28 mph e-bikes
 

To me, this seems nuts - 28 miles per hour on park paths?

https://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-c...142615810.html

It's been pointed out that until now, if you could ride 28 mph, you had probably
spent lots of time riding a bike. By trial and error, if nothing else, you knew
a bit about handling the bike at speed.

Now we can get prosperous newbies who can barely balance blasting along at high
speed past hikers and horses. Crazy.

- Frank Krygowski

28 mph e-bikes
 

Frank Krygowski wrote:
To me, this seems nuts - 28 miles per hour on park paths?

(Yahoo site won't work without cookies, so IFTFY:)
https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2019-08-30/national-parks-electric-bikes


It's been pointed out that until now, if you could ride 28 mph, you had probably
spent lots of time riding a bike. By trial and error, if nothing else, you knew
a bit about handling the bike at speed.

Now we can get prosperous newbies who can barely balance blasting along at high
speed past hikers and horses. Crazy.

In areas of the European Alps, local bike shops have largely turned into
e-bike (nominally, pedelec) rental stations. Mountain rescue services are
experiencing a new challenge: Flocks of stupid, weak and inexperienced
tourists thought they were fine while e-climbing uphill into remote areas,
as far as the battery charge would carry them, but don't have the riding
skills to make it down again. They need transportation downhill, as do
their beloved, 50-lbs. bikes.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41R2z7FK97L.jpg
SCNR.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 5:33:17 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
To me, this seems nuts - 28 miles per hour on park paths?

https://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-c...142615810.html

It's been pointed out that until now, if you could ride 28 mph, you had probably
spent lots of time riding a bike. By trial and error, if nothing else, you knew
a bit about handling the bike at speed.

Now we can get prosperous newbies who can barely balance blasting along at high
speed past hikers and horses. Crazy.

- Frank Krygowski

For those kind of bikes here wearing a helmet is mandatory, you have to have some kind of driver licence and they are not allowed on the bike paths in some areas. I don't see a lot of them in contrast with the normal Ebikes which have taken over normal bikes for people not into sportive cycling.

Lou

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 11:33:17 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
To me, this seems nuts - 28 miles per hour on park paths?

https://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-c...142615810.html

It's been pointed out that until now, if you could ride 28 mph, you had probably
spent lots of time riding a bike. By trial and error, if nothing else, you knew
a bit about handling the bike at speed.

Now we can get prosperous newbies who can barely balance blasting along at high
speed past hikers and horses. Crazy.

- Frank Krygowski

28 mph e-bikes mixing with pedal bikes on bike trails and urban bike lanes is bad policy. The frequency of conflicts between fast and slow moving users depends on the number of users, the width of the facility and the relative speed difference between users. There are already dangerous conditions between cyclists and pedestrians on 3 heavily used bridge MUP's in NYC: Brooklyn; Queensboro; and George Washington. Adding legally sanctioned e bikes going at twice the bicycle speed to this mix would be catastrophic. I'd suggest that e bike speeds be limited to 15 mph, when using pedistrian/pedal cycle MUP's.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Saturday, 31 August 2019 08:51:55 UTC-4, Stephen Bauman wrote:
On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 11:33:17 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
To me, this seems nuts - 28 miles per hour on park paths?

https://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-c...142615810.html

It's been pointed out that until now, if you could ride 28 mph, you had probably
spent lots of time riding a bike. By trial and error, if nothing else, you knew
a bit about handling the bike at speed.

Now we can get prosperous newbies who can barely balance blasting along at high
speed past hikers and horses. Crazy.

- Frank Krygowski

28 mph e-bikes mixing with pedal bikes on bike trails and urban bike lanes is bad policy. The frequency of conflicts between fast and slow moving users depends on the number of users, the width of the facility and the relative speed difference between users. There are already dangerous conditions between cyclists and pedestrians on 3 heavily used bridge MUP's in NYC: Brooklyn; Queensboro; and George Washington. Adding legally sanctioned e bikes going at twice the bicycle speed to this mix would be catastrophic. I'd suggest that e bike speeds be limited to 15 mph, when using pedistrian/pedal cycle MUP's.

They should be banned from MUPs entirely! My experiences seem to show that the riders of those bikes won't slow down for others and the sight-lines on many MUPs are terrible. Ebikes and MUPs are accidents waiting to happen.

Cheers

28 mph e-bikes
 

Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Saturday, 31 August 2019 08:51:55 UTC-4, Stephen Bauman wrote:
On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 11:33:17 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
To me, this seems nuts - 28 miles per hour on park paths?

https://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-c...142615810.html

It's been pointed out that until now, if you could ride 28 mph, you had probably
spent lots of time riding a bike. By trial and error, if nothing else, you knew
a bit about handling the bike at speed.

Now we can get prosperous newbies who can barely balance blasting along at high
speed past hikers and horses. Crazy.

- Frank Krygowski

28 mph e-bikes mixing with pedal bikes on bike trails and urban bike
lanes is bad policy. The frequency of conflicts between fast and
slow moving users depends on the number of users, the width of the
facility and the relative speed difference between users. There are
already dangerous conditions between cyclists and pedestrians on 3
heavily used bridge MUP's in NYC: Brooklyn; Queensboro; and George
Washington. Adding legally sanctioned e bikes going at twice the
bicycle speed to this mix would be catastrophic. I'd suggest that e
bike speeds be limited to 15 mph, when using pedistrian/pedal cycle
MUP's.

They should be banned from MUPs entirely! My experiences seem to show
that the riders of those bikes won't slow down for others and the
sight-lines on many MUPs are terrible. Ebikes and MUPs are accidents
waiting to happen.

So it is in Massachusetts. Not that I'm suggesting that state be
nominated bellwether.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 23:15:29 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Saturday, 31 August 2019 08:51:55 UTC-4, Stephen Bauman wrote:
On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 11:33:17 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
To me, this seems nuts - 28 miles per hour on park paths?

https://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-c...142615810.html

It's been pointed out that until now, if you could ride 28 mph, you had probably
spent lots of time riding a bike. By trial and error, if nothing else, you knew
a bit about handling the bike at speed.

Now we can get prosperous newbies who can barely balance blasting along at high
speed past hikers and horses. Crazy.

- Frank Krygowski

28 mph e-bikes mixing with pedal bikes on bike trails and urban bike
lanes is bad policy. The frequency of conflicts between fast and
slow moving users depends on the number of users, the width of the
facility and the relative speed difference between users. There are
already dangerous conditions between cyclists and pedestrians on 3
heavily used bridge MUP's in NYC: Brooklyn; Queensboro; and George
Washington. Adding legally sanctioned e bikes going at twice the
bicycle speed to this mix would be catastrophic. I'd suggest that e
bike speeds be limited to 15 mph, when using pedistrian/pedal cycle
MUP's.

They should be banned from MUPs entirely! My experiences seem to show
that the riders of those bikes won't slow down for others and the
sight-lines on many MUPs are terrible. Ebikes and MUPs are accidents
waiting to happen.

So it is in Massachusetts. Not that I'm suggesting that state be
nominated bellwether.

Singapore, some time ago, enacted laws for e-bikes. For example,

Riding power-assisted bicycle on footpaths $1,000 fine / 3 month
jail term / both

Speeding (10km/h on footpaths or 25km/h on shared paths and cycling
paths) $1,000 fine / 3 months\u2019 jail / both

Using non-compliant devices (20kg weight, 70cm wide, or 25km/h
speed) $5,000 fine / 3 month jail term / both

And as of 1 July 2019, it is an offence to ride an unregistered
e-scooter on public paths. Power-assisted bicycles (PABs) must be
sealed with the LTA approval seal, registered and affixed with a
registration plate.

Apparently e-bikes became very [popular in Singapore and as one guy
wrote: The number of mishaps caused by PMDs has been rising in
Singapore. Can't be that bad, you think. But the numbers are legit
shocking, 3 PMD-related accidents a week occur on public roads and
paths. A friend working in one of the public hospitals complains that
A&E is always filled with e-bike and e-scooter-related cases these
days.

Note that Singapore has always tended toward draconian laws and
punishments but by the same token they do, for example, have the least
narcotic problems of any city in the world.
--

Cheers,

John B.

28 mph e-bikes
 

This link may explain the National Park Service's sudden interest in promoting 28 mph mopeds on nature trails.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/30/juice...ic-moped-bike/

28 mph e-bikes
 

Stephen Bauman wrote:
This link may explain the National Park Service's sudden interest in promoting 28 mph mopeds on nature trails.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/30/juice...ic-moped-bike/

Useless pedals. Replace with dead-man's switch on handlebar.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 7:32:47 AM UTC-4, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Stephen Bauman wrote:
This link may explain the National Park Service's sudden interest in promoting 28 mph mopeds on nature trails.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/30/juice...ic-moped-bike/

Useless pedals. Replace with dead-man's switch on handlebar.

As I recall, the legal specs require that the motor can't be putting out power
unless the person pedals. The bikes that use power without pedaling are limited
to something like 19 miles per hour.

But I imagine there will be plenty of people hot-rodding these bikes. Supposedly
one can buy chips to do that already. Which is not a good development.

- Frank Krygowski

28 mph e-bikes
 

The problem isn't e-bikers going 28mph. It's *anyone* going 28mph in a real city. I think 20mph inside city limits (under pain of death) is plenty fast enough where there are humans and other living things present.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 20:55:05 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

The problem isn't e-bikers going 28mph. It's *anyone* going 28mph in a real city. I think 20mph inside city limits (under pain of death) is plenty fast enough where there are humans and other living things present.

Wouldn't it be even safer if people walked :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 8:47:28 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 7:32:47 AM UTC-4, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Stephen Bauman wrote:
This link may explain the National Park Service's sudden interest in promoting 28 mph mopeds on nature trails.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/30/juice...ic-moped-bike/

Useless pedals. Replace with dead-man's switch on handlebar.

As I recall, the legal specs require that the motor can't be putting out power
unless the person pedals. The bikes that use power without pedaling are limited
to something like 19 miles per hour.

But I imagine there will be plenty of people hot-rodding these bikes. Supposedly
one can buy chips to do that already. Which is not a good development.

- Frank Krygowski

I've disagree with the pedal assist vs. without pedaling distinction. Conflicts are due to performance differences regardless of how the performance is achieved.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On 9/2/2019 12:19 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 20:55:05 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

The problem isn't e-bikers going 28mph. It's *anyone* going 28mph in a real city. I think 20mph inside city limits (under pain of death) is plenty fast enough where there are humans and other living things present.

Wouldn't it be even safer if people walked :-)

Not according to research by John Pucher of Rutgers. His numbers show
pedestrians have over three times the fatality-per-mile rate of bicyclists.

British data also shows cycling to be safer per mile than walking. Ditto
some old Australian data, and IIRC several European countries.


--
- Frank Krygowski

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 8:55:07 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
The problem isn't e-bikers going 28mph. It's *anyone* going 28mph in a real city. I think 20mph inside city limits (under pain of death) is plenty fast enough where there are humans and other living things present.

Really, not even on a big wheel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BirBFFQXdS4 That's an arterial in my neighborhood. My top speed on that was 51 mph on a road bike -- no leathers or body armor (no road construction, either). Most cyclists skip that hill and go down via the cemetery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUXgvgWIURY&t=253s You do have to watch your speed there because of all the walkers and other cyclists -- and tractors and leaves. Fixie dope version 2.0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_jDIuRBEP0&t=104s start at 2:00. What's the life expectancy for a rear tire on a dope bike like that. A day?

-- Jay Beattie.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 10:32:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/2/2019 12:19 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 20:55:05 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

The problem isn't e-bikers going 28mph. It's *anyone* going 28mph in a real city. I think 20mph inside city limits (under pain of death) is plenty fast enough where there are humans and other living things present.

Wouldn't it be even safer if people walked :-)

Not according to research by John Pucher of Rutgers. His numbers show
pedestrians have over three times the fatality-per-mile rate of bicyclists.


But could that be that is because there are three times as many of
them :-)

British data also shows cycling to be safer per mile than walking. Ditto
some old Australian data, and IIRC several European countries.
For example
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...jan/11/fitness
I read that Presumably cycling is more dangerous than walking? Not so
- 671 pedestrians were killed in 2004, at a rate of 43 per billion km.
Really? But why compare auto's that travel at, perhaps 60 kmh and
bicycles that travel perhaps 30 kmh with pedestrian that maybe travel
4 kmh.

After all 43/billion is (if I got my numbers right) 1/23235813 km. At
4 km/h that is 663 years, or what about 9.5 lifetimes?

Walking is dangerius?
--

Cheers,

John B.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 8:55:07 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
The problem isn't e-bikers going 28mph. It's *anyone* going 28mph in a real city. I think 20mph inside city limits (under pain of death) is plenty fast enough where there are humans and other living things present.

I was riding with a guy yesterday and he was telling me about a friend of his with an Aluminum E-bike. The bike broke the head tube off at the down tube. He didn't crash but consider what would have occurred at 28 mph.

28 mph e-bikes
 

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 7:41:51 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 8:55:07 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
The problem isn't e-bikers going 28mph. It's *anyone* going 28mph in a real city. I think 20mph inside city limits (under pain of death) is plenty fast enough where there are humans and other living things present.

Really, not even on a big wheel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BirBFFQXdS4 That's an arterial in my neighborhood. My top speed on that was 51 mph on a road bike -- no leathers or body armor (no road construction, either). Most cyclists skip that hill and go down via the cemetery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUXgvgWIURY&t=253s You do have to watch your speed there because of all the walkers and other cyclists -- and tractors and leaves. Fixie dope version 2.0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_jDIuRBEP0&t=104s start at 2:00. What's the life expectancy for a rear tire on a dope bike like that. A day?

-- Jay Beattie.

That's just the opposite of my camera - that one makes it look like he's going fast when he can easily put a foot down. On mine on the fastest and scariest descents it appears to be moving in slow motion. I stopped using that camera.