly interested in power, what is the option -- some faith-based measuring device? Astrology? Measuring power is more than just timing efforts. Many people train with power to improve fitness, ensure recovery, etc., etc. There are actually whole books about it! -- Jay Beattie. You quite obviously don't understand. A power meter is a vital accessory for the elderly bicycle enthusiast as how else can he brag about his accomplishments - "I averaged 12 mph for two hours last Sunday". -- cheers, John B. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 1:14:58 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:21:18 PM UTC-4, Claus Aßmann wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear wheel...) PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for two hours. Tom is using K (1,000) instead of km (1) by mistake. Cheers You and Frank have a lot in common. The last time you rode was down to the store and back. For another pack of cigarettes. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 9:46:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 8:54:04 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 4:27:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 3:05:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 1:04:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:43:05 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 8:41:28 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:46:55 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 10:00:57 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: Personal experience and Global Cycling News programming often disagree as they have speaking about Ketone diets. As it turns out, a weight loss diet and their idea of a Ketone dirt are more or less the same thing. Protein and Fats and no carbohydrates. Since my wife has been trying to lose weight (and has been successful) I've ended up eating GCN's sort of Ketone Diet. It hasn't have any positive effect on my performance and I can tell you that. Yet when I stop on a ride and have a coffee and a sugar roll, I get not only a boost in performance but I feel a lot better after the ride without the need to fall asleep in the lounge chair before I can even put the bike away. Now what this is telling me is that if you are on the Ketone Diet your (or perhaps only my) liver simply cannot metabolize fat fast enough to maintain a performance level, but the speed with which I can metabolize carbohydrates is enough to hold my performance levels (which, granted are only around 200 Watts on a good day) for my normal rides of around 40-60 miles with a lot of climbing. Now if we are talking a scant 10K I have generated as much as 400 watts over that distance a couple of times this year. Even in the Pro peloton the effect of ketons is questioned. Best and cheapest recovery drink is 0.5 liter of low fat choco drink: 2 third carbs and 1 third protein. Again Tom 400 W is Pro level, even for 10 k miles. I set a new personal record yesterday for a Strava segment here in my neighborhood. Flat, no stop signs, almost no traffic and a moderate tailwind: 5.53 km in 7min 23 sec; average speed 45 km/hr. Average power of 259 Watt, measured with a power meter. Average heartbeat of 167 bpm. Overall place 44 out of 4070. First place out of 207 in this years classification in my age category: 55-64 yr. I am 62 y old. So I'm above average and nowhere near 400 W for a shorter distance. Again 400 Watt is Pro level. Lou I have the idea that you don't climb Lou. You absolutely must generate a lot of power to climb and the 12 or more percentage grades can take power in the 400 to 600 category just to crest. Well I certainly don't climb as much as I would like but I have my moments and I have those moments for 30 years now: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3820852059 That aside grade has little to do with power. You only need the proper gearing. I can haul 85 kg 850 meter up in an hour. The average power needed for that is (mass*gravitational acceleration*elevation gain)/time in sec = (85*9.81*850)/3600 Nm/sec (= Watt) = 197 Watt. I can use the same available power to go fast against a headwind. There is nothing special about climbing when we talk about power needed. Accelerating after a corner or sprinting over a highway overpass you can easily exceed 600 Watt, but only for a short time. 400 Watt average over a distance of 16 km is a hard to believe value. Try a proper power meter and look at the data during a ride. Stages. Its the best. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ -- Jay Beattie. Just out of curiosity what do you need that for? My brother has one and while he has high average speeds the power output doesn't seem particularly impressive. Racers use it in a race so that they don't go too hard too early - are you racing? No, I'm trying to support my son's employer. Training with power is SOP for racers and sport riders these days. I'm not into data, because its mostly depressing, but some people love it -- like most of my friends. And god bless them for supporting Stages. If it's good enough for Sky/Ineos, its good enough for you! https://www.teamineos.com/sponsors/stages Offices in Portland Ory-gun. You need one because you quote all these whacky power figures calculated from god-knows-what. Get a real power meter with your savvy investment earnings. -- Jay Beattie. You don't invest do you? If you did you'd have some idea of what the market is doing lately. Let me check my investments. Hmmmm. I certainly made enough this month to buy a power meter, among other things. Not so good for you? Sorry your guy has thrown the equities market into spasms. Should have bought real estate. If you believe that a power meter is good for anything other than a racer monitoring his power output in a race soas not to overwhelm himself at the wrong time then it is a good thing you are a lawyer. As an athlete you'd be a failure within minutes. You natter on about your spectacular power output and then claim that an actual measuring device is only for racers. So for non-racers like you who are clearly interested in power, what is the option -- some faith-based measuring device? Astrology? Measuring power is more than just timing efforts. Many people train with power to improve fitness, ensure recovery, etc., etc. There are actually whole books about it! -- Jay Beattie. Jay, unlike you I don't need to check my investments. I get a report every month and through that horrible month last month I still made enough to buy all the power meters I wanted if I ever wanted one. Despite changing from one investment firm to another in the last two months at Merrill Lynch I've made 8%. Now I auppoaw you're going to tell me you made more. Absolutely. The amount I made last month is crazy. I'm going to buy a two-sided Stages power meter and Jeff Epstein's Carribbean Island, and I'll still have enough left over for a G-II. -- Jay Beattie. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 6:35:56 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 1:14:58 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:21:18 PM UTC-4, Claus Aßmann wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear wheel...) PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for two hours. Tom is using K (1,000) instead of km (1) by mistake. Cheers You and Frank have a lot in common. The last time you rode was down to the store and back. For another pack of cigarettes. I've refrained from replying to many of your rantings but... You are absolutely hilarious with your misconceptions, your errors and your plain lack of knowledge in so many topics you post about. For your information, not that I need to provide, I've never smoked a cigarette or tried smoking one in my entire life. You sir, are completely delusional. Cheers |
Recovery and Diet
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 1:14:58 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:21:18 PM UTC-4, Claus Aßmann wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear wheel...) PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for two hours. Tom is using K (1,000) instead of km (1) by mistake. Cheers You and Frank have a lot in common. The last time you rode was down to the store and back. For another pack of cigarettes. Actually "K", pr "kay" seemed to enter the USian vocabulary about the time of the Vietnam war when unschooled U.S. Servicemen started using the term to indicate both speed and distance. "Hot Damn! The Cyclo broke and we had to walk 10 K", or "Hot Damn! we were doing almost 10 K in that Cyclo". -- cheers, John B. |
Recovery and Diet
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 16:52:48 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 6:35:56 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 1:14:58 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:21:18 PM UTC-4, Claus Aßmann wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear wheel...) PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for two hours. Tom is using K (1,000) instead of km (1) by mistake. Cheers You and Frank have a lot in common. The last time you rode was down to the store and back. For another pack of cigarettes. I've refrained from replying to many of your rantings but... You are absolutely hilarious with your misconceptions, your errors and your plain lack of knowledge in so many topics you post about. For your information, not that I need to provide, I've never smoked a cigarette or tried smoking one in my entire life. You sir, are completely delusional. Cheers But Sir! it is so difficult to insult someone if one is restricted to telling the truth. -- cheers, John B. |
Recovery and Diet
John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 16:52:48 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 6:35:56 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 1:14:58 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:21:18 PM UTC-4, Claus Aßmann wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: the most common power meters are built-in to cranks. Aside from the fact that most only read directly from half a crank, As long as the power meter isn't only in a single crank _arm_, it measure the total outout (check how the power goes to the rear wheel...) PROS do not produce this level of power for 10K - they can do it for 100K. Please tell us which "PROS" can generate 400W for 100K. (BTW: are you talking about km (kilo meters, metric) or something else when you write "K"?) You might want to look at the power output for the hour record -- obviously that kind of power can NOT be achieved for two hours. Tom is using K (1,000) instead of km (1) by mistake. Cheers You and Frank have a lot in common. The last time you rode was down to the store and back. For another pack of cigarettes. I've refrained from replying to many of your rantings but... You are absolutely hilarious with your misconceptions, your errors and your plain lack of knowledge in so many topics you post about. For your information, not that I need to provide, I've never smoked a cigarette or tried smoking one in my entire life. You sir, are completely delusional. Cheers But Sir! it is so difficult to insult someone if one is restricted to telling the truth. -- cheers, John B. Not always. -- duane |
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