visibility of DRL
 

From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running
lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the
time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found
myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed
by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the
bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over
several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's
more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before
dark, and overcast November day.

https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p


--
Truth is in your water heater.

visibility of DRL
 

David Scheidt wrote:
:From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running
:lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the
:time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found
:myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed
:by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the
:bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over
:several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's
:more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before
:dark, and overcast November day.

:https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p

And one that will make Frank happy:
https://goo.gl/maps/S1QRDrdpBhz


--
There's nothing sadder than an ontologist without an ontogenesis.
-- some guy with a beard

visibility of DRL
 

On Wednesday, April 3, 2019 at 9:56:49 PM UTC-4, David Scheidt wrote:
From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running
lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the
time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found
myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed
by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the
bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over
several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's
more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before
dark, and overcast November day.

https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p


--
Truth is in your water heater.

I see that your locale has those wonderful door zone bicycle lanes too. VBEG LOL

Cheers

visibility of DRL
 

On 04/04/2019 02.56, David Scheidt wrote:
From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running
lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the
time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found
myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed
by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the
bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over
several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's
more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before
dark, and overcast November day.

https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p

B+M conform to the German STVZO and have a sharp cutoff, to get it like
that it has to be angled up to dazzle oncoming vehicles.

Would be interesting to see how blinding it is at night.

visibility of DRL
 

On 4/3/2019 6:58 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
David Scheidt wrote:
:From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running
:lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the
:time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found
:myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed
:by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the
:bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over
:several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's
:more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before
:dark, and overcast November day.

:https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p

And one that will make Frank happy:
https://goo.gl/maps/S1QRDrdpBhz

LOL

In my city, we are proceeding with more protected bike lanes, and a
major reason is that it appears to be the only way to keep non-bicycles
out of the bike lane. Yesterday I got three letters from high-school
students complaining about people using the bike lane as a drop-off zone
and a place for police to issue tickets. Once the protected bike lanes
are in place in these problem areas it should solve this problem (and
perhaps create other problems, but ones that will affect the cyclists less.

Studies show the benefit of DRLs on bicycles, but it doesn't make any
difference to those that don't believe in scientific studies. It's like
climate change deniers and helmet deniers. Normally rational individuals
will believe what they want to believe, even if it's not supported by
any evidence.

visibility of DRL
 

On 4/3/2019 9:58 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
David Scheidt wrote:
:From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running
:lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the
:time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found
:myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed
:by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the
:bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over
:several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's
:more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before
:dark, and overcast November day.

:https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p

And one that will make Frank happy:
https://goo.gl/maps/S1QRDrdpBhz

I used your Street Views to track you along the street for quite a
while. Looks to me like in most photos, the light is visible only as a
white dot. (I suspect the photos where it looks brighter happened to
capture a moment when your handlebars twitched a big more toward the
Google car.) Overall, I doubt very much that it will make any more
difference than, say, if you painted a white circle on the middle of
your chest.

Which is not to say your light - or a white circle - has zero value in
daylight. There's data out there showing that motorcyclists who choose
white helmets get hit a bit less than motorcyclists who choose dark
helmets. However, that doesn't justify forcing all motorcyclists to wear
only white hats.

Some here will say that the problem is your Busch & Mueller headlight,
which is designed for lighting the road but not glaring in the eyes of
other road users. They have called for super-bright lights with
unsophisticated round beams, the kind that can irritate or even blind
others.

A couple weeks ago, my wife and I were on vacation in a city south of
here. On a riverside bike path at night, we were assaulted by one of
those glaring beams used by a rider coming the opposite direction. We
had to stop by the side of the bike path and shield our eyes until he
rode by. But I'm sure he felt very virtuous as well as safe.

We were passed by only one other cyclist. She had no lights at all.

So much for the Golden Mean.

--
- Frank Krygowski

visibility of DRL
 

On 4/4/2019 10:09 AM, sms wrote:

Studies show the benefit of DRLs on bicycles, but it doesn't make any
difference to those that don't believe in scientific studies.

The study that's most often cited by Daytime Running Light fans did,
indeed, purport to show that the lights caused fewer crashes. The
assumption, of course, is that because the cyclists were more visible,
cars and pedestrians avoided them more often.

But that study was funded by the company that manufactured the lights
and gave them away to the subjects of the study. It would be hard to
dream up a more biased way of conducting a study. And indeed, the
study's data tables showed that those using the lights suffered far
fewer _solo_ crashes. Those are crashes where the cyclist simply falls
on his own, perhaps running into a curb, losing balance when starting
out, slipping on wet leaves, etc. It's proof of bias built into the study.

But to a person like "sms" (AKA Stephen M. Scharf) those fine points
don't matter. Any study that confirms his prejudices is just fine, no
matter how badly it's done.

And his main prejudice is that bicycling is terribly dangerous! SO
terribly dangerous that one must always use lights front and back that
blind others, and one must never ride without a funny plastic hat, and
cities must build cattle chutes to hind cyclists behind parked cars, and
you really ought to have a flippy flag sticking out sideways from your
bike, and you're foolish if you ride without a loud electric horn on
your bike...

--
- Frank Krygowski

visibility of DRL
 

On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 7:55:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/3/2019 9:58 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
David Scheidt wrote:
:From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running
:lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the
:time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found
:myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed
:by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the
:bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over
:several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's
:more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before
:dark, and overcast November day.

:https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p

And one that will make Frank happy:
https://goo.gl/maps/S1QRDrdpBhz

I used your Street Views to track you along the street for quite a
while. Looks to me like in most photos, the light is visible only as a
white dot. (I suspect the photos where it looks brighter happened to
capture a moment when your handlebars twitched a big more toward the
Google car.) Overall, I doubt very much that it will make any more
difference than, say, if you painted a white circle on the middle of
your chest.

Which is not to say your light - or a white circle - has zero value in
daylight. There's data out there showing that motorcyclists who choose
white helmets get hit a bit less than motorcyclists who choose dark
helmets. However, that doesn't justify forcing all motorcyclists to wear
only white hats.

Some here will say that the problem is your Busch & Mueller headlight,
which is designed for lighting the road but not glaring in the eyes of
other road users. They have called for super-bright lights with
unsophisticated round beams, the kind that can irritate or even blind
others.

A couple weeks ago, my wife and I were on vacation in a city south of
here. On a riverside bike path at night, we were assaulted by one of
those glaring beams used by a rider coming the opposite direction. We
had to stop by the side of the bike path and shield our eyes until he
rode by. But I'm sure he felt very virtuous as well as safe.

We were passed by only one other cyclist. She had no lights at all.

So much for the Golden Mean.

I just yell at them -- like some psychotic homeless guy. I don't care. There is no excuse for a 1,000 lumen light with no cut-off in a side-by-side bike facility. Helmet lights are the worst. They're right at eye level, and even a 300-500 lumen light can be blinding. With daylight savings, a little one-watt flasher is sufficient, and is what I use when riding home in overcast or gloom.

-- Jay Beattie.

visibility of DRL
 

On 4/4/2019 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 7:55:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

A couple weeks ago, my wife and I were on vacation in a city south of
here. On a riverside bike path at night, we were assaulted by one of
those glaring beams used by a rider coming the opposite direction. We
had to stop by the side of the bike path and shield our eyes until he
rode by. But I'm sure he felt very virtuous as well as safe.

We were passed by only one other cyclist. She had no lights at all.

So much for the Golden Mean.

I just yell at them -- like some psychotic homeless guy. I don't care. There is no excuse for a 1,000 lumen light with no cut-off in a side-by-side bike facility. Helmet lights are the worst. They're right at eye level, and even a 300-500 lumen light can be blinding. With daylight savings, a little one-watt flasher is sufficient, and is what I use when riding home in overcast or gloom.

But its hard to convince those whose thought processes stop at "Well, it
_might_ help!!!"

Some members of our local club just found out that a neighboring bike
club now mandates blinky taillights on all its rides. So here we go again...


--
- Frank Krygowski

visibility of DRL
 

On 04/04/2019 12:33 p.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 7:55:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/3/2019 9:58 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
David Scheidt wrote:
:From time to time, we have discussed the visibility of daytime running
:lights. I commute on a bike with B&M Cyo, which I leave on all the
:time, because I can't tell the difference if it's on or off. I found
:myself on google street view on my ride home last fall. I got passed
:by the car, and then passed it, and got passed again. So I, and the
:bike, are in a bunch of pictures, from the front and behind, over
:several blocks. This one gives a good view of the headlight. It's
:more visible than I'd have expected. This was about an hour before
:dark, and overcast November day.

:https://goo.gl/maps/NQURJ9dps3p

And one that will make Frank happy:
https://goo.gl/maps/S1QRDrdpBhz

I used your Street Views to track you along the street for quite a
while. Looks to me like in most photos, the light is visible only as a
white dot. (I suspect the photos where it looks brighter happened to
capture a moment when your handlebars twitched a big more toward the
Google car.) Overall, I doubt very much that it will make any more
difference than, say, if you painted a white circle on the middle of
your chest.

Which is not to say your light - or a white circle - has zero value in
daylight. There's data out there showing that motorcyclists who choose
white helmets get hit a bit less than motorcyclists who choose dark
helmets. However, that doesn't justify forcing all motorcyclists to wear
only white hats.

Some here will say that the problem is your Busch & Mueller headlight,
which is designed for lighting the road but not glaring in the eyes of
other road users. They have called for super-bright lights with
unsophisticated round beams, the kind that can irritate or even blind
others.

A couple weeks ago, my wife and I were on vacation in a city south of
here. On a riverside bike path at night, we were assaulted by one of
those glaring beams used by a rider coming the opposite direction. We
had to stop by the side of the bike path and shield our eyes until he
rode by. But I'm sure he felt very virtuous as well as safe.

We were passed by only one other cyclist. She had no lights at all.

So much for the Golden Mean.

I just yell at them -- like some psychotic homeless guy. I don't care. There is no excuse for a 1,000 lumen light with no cut-off in a side-by-side bike facility. Helmet lights are the worst. They're right at eye level, and even a 300-500 lumen light can be blinding. With daylight savings, a little one-watt flasher is sufficient, and is what I use when riding home in overcast or gloom.

-- Jay Beattie.




Yeah, I never understood the concept of blinding someone heading toward
you.