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Hex Wrenches
After all these decades, I have no fancy hex wrenches -- nothing with a t-handle. Fanciest is a pedal wrench and a Park three-way. Are the Park T-handle wrenches worth it versus the standard long wrenches, e.g. https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...hex-wrench-set I'm also a little leery of the ball end fit.
-- Jay Beattie |
Hex Wrenches
On 6/7/2018 11:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:
After all these decades, I have no fancy hex wrenches -- nothing with a t-handle. Fanciest is a pedal wrench and a Park three-way. Are the Park T-handle wrenches worth it versus the standard long wrenches, e.g. https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...hex-wrench-set I'm also a little leery of the ball end fit. -- Jay Beattie Bondhus ball ends are very handy for light quick assembly especially with a screwdriver handle for things such as water bottle bolts. Switch to a full-engagement key to apply actual torque. short answer= you need both. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Hex Wrenches
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 09:01:23 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: After all these decades, I have no fancy hex wrenches -- nothing with a t-handle. Fanciest is a pedal wrench and a Park three-way. Are the Park T-handle wrenches worth it versus the standard long wrenches, e.g. https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...hex-wrench-set I'm also a little leery of the ball end fit. -- Jay Beattie Think about switching to Wera Hex-Plus wrenches: https://www-us.wera.de/en/great-tools/l-keys-in-a-two-component-clip/ https://www-us.wera.de/en/great-tools/hex-plus/ "German Tool Reviews: Wera Hex L-Keys" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi-i1bRWzFI "Why I now exclusively use Hex-Plus L-Keys: A short demonstration" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t82jTk3mP5E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRZjNYGHeRQ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Hex Wrenches
On 6/7/2018 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:
After all these decades, I have no fancy hex wrenches -- nothing with a t-handle. Fanciest is a pedal wrench and a Park three-way. Are the Park T-handle wrenches worth it versus the standard long wrenches, e.g. https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...hex-wrench-set I'm also a little leery of the ball end fit. That is not a link for the T-handle Park wrenches. Actually you want P-handle wrenches. https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/nashbar-p-handle-hex-wrench-set-bn-phs2-base https://www.coloradocyclist.com/park-ph-1-p-handle-hex-wrench-set |
Hex Wrenches
jbeattie wrote:
:After all these decades, I have no fancy hex wrenches -- nothing with a t-handle. Fanciest is a pedal wrench and a Park three-way. Are the Park T-handle wrenches worth it versus the standard long wrenches, e.g. https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...hex-wrench-set I'm also a little leery of the ball end fit. Park's hex wrenches used to be (and may still be) made by bondus. This is the set I use for bikes: https://www.amazon.com/Bondhus-13389.../dp/B00012Y38C I also use these (long L balldrivers) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E80G7A which are nice for obstructed pieces. I also a set of standard length Elkind hex keys, which are handy for putting in a pocket to go visit someone, and surprisingly nice for how cheap they are. I've also got assorted bits for interchangle bit screwdrivers, and sockets, which find a use on bikes once in a while. I fail to understand the love for Wera drivers. They're really expensive for Chinese made tools, and not any nicer than what Bondhus sell. -- sig 39 |
Hex Wrenches
David Scheidt wrote:
I've also got assorted bits for interchangle bit screwdrivers, and sockets, which find a use on bikes once in a while. No kidding, perhaps more common on my bikes than your road bikes and MTBs. The common small bolt heads and nuts are almost always 9mm or 10mm, sometimes 7mm or 9mm but much more rarely so. The axle dome nuts are 14mm or 15mm, so it is cool to have deep well sockets for the torque wrench, and a ring wrench that is one end 14, the other 15, prior to the torque. Sometimes on the same axle, one nut is 14, the other 15! On the saddle and kickstand for some reason (likewise on furniture) 13mm is a popular choice. So I try to cover those in just about every format there is, socket, ratchet, combination, ring, open, closed, deep, driver, blah blah blah. I fail to understand the love for Wera drivers. They're really expensive for Chinese made tools, and not any nicer than what Bondhus sell. What's the difference between the Wera Hex-Plus and Bondhus ball end? Bondhus is great, obviously. I have no experience with the Wera range but I have walked by it countless of times in the accursed hardware store... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
Hex Wrenches
Emanuel Berg wrote:
:David Scheidt wrote: : I've also got assorted bits for interchangle : bit screwdrivers, and sockets, which find : a use on bikes once in a while. :No kidding, perhaps more common on my bikes :than your road bikes and MTBs. The common small :bolt heads and nuts are almost always 9mm or I actually meant 'sockets with a hex bit in them', like these https://store.snapon.com/Hex-Standar...t-P630933.aspx since we're tlking about hex wrenches. (I have the sort you're talking about, as well as a collection of wrenches. many sorts.) :What's the difference between the Wera Hex-Plus :and Bondhus ball end? Bondhus is great, :obviously. I have no experience with the Wera :range but I have walked by it countless of :times in the accursed hardware store... the hex plus isn't hex shaped. it has the corners cut off (it's more complicated than taht, but that's a first approximation), so that the force is applied away from the cornders of the fastener hex. That's not a bad idea, it's universal in box end wrench designs. I haven't found it to be a problem with hex socket cap screws, though. At least when using the right bit, because there isn't enough clearance for the tool to rotate in the hole. -- sig 11 |
Hex Wrenches
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 17:53:42 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote: I fail to understand the love for Wera drivers. They're really expensive for Chinese made tools, and not any nicer than what Bondhus sell. Wera tools are made in Czech Republic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wera_Tools I can't explain why I like them. Maybe it's because I haven't mangled any hex head fasteners for many years. Maybe it's because they actually fit the hex heat bolt. Maybe because I think stainless hex drivers are cool and some kind of status symbol. Maybe because I have used their jewelers screwdriver sets without destroying as many Philips screw heads as I did in the past using Craftsman screwdrivers. One problem I have will many hex head drivers is that older cap screws tend to have a loose fit after being inserted and removed a few times. The sides of the hex usually expands in the middle, but leaves the corners in their original condition. Since the Hex-Plus patterns grabs the head by the corners, it still has a good fit. Commodity hex drivers tend to have a not so good fit, will rattle around in the heat, and may pop out if tightened at a slight angle. To be fair, I still have various newer Craftsman, Home Despot, and Chinese hand tools. They're handy for loaning to friends and neighbors. I keep the older Craftsman and newer Wera hand tools for myself. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Hex Wrenches
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 17:53:42 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote: :I fail to understand the love for Wera drivers. They're really :expensive for Chinese made tools, and not any nicer than what Bondhus :sell. :Wera tools are made in Czech Republic: :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wera_Tools Pull the other one. It's got bells on. They're assembled in CZ, what that actually means isn't transparent, given the EUs horrible COO regulations. (EU regulations let you put a "made in EU country" sticker on something for export, even if the only operation done in the EU was taking it out of a bulk box, putting the made in country sticker on it, and putting it in an idividual box.. That's improvement. Until recently you could claim "made in foo" if the product had been to foo. A few countries had stronger rules.) My educated suspicion is that the driver blades come from the factories in China that Wera make bits in. Handles are probaly czech. -- sig 99 |
Hex Wrenches
On 6/7/2018 12:53 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
jbeattie wrote: :After all these decades, I have no fancy hex wrenches -- nothing with a t-handle. Fanciest is a pedal wrench and a Park three-way. Are the Park T-handle wrenches worth it versus the standard long wrenches, e.g. https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...hex-wrench-set I'm also a little leery of the ball end fit. Park's hex wrenches used to be (and may still be) made by bondus. This is the set I use for bikes: https://www.amazon.com/Bondhus-13389.../dp/B00012Y38C I also use these (long L balldrivers) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E80G7A which are nice for obstructed pieces. I also a set of standard length Elkind hex keys, which are handy for putting in a pocket to go visit someone, and surprisingly nice for how cheap they are. I've also got assorted bits for interchangle bit screwdrivers, and sockets, which find a use on bikes once in a while. I fail to understand the love for Wera drivers. They're really expensive for Chinese made tools, and not any nicer than what Bondhus sell. We're also happy with Wiha allen products: https://www.wihatools.com/hex-tools/ball-end-hex some of which are very old and have been re faced many times. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Hex Wrenches
On 6/7/2018 1:47 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Emanuel Berg wrote: :David Scheidt wrote: : I've also got assorted bits for interchangle : bit screwdrivers, and sockets, which find : a use on bikes once in a while. :No kidding, perhaps more common on my bikes :than your road bikes and MTBs. The common small :bolt heads and nuts are almost always 9mm or I actually meant 'sockets with a hex bit in them', like these https://store.snapon.com/Hex-Standar...t-P630933.aspx since we're tlking about hex wrenches. (I have the sort you're talking about, as well as a collection of wrenches. many sorts.) :What's the difference between the Wera Hex-Plus :and Bondhus ball end? Bondhus is great, :obviously. I have no experience with the Wera :range but I have walked by it countless of :times in the accursed hardware store... the hex plus isn't hex shaped. it has the corners cut off (it's more complicated than taht, but that's a first approximation), so that the force is applied away from the cornders of the fastener hex. That's not a bad idea, it's universal in box end wrench designs. I haven't found it to be a problem with hex socket cap screws, though. At least when using the right bit, because there isn't enough clearance for the tool to rotate in the hole. Right I agree. Much like SnapOn Flank Drive except inside out. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Hex Wrenches
On 2018-06-07 09:01, jbeattie wrote:
After all these decades, I have no fancy hex wrenches -- nothing with a t-handle. Fanciest is a pedal wrench and a Park three-way. Are the Park T-handle wrenches worth it versus the standard long wrenches, e.g. https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...hex-wrench-set I'm also a little leery of the ball end fit. I was never much of a fan of the ball-ends. I do not have T-handle wrenches but pretty much all others and my favorite ones are the hex "socket-style" inserts. They can be clicked into a screwdriver-style handle, a T-handle driver if you must, a ratchet wrench and best of all, into my Ryobi power driver and the impact driver (for really tough jobs). They fit neatly into one small pouch, saving space in the tool box when things must be carried. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Hex Wrenches
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 19:25:53 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: :On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 17:53:42 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote: :I fail to understand the love for Wera drivers. They're really :expensive for Chinese made tools, and not any nicer than what Bondhus :sell. :Wera tools are made in Czech Republic: :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wera_Tools Pull the other one. It's got bells on. They're assembled in CZ, what that actually means isn't transparent, given the EUs horrible COO regulations. (EU regulations let you put a "made in EU country" sticker on something for export, even if the only operation done in the EU was taking it out of a bulk box, putting the made in country sticker on it, and putting it in an idividual box.. That's improvement. Until recently you could claim "made in foo" if the product had been to foo. A few countries had stronger rules.) My educated suspicion is that the driver blades come from the factories in China that Wera make bits in. Handles are probaly czech. Your comments about the EU might be true. I have no way of knowing from here as I don't deal with any EU companies directly. I find it strange that the EU beaurocracy, that micromanages every minute detail of product manufacture from conception to recycling, would be so loose on their labeling requirements. Is there a reason why the EU would want or tolerate such deceptive labeling?[1] You might want to reconsider after you watch this video: "Production of Wera tools in the Czech Republic." (translated from the original Polish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8h7ELeEFIk (6:32) The factory and workers are obviously doing more than assembling handles and seem to not be in China. Some of the machines in the video were cold heading and hot forging various hex head angle wrenches. [1] In the distant past, one of my marine radio products failed type acceptance testing in France and England specifically because the "Made in USA" label failed to include the periods in the U.S.A. It also failed in France because the light dimmer dimmed to extinction, as was required in other countries. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Hex Wrenches
On Thu, 07 Jun 2018 14:32:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2018 12:53 PM, David Scheidt wrote: I fail to understand the love for Wera drivers. They're really expensive for Chinese made tools, and not any nicer than what Bondhus sell. We're also happy with Wiha allen products: https://www.wihatools.com/hex-tools/ball-end-hex some of which are very old and have been re faced many times. Please note that Wiha and Wera are two different companies. Both are German companies. "Wiha vs Wera Hex L-Key Holding Feature Comparison" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnrDQy080Zs My comments and preferences are for the Wiha products (even though I screwed up and provided a link to a Wera factory tour). -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Hex Wrenches
On 6/7/2018 7:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 19:25:53 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: :On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 17:53:42 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote: :I fail to understand the love for Wera drivers. They're really :expensive for Chinese made tools, and not any nicer than what Bondhus :sell. :Wera tools are made in Czech Republic: :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wera_Tools Pull the other one. It's got bells on. They're assembled in CZ, what that actually means isn't transparent, given the EUs horrible COO regulations. (EU regulations let you put a "made in EU country" sticker on something for export, even if the only operation done in the EU was taking it out of a bulk box, putting the made in country sticker on it, and putting it in an idividual box.. That's improvement. Until recently you could claim "made in foo" if the product had been to foo. A few countries had stronger rules.) My educated suspicion is that the driver blades come from the factories in China that Wera make bits in. Handles are probaly czech. Your comments about the EU might be true. I have no way of knowing from here as I don't deal with any EU companies directly. I find it strange that the EU beaurocracy, that micromanages every minute detail of product manufacture from conception to recycling, would be so loose on their labeling requirements. Is there a reason why the EU would want or tolerate such deceptive labeling?[1] You might want to reconsider after you watch this video: "Production of Wera tools in the Czech Republic." (translated from the original Polish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8h7ELeEFIk (6:32) The factory and workers are obviously doing more than assembling handles and seem to not be in China. Some of the machines in the video were cold heading and hot forging various hex head angle wrenches. [1] In the distant past, one of my marine radio products failed type acceptance testing in France and England specifically because the "Made in USA" label failed to include the periods in the U.S.A. It also failed in France because the light dimmer dimmed to extinction, as was required in other countries. I don't know about Wera tools. But the EU regulatory racket is a racket. Chinese crap in a French box is French. Reggio Parmesan or Asiago made in Wisconsin is a danger to humanity. New York Feta is not allowed, and so on. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Hex Wrenches
On Thu, 07 Jun 2018 17:04:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: You might want to reconsider after you watch this video: "Production of Wera tools in the Czech Republic." (translated from the original Polish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8h7ELeEFIk (6:32) The factory and workers are obviously doing more than assembling handles and seem to not be in China. Some of the machines in the video were cold heading and hot forging various hex head angle wrenches. Oops. I screwed up. That's the Wera factory in the Czech Republic, and not one of the Wiha factories: https://www.wihatools.com/about-wiha-tools -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Hex Wrenches
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:Your comments about the EU might be true. I have no way of knowing :from here as I don't deal with any EU companies directly. I find it :strange that the EU beaurocracy, that micromanages every minute detail :of product manufacture from conception to recycling, would be so loose :on their labeling requirements. Is there a reason why the EU would :want or tolerate such deceptive labeling?[1] Because it's good for business, particularly for the export market, and it lets historically european manufacturers import **** from china and pretend they made it locally. (There were no EU laws mandating COO statements on goods sold in the EU until 2014, and in some cases they were strictly prohibited.) A garment "Made in Italy" is more valuable than one "Made in China, with tags sewn on in Italy". US labeling rules are less strict for the export market, too. Many things sold in the US which have to say "Made in the US of imported materials" or the like when sold here can be straight up "Made in USA" when sold abroad. -- sig 110 |
Hex Wrenches
On 6/7/2018 8:30 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote: :Your comments about the EU might be true. I have no way of knowing :from here as I don't deal with any EU companies directly. I find it :strange that the EU beaurocracy, that micromanages every minute detail :of product manufacture from conception to recycling, would be so loose :on their labeling requirements. Is there a reason why the EU would :want or tolerate such deceptive labeling?[1] Because it's good for business, particularly for the export market, and it lets historically european manufacturers import **** from china and pretend they made it locally. (There were no EU laws mandating COO statements on goods sold in the EU until 2014, and in some cases they were strictly prohibited.) A garment "Made in Italy" is more valuable than one "Made in China, with tags sewn on in Italy". US labeling rules are less strict for the export market, too. Many things sold in the US which have to say "Made in the US of imported materials" or the like when sold here can be straight up "Made in USA" when sold abroad. In our industry, bicycles are proudly "Designed in USA" with a big f**king flag logo, meaning, "We carefully reviewed the bids and chose the low bidder". -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Hex Wrenches
On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 1:59:19 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Maybe because I have used their jewelers screwdriver sets without destroying as many Philips screw heads as I did in the past using Craftsman screwdrivers. Jeff Liebermann How can you destroy screw heads with jewelers screwdrivers? You are talking about real little tiny screwdrivers that only work on really little tiny screws. NO force at all is required to turn tiny little screwdrivers on tiny little screws. You can't destroy the screw head unless you are a total incompetent ---. I have a set of tiny jewelers screwdrivers in a plastic case I probably bought at the dollar store or maybe Harbor Freight. Worked perfectly for decades now on the tiny screws I use them on. Your comparison of jewelers screwdrivers is about the same as comparing which rock can you bash someone's head in best. Hard granite, or soft limestone. Doesn't really matter which you use. Both are more than capable of smashing someone's head. The shi--iest jewelers screwdriver ever made is still capable of turning the little tiny screws. Because they are little tiny screws. |
Hex Wrenches
AMuzi wrote:
:Like Jeff I have mangled them, notably the 1.2mm size :knocking stuck Shimano gear wires out of Campagnolo shift :levers and such. I did that once. God was that a pain. (Why the hell does a shifter for a shimano hub use a campy head?) -- sig 64 |
Hex Wrenches
On 6/8/2018 8:59 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
AMuzi wrote: :Like Jeff I have mangled them, notably the 1.2mm size :knocking stuck Shimano gear wires out of Campagnolo shift :levers and such. I did that once. God was that a pain. (Why the hell does a shifter for a shimano hub use a campy head?) Not that it helps but the traditional size is still used by Campagnolo whereas Shimano, afflicted mightily with "not invented here" syndrome, switched to larger head wires. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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