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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new
chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg
wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 11:59:31 +0700, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". Sounds like some distortion somewhere under load. Does something need a clean; both pedal bearings, the bottom bracket, the chain ring bolts(clean and tighten), etc The only other sound maker I've come across rarely is chain rubbing on chain from too much wrap in the rear derauiller or chain rubbing on tyre from great sag/too little pick up in the rear derauiller but the fact that is across four cogs is would indicate that it isn't likely. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Frame Flexing a bit allowing the chain to touch those cogs? That could be why you don't see the chain touching the cogs when the bike is stopped. Cheers |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 06:52, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Frame Flexing a bit allowing the chain to touch those cogs? That could be why you don't see the chain touching the cogs when the bike is stopped. It's a fairly rigid steel frame but this could certainly be a possibility. I'll have a buddy who is a machinist take a close look while I step on it full tilt with the brakes applied. Weird thing is, to test for that I cocked the rear wheel slightly left (it has long dropout slots with vernier peg screws) and the sound did not change at all. If my buddy doesn't see anything skewing I am tempted to just go riding with that. I guess a 1982 bike is allowed some clunker sounds. At least then cyclists will hear me coming when I want to pass them :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. Cheers |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 9:29:33 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Joerg - in my experience this is because the rear derailleur is ever so slightly out of alignment. If it is towards the higher cog it will often "hop" and towards the lower side it will growl. This sort of misalignment general is only 1/8ith or less of a turn of the rear cable adjuster. You can also have a problem with a 7 speed chain on your reduced cassette. While 7 and 8 speed gears have the same spacing between cogs and the same cog width, some manufacturers are using 10 speed components supposedly with wider spacers that may be not wide enough for 10 speed cogs. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-23 09:48, wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 9:29:33 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Joerg - in my experience this is because the rear derailleur is ever so slightly out of alignment. If it is towards the higher cog it will often "hop" and towards the lower side it will growl. This sort of misalignment general is only 1/8ith or less of a turn of the rear cable adjuster. I have friction shifters and tried all sorts of fine adjustments. The growl is independent of it. You can also have a problem with a 7 speed chain on your reduced cassette. While 7 and 8 speed gears have the same spacing between cogs and the same cog width, some manufacturers are using 10 speed components supposedly with wider spacers that may be not wide enough for 10 speed cogs. Ok, but it doesn't rub against a neighboring cog which is about the only thing that could happen with a chain that is too wide. The growl even happens when on the largest cogs an in perfect aligment. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Is this growl actually coming from the front derailleur? Also - is the chain lubed? Third - is the Freehub properly tightened? Last - Are the wheel bearings in rough condition? |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 12:45, wrote:
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 09:48, wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 9:29:33 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Joerg - in my experience this is because the rear derailleur is ever so slightly out of alignment. If it is towards the higher cog it will often "hop" and towards the lower side it will growl. This sort of misalignment general is only 1/8ith or less of a turn of the rear cable adjuster. I have friction shifters and tried all sorts of fine adjustments. The growl is independent of it. You can also have a problem with a 7 speed chain on your reduced cassette. While 7 and 8 speed gears have the same spacing between cogs and the same cog width, some manufacturers are using 10 speed components supposedly with wider spacers that may be not wide enough for 10 speed cogs. Ok, but it doesn't rub against a neighboring cog which is about the only thing that could happen with a chain that is too wide. The growl even happens when on the largest cogs an in perfect aligment. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Is this growl actually coming from the front derailleur? Also - is the chain lubed? Third - is the Freehub properly tightened? Last - Are the wheel bearings in rough condition? Not coming from the FD, it doesn't touch the chain anywhere. Chain is new out of the box, factory lube. The freehub is tightened at full torque spec but has the usual bearing play of 0.050" or so. They all develop that on my bikes after 1000mi. It's about 5000mi old and freehubs mostly last about 10000mi on my road bike depending on terrain/weather. Since the freehub doesn't move versus the wheel under load I can't imagine that making a growl. The wheel bearings are old but adjusted well. I don't think they could make this loud a sound. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
Do you have horizontal dropouts? Maybe try positioning the axle differently. Some other suggestions:
Verify correct chain length, verify top der pulley does not rub on bottom of cassette, check B screw adjustment, verify der hangar is aligned with hangar alignment tool. Good luck!! |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 2:11:49 PM UTC-8, Earls61 wrote:
Do you have horizontal dropouts? Maybe try positioning the axle differently. Some other suggestions: Verify correct chain length, verify top der pulley does not rub on bottom of cassette, check B screw adjustment, verify der hangar is aligned with hangar alignment tool. Good luck!! Earl, I forgot the idler pulley problems. Joerg has a 40 tooth humongous low gear and you're probably correct that his derailleur probably doesn't have enough take-up to shift into low gear and not push the top idler pulley into the cogs. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 09:29:58 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. That chain slipping off the large cog is often due to the derailer stop setting. Try, with the bike either hung from a bike maintenance stand or set bottom side up, setting the stop screw so it won't shift onto the large cod and then adjusting it say a quarter of a turn at a time until it will just shift. The chain coming off the large cog and going into the spokes is not a good thing as it tends to damage the spokes, particularly when it comes off under load, and you may have a series of drive side spoke breakage... how do I know all this? Because my chain came off under load :-) Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 14:35, wrote:
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 2:11:49 PM UTC-8, Earls61 wrote: Do you have horizontal dropouts? Almost, they are angled slots. With vernier peg screws for precise axle positioning. ... Maybe try positioning the axle differently. ... I had tried that a lot, made no difference at all. ... Some other suggestions: Verify correct chain length, verify top der pulley does not rub on bottom of cassette, check B screw adjustment, verify der hangar is aligned with hangar alignment tool. Good luck!! I needed all the 116 links the chain came with. The top pulley is the usual 1/4" or 5mm from the 40T cog as is customary and set by the B screw. That position didn't make a difference either, I've tried varying that from 1/2" to almost hitting the cog. Earl, I forgot the idler pulley problems. Joerg has a 40 tooth humongous low gear and you're probably correct that his derailleur probably doesn't have enough take-up to shift into low gear and not push the top idler pulley into the cogs. The derailer got an extender adapter in order not to have to adjust the B screw to an extreme position. It fits nicely now. Looks a bit weird for a road bike to have the bottom idler be just inches off the pavement but, getting older, man's got to do what man's got to do (John Wayne). I just don't want to mash up these hills anymore and be able to spin some more on those sections. Now I can. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 15:09, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 09:29:58 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. That chain slipping off the large cog is often due to the derailer stop setting. Try, with the bike either hung from a bike maintenance stand or set bottom side up, setting the stop screw so it won't shift onto the large cod and then adjusting it say a quarter of a turn at a time until it will just shift. I've tried that. If I set the top idler much closer than 1/4" to the 40T cog shifting becomes laborious. VRRR .. RAT TAT TAT TRRRT KA-CLOCK. Sounds awful. Until I can make that next cassette mod I'll just have to shift back down to the first gear slowly. The chain coming off the large cog and going into the spokes is not a good thing as it tends to damage the spokes, particularly when it comes off under load, and you may have a series of drive side spoke breakage... how do I know all this? Because my chain came off under load :-) I had that happen on the MTB a lot (Dore XT indexed Shifters). There the main casue was rock hits. Rocks keep flying into the works all the time and then one bends the derailer hanger, and off the chain goes at the base of the next steep hill. Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. That was a very good thing. I wonder why that is no longer done. Hey, I can make one from Perspex, with embedded flashing blue LEDs :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 11/23/2018 12:29 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. Please remind me - why did you embark on this troublesome multi-stage kludge, instead of just installing a third front chainring? -- - Frank Krygowski |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 11/23/2018 7:37 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-23 15:09, John B Slocomb wrote: Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. That was a very good thing. I wonder why that is no longer done. I've come across a couple bikes over the years that had spoke protectors that were broken and rattling around. There's that, and of course there's the fact that if your system is operating properly, you simply don't need a spoke protector. I think the last time I used one was about 1975. I've never needed it. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-23 09:48, wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 9:29:33 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Joerg - in my experience this is because the rear derailleur is ever so slightly out of alignment. If it is towards the higher cog it will often "hop" and towards the lower side it will growl. This sort of misalignment general is only 1/8ith or less of a turn of the rear cable adjuster. I have friction shifters and tried all sorts of fine adjustments. The growl is independent of it. You can also have a problem with a 7 speed chain on your reduced cassette. While 7 and 8 speed gears have the same spacing between cogs and the same cog width, some manufacturers are using 10 speed components supposedly with wider spacers that may be not wide enough for 10 speed cogs. Ok, but it doesn't rub against a neighboring cog which is about the only thing that could happen with a chain that is too wide. The growl even happens when on the largest cogs an in perfect aligment. Worn front chainring disagreeing with your new chain, perhaps? |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:37:07 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-11-23 15:09, John B Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 09:29:58 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. That chain slipping off the large cog is often due to the derailer stop setting. Try, with the bike either hung from a bike maintenance stand or set bottom side up, setting the stop screw so it won't shift onto the large cod and then adjusting it say a quarter of a turn at a time until it will just shift. I've tried that. If I set the top idler much closer than 1/4" to the 40T cog shifting becomes laborious. VRRR .. RAT TAT TAT TRRRT KA-CLOCK. Sounds awful. Until I can make that next cassette mod I'll just have to shift back down to the first gear slowly. The chain coming off the large cog and going into the spokes is not a good thing as it tends to damage the spokes, particularly when it comes off under load, and you may have a series of drive side spoke breakage... how do I know all this? Because my chain came off under load :-) I had that happen on the MTB a lot (Dore XT indexed Shifters). There the main casue was rock hits. Rocks keep flying into the works all the time and then one bends the derailer hanger, and off the chain goes at the base of the next steep hill. Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. That was a very good thing. I wonder why that is no longer done. Hey, I can make one from Perspex, with embedded flashing blue LEDs :-) I'd guess that it isn't used today as the pseudo racers thought it looked "dorkie" and removed them before they took the bike out of the shop. .. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
Well, the only other thing I can think of is not related to your recent upgrade. In the past, when I have experienced a noise under power, it has been the cartridge bottom bracket failing. If that’s ok, then maybe check some other items that are not related to the upgrade, for instance, pedals, cleats, etc. Also check for frame breakage, stem and handlebar security, anything that strains when under power. Other than that, I am out of ideas.
This armchair troubleshooting across the internet only goes so far! I would need to see the bike to proceed any further. Please post back when you find it. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 17:13, Ralph Barone wrote:
Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 09:48, wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 9:29:33 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Joerg - in my experience this is because the rear derailleur is ever so slightly out of alignment. If it is towards the higher cog it will often "hop" and towards the lower side it will growl. This sort of misalignment general is only 1/8ith or less of a turn of the rear cable adjuster. I have friction shifters and tried all sorts of fine adjustments. The growl is independent of it. You can also have a problem with a 7 speed chain on your reduced cassette. While 7 and 8 speed gears have the same spacing between cogs and the same cog width, some manufacturers are using 10 speed components supposedly with wider spacers that may be not wide enough for 10 speed cogs. Ok, but it doesn't rub against a neighboring cog which is about the only thing that could happen with a chain that is too wide. The growl even happens when on the largest cogs an in perfect aligment. Worn front chainring disagreeing with your new chain, perhaps? Theoretically possible but it's happening with both of them and the noise seems to be coming from back. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 18:23, Earls61 wrote:
Well, the only other thing I can think of is not related to your recent upgrade. In the past, when I have experienced a noise under power, it has been the cartridge bottom bracket failing. If that’s ok, then maybe check some other items that are not related to the upgrade, for instance, pedals, cleats, etc. Also check for frame breakage, stem and handlebar security, anything that strains when under power. Other than that, I am out of ideas. This armchair troubleshooting across the internet only goes so far! I would need to see the bike to proceed any further. Please post back when you find it. I will. It happened immediately after installing a new cassette, new chain and new rear derailer so chances are 99% it's one of those. However, I need a 2nd person to ride next to me who has better directional hearing (mine partially went in an army accident) and who can closely watch what the frame/chainline/teeth do when pedaling hard on the stopped bike (brakes held). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 17:22, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:37:07 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 15:09, John B Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 09:29:58 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. That chain slipping off the large cog is often due to the derailer stop setting. Try, with the bike either hung from a bike maintenance stand or set bottom side up, setting the stop screw so it won't shift onto the large cod and then adjusting it say a quarter of a turn at a time until it will just shift. I've tried that. If I set the top idler much closer than 1/4" to the 40T cog shifting becomes laborious. VRRR .. RAT TAT TAT TRRRT KA-CLOCK. Sounds awful. Until I can make that next cassette mod I'll just have to shift back down to the first gear slowly. The chain coming off the large cog and going into the spokes is not a good thing as it tends to damage the spokes, particularly when it comes off under load, and you may have a series of drive side spoke breakage... how do I know all this? Because my chain came off under load :-) I had that happen on the MTB a lot (Dore XT indexed Shifters). There the main casue was rock hits. Rocks keep flying into the works all the time and then one bends the derailer hanger, and off the chain goes at the base of the next steep hill. Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. That was a very good thing. I wonder why that is no longer done. Hey, I can make one from Perspex, with embedded flashing blue LEDs :-) I'd guess that it isn't used today as the pseudo racers thought it looked "dorkie" and removed them before they took the bike out of the shop. Yeah, they also think side reflectors are dorky. That's how I almost hit a cyclist at night. He blew a stop sign, was on a dark frame, dark clothes. IOW he was nuts. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Still thinking about whet might be causing that noise. Cheers |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 11/24/2018 10:24 AM, Joerg wrote:
Yeah, they also think side reflectors are dorky. That's how I almost hit a cyclist at night. He blew a stop sign, was on a dark frame, dark clothes. IOW he was nuts. But the absence of side reflectors is the least of his problems. I assume he had no legal lights on the bike. That's problem #1. Blowing the stop sign was problem #2. The dark clothes, dark bike frame and lack of reflectors probably wouldn't have made a difference. And I don't want to see motorists blaming victims by saying "His bike and clothes were the wrong color." (If he did have legal lights and you failed to spot him, then your lack of observation was problem #1.) In a potential T impact like you describe, side reflectors are usually not in the car's headlight beams early enough to make a difference. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-24 15:53, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? No but I might do that with some once they are worn. Done it before and it has never caused growling noises. I don't care much about losing the HG advantage and milliseconds during shifts. Still thinking about whet might be causing that noise. After church I'll do a ride with a buddy who is a machinist. Hopefully we'll find out what the noise is because next week there'd be a longer ride with a few guys where I don't want to become the one whose bike croaks. BTW, the machinist rides a beautifully restored (but modified) Peugeot PX-10 from 1972. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them. -- Jay Beattie. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them. Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and make sure nothing potentially flammable is around. This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that last UG hub was finished, then I went HG. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them. Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and make sure nothing potentially flammable is around. This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that last UG hub was finished, then I went HG. Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg. -- duane |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 2:37:18 PM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them. Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and make sure nothing potentially flammable is around. This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that last UG hub was finished, then I went HG. Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg. -- duane You can flip the one that don't have the built in spacer but they don't work right or as designed to. Straight tooth cogs like the old Uniglide ones should be flipped with no problems arising from being flipped. Remember that Joerg hacked this cassette and put some cogs on individually. That's why I asked if he inadvertently put some on backwards. That plus the 7-speed chain might cause the problem he's having. Cheers Cheers |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them. Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and make sure nothing potentially flammable is around. This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that last UG hub was finished, then I went HG. Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg. Why -- when a UG freehub is on its last legs -- would someone grind down an entire set of HG cassettes to make them fit? You know the end is near -- just go buy the damned hub or at least swap in a HG freehub body. It's a ten minute operation. Not possible for old DuraAce (which Joerg would never own anyway), but you could swap freehub bodies on 600EX. Plus, even after you get done grinding, you have to use the last threaded cog -- which is probably worn out. And for Sir, you can't flip HG -- at least not without grinding. I just went and tried flipping a cog from a junk freewheel sitting in my basement. It's a no-go. I'll go try again just to make sure I'm not missing anything. -- Jay Beattie. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 4:24:40 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote: Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight.. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them. Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and make sure nothing potentially flammable is around. This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that last UG hub was finished, then I went HG. Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg. Why -- when a UG freehub is on its last legs -- would someone grind down an entire set of HG cassettes to make them fit? You know the end is near -- just go buy the damned hub or at least swap in a HG freehub body. It's a ten minute operation. Not possible for old DuraAce (which Joerg would never own anyway), but you could swap freehub bodies on 600EX. Plus, even after you get done grinding, you have to use the last threaded cog -- which is probably worn out. And for Sir, you can't flip HG -- at least not without grinding. I just went and tried flipping a cog from a junk freewheel sitting in my basement. It's a no-go. I'll go try again just to make sure I'm not missing anything.. -- Jay Beattie. I'm NOT talking about flipping a HG cog onto a UG freehub. I'm talking about flipping a HG cog on a HG freehub. CHeers |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 4:24:40 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote: Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front.. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them. Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and make sure nothing potentially flammable is around. This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that last UG hub was finished, then I went HG. Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg. Why -- when a UG freehub is on its last legs -- would someone grind down an entire set of HG cassettes to make them fit? You know the end is near -- just go buy the damned hub or at least swap in a HG freehub body. It's a ten minute operation. Not possible for old DuraAce (which Joerg would never own anyway), but you could swap freehub bodies on 600EX. Plus, even after you get done grinding, you have to use the last threaded cog -- which is probably worn out. And for Sir, you can't flip HG -- at least not without grinding. I just went and tried flipping a cog from a junk freewheel sitting in my basement.. It's a no-go. I'll go try again just to make sure I'm not missing anything. -- Jay Beattie. I'm NOT talking about flipping a HG cog onto a UG freehub. I'm talking about flipping a HG cog on a HG freehub. CHeers I can't get a HG cassette cog to fit on a HG freehub body if I flip the cog.. The notches are not symmetrical. -- Jay Beattie. |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 06:09:49 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote: Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. Mine was chrome-plated steel. I missed the constant jingle after a competent mechanic threw it away. (It never did anything except warn people that I was coming.) -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 4:05:29 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ It just occurred to me Joerg - didn't the older 8-speed SunRace cassettes come with SR or Shimano spacings You can look at https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k9.shtml |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:47:27 -0500,
Joy Beeson wrote: On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 06:09:49 +0700, John B Slocomb wrote: Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. Mine was chrome-plated steel. I missed the constant jingle after a competent mechanic threw it away. (It never did anything except warn people that I was coming.) And the earlier versions being made of metal is probably why these came to be called pie plates. -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
Noise from new Sunrace cassette (solved)
On 2018-11-26 08:56, wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 4:05:29 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ It just occurred to me Joerg - didn't the older 8-speed SunRace cassettes come with SR or Shimano spacings You can look at https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k9.shtml I have (mostly) used a set of spacers from my old UG cassettes. That way I got seven of the eight cogs mounted on the freehub. Had to scarifice the 15T. On a hilly ride yesterday that felt good but I'll see on a longer ride in the flatlands later this week if the 15T should go back in and maybe the 28T taken out instead. 40T in back sure feels good on some of these here hills. BTW, together with a buddy we found the cause and I think someone here had mentioned it: The chain rings are a bit worn. The smaller one more so and it has developed slight shark fin tips on the teeth. This causes the chain to be picked up at the bottom during high torque, resulting in chain slap and, in consequence, derailer "dancing". Unfortunately that chain ring can't be flipped around easily for a 2nd life so I need to find a new one. For now I'll file down the shark fins a bit. Question: Does anyone now whether it's ok to buy a 30mm BCD chain ring for 10-speed chains that's a bit narrower and run a 7-speed chain on it? I guess it'll "walk" a bit more sideways that usual, not sure if that matters much. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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