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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it
apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
"sms" wrote in message ... My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. My favourite is recycle bin rescues - with a £0 price tag; life expectancy isn't something to get traumatised about. Most laptop packs are 2 or 3P-3S, you can split them up as series or parallel pairs A/R. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-06 13:07, Ian Field wrote:
"sms" wrote in message ... My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. My favourite is recycle bin rescues - with a £0 price tag; life expectancy isn't something to get traumatised about. Most laptop packs are 2 or 3P-3S, you can split them up as series or parallel pairs A/R. In many areas they won't let you dive into recycling bins. You'd almost have to lie in wait, dart out and yell "Yo, don't hand over that laptop just yet!". Otherwise when it's in there it's in there and not coming back out. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote:
My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... -- - Frank Krygowski |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 21:56:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... And I doubt that your generators cost $150 ($180 with a box) either :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms
wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. I don't see a problem. If your wife used the light every day for about 2 years, that would be 730 charge cycles. That's about the correct lifetime for a 60% DoD (depth of discharge). See table 2: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Charging the batteries in parallel with a 2A USB charger is also about right. For two alleged 2800mA-hr cells in parallel, that would be about 0.35C charge which is quite safe. I've found that the cells that die quickly are usually helped along by a charge circuit that overcharges the battery. 4.2v should be the absolute maximum. LiIon loses about 10% of it's capacity during the initial rapid discharge from 4.2 to 4.0V. While I don't like losing the 10%, the battery will last much longer if only charged to 4.0v. Charging to 3.92v yields the best compromise between two failure mechanisms (electrolyte oxidation and growing crud on the anode). See "summary" section: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_808b_what_causes_li_ion_to_die It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. Seems rather high. Note that batteries are tested at a 0.2C discharge, which yields larger numbers than the usual headlight discharge rate. The Lezyne Deca 1500XXL claims 1500 lumens, which also seems a bit high. Assuming 120 lumens/watt at a nominal 3.7V/battery, that's: 1500 / 120 / 3.7 = 3.4A to run the headlight at full brightness, or 1.7A per cell. Meanwhile, the cell capacity is tested at: 0.2 * 2800 = 0.56A The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. Notice that his version: https://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-Li-ion-2200mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B002Y2LJW0/ is series connected, but claims only 2200ma-hr. Kinda looks like the same cells, but wired differently. Looks like the one you purchased might be lying about the battery capacity. You'll find out soon enough if the battery is discharged faster than expected. Ready to buy a battery discharge tester http://www.westmountainradio.com/cba.php and a lux meter? https://www.ebay.com/itm/391973339920 https://www.ebay.com/itm/401324425264 I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. Yeah, for how long will it work? Dig out your digital volts-guesser and measure the EoC (end of charge) voltage. If it's over 4.2v, that may be why it died early. Also, see how long it will run. You don't want it going out prematurely on the initial test run. Maybe carry a 2nd headlight for the initial testing. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Notice that his version: https://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-Li-ion-2200mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B002Y2LJW0/ is series connected, but claims only 2200ma-hr. Kinda looks like the same cells, but wired differently. Looks like the one you purchased might be lying about the battery capacity. You'll find out soon enough if the battery is discharged faster than expected. Tenergy has several different 18650 cells at different capacities. I guess I should have gotten these 9800maH 18650 cells: https://www.walmart.com/ip/8-pcs-Universal-18650-3-7V-9800-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Batteries-Tip-Main-Batery-Cell-For-Flashlight-Torch-Camera/866646151. 9800mAH and only $1 each. But I'm waiting for the new 10,000 mAH cells. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/7/2018 12:06 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. My regular glass bulb lamps go 6~8 years between bulb failure in daily use. YMMV -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 7:16:12 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 21:56:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... And I doubt that your generators cost $150 ($180 with a box) either :-) My generator and light cost almost five times the price of my little L&M Urban 800 all-in-one, which produces more light. Hub was $110 on sale at Western Bikeworks (SP PD8), and the Luxos B was around $120 OTC from Clever Cycles in Portland. Throw in time for building front wheel. I got the all in one on sale for around $45. Now, the battery life on the Urban sucks, and forgetting to charge is a reality -- so it's not as convenient as a dyno light, but I can switch it around between bikes. I've been switching between two bikes for commuting lately due to mechanical issues. One bike has a through-axle and the other doesn't, so switching dyno lights would be impossible. I'd need a dyno hub with 15mm through axle which, on its own, can cost as much as $200. I would also have to get a handlebar mount since there is no through hole on the crown of either of my disc bikes. I miss that and once I get a bar mount, I'll go back to using my Luxos B on the commuter, but I'll also use my little flea-watt back up blinky on the bar. I think low watt flashers or pulsing (rather than bursting flash-bulb) flashers are good in urban bicycle and car traffic. -- Jay Beattie. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/7/2018 10:22 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 7:16:12 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 21:56:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... And I doubt that your generators cost $150 ($180 with a box) either :-) My generator and light cost almost five times the price of my little L&M Urban 800 all-in-one, which produces more light. Hub was $110 on sale at Western Bikeworks (SP PD8), and the Luxos B was around $120 OTC from Clever Cycles in Portland. Throw in time for building front wheel. I got the all in one on sale for around $45. Hub dynos can be a significant expense, but they are not the only choice. One does not always need their advantages. My touring bike and our tandem have bottle dynos with good B&M headlights. Those bottle dynos were free, decades ago. The one on my touring bike is occasionally starting to rattle a bit (I think a bearing is going) but it's usually perfect. When I get annoyed enough, I'll replace it with another free one from my junk box. My wife's touring bike and two of our folding bikes have roller dynos. They work especially well for folders because they are compact and well protected. I bought one of those roller units brand new in about 1979. I think another was bought used, and I know one was given to me. So overall, my dyno expenses are minimal. Granted, bottle dynos might slip in heavy rain if not well adjusted. Rollers will slip in mud. But those shortcomings are unimportant to most cyclists. Jay, I think your riding conditions are at the far right of some bell curve. You do fast sport riding over long distances, you commute almost every day in all weather, you commute over tough hills and dirt paths, you ride in dense traffic, you maintain a stable of bikes... Very few cyclists do all those things. Very few really need the high efficiency and extreme reliability of a hub dyno. Very few need multi-hundred-lumen headlights. I think almost all cyclists would do fine with an old-tech dyno and a good (not top-of-the-line) B&M headlight. It wouldn't cost them an arm and a leg. And it wouldn't require hacker-style electronic repair in three years. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/7/2018 1:06 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S.Â* Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. I had one off-brand dyno LED headlight quit. Oddly enough, the LED itself died while the light was less than a year old. The company had stopped selling it - gee, I wonder why? - so they gave me a battery light in exchange. Just for kicks, I replaced the dyno light's LED myself and it still works. But I'm not qualified to comment on waterproofing of Cyo lights. I have a couple, but they're mounted under my handlebar bags. They don't get very wet even on the unusual occasions when I ride at night in the rain. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 8:13:04 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/7/2018 10:22 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 7:16:12 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 21:56:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... And I doubt that your generators cost $150 ($180 with a box) either :-) My generator and light cost almost five times the price of my little L&M Urban 800 all-in-one, which produces more light. Hub was $110 on sale at Western Bikeworks (SP PD8), and the Luxos B was around $120 OTC from Clever Cycles in Portland. Throw in time for building front wheel. I got the all in one on sale for around $45. Hub dynos can be a significant expense, but they are not the only choice. One does not always need their advantages. My touring bike and our tandem have bottle dynos with good B&M headlights. Those bottle dynos were free, decades ago. The one on my touring bike is occasionally starting to rattle a bit (I think a bearing is going) but it's usually perfect. When I get annoyed enough, I'll replace it with another free one from my junk box. My wife's touring bike and two of our folding bikes have roller dynos. They work especially well for folders because they are compact and well protected. I bought one of those roller units brand new in about 1979. I think another was bought used, and I know one was given to me. So overall, my dyno expenses are minimal. Granted, bottle dynos might slip in heavy rain if not well adjusted. Rollers will slip in mud. But those shortcomings are unimportant to most cyclists. Jay, I think your riding conditions are at the far right of some bell curve. You do fast sport riding over long distances, you commute almost every day in all weather, you commute over tough hills and dirt paths, you ride in dense traffic, you maintain a stable of bikes... Very few cyclists do all those things. Very few really need the high efficiency and extreme reliability of a hub dyno. Very few need multi-hundred-lumen headlights. I think almost all cyclists would do fine with an old-tech dyno and a good (not top-of-the-line) B&M headlight. It wouldn't cost them an arm and a leg. And it wouldn't require hacker-style electronic repair in three years. I intend to go back to a dyno on my commuter, and if I had a single transportation bike, it would have a dyno. Also, my Urban 800 is under-powered for heavy rain, and the battery life at full output is pitiful. For stormy nights, I'd use something with a higher output or just cope with riding by Braille. I don't think my riding pattern is unusual in this city, except for the stable of bikes thing and the fact that the new bikes have odd-ball axle and fork crown issues. If I had not gotten a free replacement CX frame for my commuter, I would have rebuilt the commuter on something different -- maybe even one of the Somas like the Fogcutter, which is a really cool frame with a threaded BB, discs and all the braze-ons one could hope for. -- Jay Beattie. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/7/2018 7:01 AM, AMuzi wrote:
snip My regular glass bulb lamps... I read about those in my history book. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/7/2018 7:22 AM, jbeattie wrote:
snip My generator and light cost almost five times the price of my little L&M Urban 800 all-in-one, which produces more light. Hub was $110 on sale at Western Bikeworks (SP PD8), and the Luxos B was around $120 OTC from Clever Cycles in Portland. Throw in time for building front wheel. I got the all in one on sale for around $45. Now, the battery life on the Urban sucks, and forgetting to charge is a reality -- so it's not as convenient as a dyno light, but I can switch it around between bikes. I've been switching between two bikes for commuting lately due to mechanical issues. One bike has a through-axle and the other doesn't, so switching dyno lights would be impossible. I'd need a dyno hub with 15mm through axle which, on its own, can cost as much as $200. I would also have to get a handlebar mount since there is no through hole on the crown of either of my disc bikes. I miss that and once I get a bar mount, I'll go back to using my Luxos B on the commuter, but I'll also use my little flea-watt back up blinky on the bar. I think low watt flashers or pulsing (rather than bursting flash-bulb) flashers are good in urban bicycle and car traffic. When the Lezyne battery pack failed (and it failed completely, not just lower capacity), we were about to go out on a ride. I gave my identical light to the spousal unit, and I relied on my dynamo light with hub dynamo. It was a day ride so it was no big deal, but there was no way anyone would want to be out on that unlit MUP at night with only a dynamo light. It's very dark with a lot of twists and turns, and ups and downs. I'd estimate that about 70% of the riders on the MUP had DRLs going. The dynamo light on my road bike is not a high-end dynamo light (that's on my Dahon folder), but it is the only commercially available dynamo light with a flashing DRL. It's enough to stay legal and be seen https://www.planetbike.com/store/blaze-dynamo-sl-bike-headlight.html. And yes, adequate dynamo lights are very expensive, not just because of the light itself, but because of the high cost of a wheel with a dynamo hub. One advantage of the Oculus light from Barry is that it uses standard size button-top Li-Ion batteries https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91CXQCE95lL._SL1500_.jpg that are easily user replaceable . With the Lezyne, you could carry some extra battery packs but you really would not want to be taking the light apart to change the battery while on a ride. It's very water-proof with O-rings in three places that you'd have to get back in place, and one of the screws holding it together is a very small Torx screw. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 06:38:29 -0800, sms
wrote: On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: Notice that his version: https://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-Li-ion-2200mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B002Y2LJW0/ is series connected, but claims only 2200ma-hr. Kinda looks like the same cells, but wired differently. Looks like the one you purchased might be lying about the battery capacity. You'll find out soon enough if the battery is discharged faster than expected. Tenergy has several different 18650 cells at different capacities. Yes, that's possible. I guess I should have gotten these 9800maH 18650 cells: https://www.walmart.com/ip/8-pcs-Universal-18650-3-7V-9800-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Batteries-Tip-Main-Batery-Cell-For-Flashlight-Torch-Camera/866646151. 9800mAH and only $1 each. But I'm waiting for the new 10,000 mAH cells. I have some Belchfire brand 5800 ma-hr cells that cost me about $1 on eBay. At 1.5A, they deliver 890 ma-hr. http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/battery-tests/18650.jpg My theory is that the actual capacity is inversely proportional to the advertised capacity. No need to wait for 10K LiIon cells. By merely misusing an existing overpriced product: http://store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2847/.f you can reduce or eliminate the losses from cell contact resistance sufficiently to deliver a 10K LiIon cell. Only $150/7.4mL. It should have about the same performance improvement as soldering the battery contact spring in a LiIon flashlight, but without the bother of learning how to solder properly: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=flashlight+solder+spring&oq=flas hlight+solder+spring Admittedly, such performance enhancements are most useful for high power lighting, but if only 10% of the bicycle lighting sales predictions are credible, we will soon be riding around with megalumen headlights. I'm anxiously waiting for a copper or brass bicycle light (to further reduce resistive losses in the aluminum package): https://www.google.com/search?q=copper+flashlight&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=brass+flashlight&tbm=isch After those, we can try a silver plated bicycle light. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. I don't see a problem. If your wife used the light every day for about 2 years, that would be 730 charge cycles. That's about the correct lifetime for a 60% DoD (depth of discharge). See table 2: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Not nearly every day. I'd estimate about 200 total charge/discharge cycles. Something failed in the battery pack because it wasn't like the operating time was less than when new, the pack would not charge at all. Charging the batteries in parallel with a 2A USB charger is also about right. For two alleged 2800mA-hr cells in parallel, that would be about 0.35C charge which is quite safe. I've found that the cells that die quickly are usually helped along by a charge circuit that overcharges the battery. 4.2v should be the absolute maximum. LiIon loses about 10% of it's capacity during the initial rapid discharge from 4.2 to 4.0V. While I don't like losing the 10%, the battery will last much longer if only charged to 4.0v. Charging to 3.92v yields the best compromise between two failure mechanisms (electrolyte oxidation and growing crud on the anode). See "summary" section: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_808b_what_causes_li_ion_to_die The charge voltage was correct. And of course the protection circuit in he pack ensures that the charge voltage doesn't exceed 4.2V, regardless of what the charging circuit voltage actually is. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. Seems rather high. Note that batteries are tested at a 0.2C discharge, which yields larger numbers than the usual headlight discharge rate. The Lezyne Deca 1500XXL claims 1500 lumens, which also seems a bit high. Assuming 120 lumens/watt at a nominal 3.7V/battery, that's: 1500 / 120 / 3.7 = 3.4A to run the headlight at full brightness, or 1.7A per cell. Meanwhile, the cell capacity is tested at: 0.2 * 2800 = 0.56A This is the battery in the original pack: http://www.gebc-energy.com/Uploadfile/pdf/ICR18650/ICR18650H3.pdf I disassembled the pack. The batteries are completely discharged, 0V. To me this indicates a failure of the protection circuit which normally would not allow discharge below 2.8V. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. Notice that his version: https://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-Li-ion-2200mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B002Y2LJW0/ is series connected, but claims only 2200ma-hr. Kinda looks like the same cells, but wired differently. Looks like the one you purchased might be lying about the battery capacity. You'll find out soon enough if the battery is discharged faster than expected. Do any manufacturers not lie? It's a matter of degree. Tenergy is an industrial supplier of batteries with a real building in Fremont, and not like buying no-name batteries on Aliexpress. Ready to buy a battery discharge tester http://www.westmountainradio.com/cba.php and a lux meter? https://www.ebay.com/itm/391973339920 https://www.ebay.com/itm/401324425264 I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. Yeah, for how long will it work? Dig out your digital volts-guesser and measure the EoC (end of charge) voltage. If it's over 4.2v, that may be why it died early. Also, see how long it will run. You don't want it going out prematurely on the initial test run. Maybe carry a 2nd headlight for the initial testing. The charge voltage from the plug that connects to the battery was 4.19V. I checked that before I ordered a new battery because I thought that the problem with the light might have been with the charging circuitry. The measured lumens by mtbr.com of the Deca Drive XXL was 1390, so they were not using chilumens https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chilumen, and there was minimal lunmenflation https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lumenflation. This morning I put the light on the maximum setting and it ran for just about exactly two hours before it stepped down the intensity. 5200 mAH [rated] 3.7 V [rated] 19.24 Watt-Hours [calculated] 2.0 Hours [measured] 9.62 Watts [calculated] 2.6 Amps [calculated] 1390 lumens [measured by mtbr.com] 144.5 lumens/watt [calculated] 3 LEDs 48.2 lumens/LED [calculated] Of course the reality is that the batteries were not fully discharged when it dropped the output, so the lumens per watt was likely quite a bit higher. I like the design of the Lezyne and how they use 3 LEDs to mitigate thermal issues, as well as to give a more usable beam pattern that includes sufficient side illumination. Definitely NOT StVZO https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stvzo. What some people don't understand is that optics are very important in bicycle lights where you are dealing with a limited amount of battery or dynamo power. The Lezyne also shows you whether you're connected to a low-power USB port (500mA) or a 2A USB port. The charging LED is green for low power, blue for high power. You don't need their 2A charger, any 2A charger will do. This is the one I use: https://www.frys.com/product/8335977. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 07/02/18 16:01, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/7/2018 12:06 AM, Tosspot wrote: On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S.Â* Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. My regular glass bulb lamps go 6~8 years between bulb failure in daily use. YMMV That ain't bad, and ime I'd expect a good few years from a filament bulb. I like LEDs because they are bright, and take little power. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
"Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2018-02-06 13:07, Ian Field wrote: "sms" wrote in message ... My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. My favourite is recycle bin rescues - with a £0 price tag; life expectancy isn't something to get traumatised about. Most laptop packs are 2 or 3P-3S, you can split them up as series or parallel pairs A/R. In many areas they won't let you dive into recycling bins. You'd almost have to lie in wait, dart out and yell "Yo, don't hand over that laptop just yet!". Otherwise when it's in there it's in there and not coming back out. Most don't take any notice - one that said no has the bin next to customer service desk, reconnaissance on the way in - anything interest and i make use of the seating and wait for the clerk to nip out. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 11:23:23 -0800, sms
wrote: This is the battery in the original pack: http://www.gebc-energy.com/Uploadfile/pdf/ICR18650/ICR18650H3.pdf 4.3V max seems rather high and unsafe. I disassembled the pack. The batteries are completely discharged, 0V. To me this indicates a failure of the protection circuit which normally would not allow discharge below 2.8V. 0V is an important clue. The undervoltage CID (current interrupt device) protection of the battery has kicked in and disconnected the positive terminal. How to recover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWmu3U7tndA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3Tv1Jg0ps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9BTNrJ0C_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OKz3LpNHRg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDP7Q3v3xA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOi0hepEtYo I see this 0V problem quite often on brand new clone laptop battery packs. I use a small jewelers screwdriver to recover. I don't know exactly why the CID tripped, but my guess(tm) is that the BMS (battery management system) has a low voltage trip point BELOW the voltage of where the CID trips. The BMS probably has an accurate low voltage disconnect voltage of 3.00v±0.1V. However, the CID on the battery is a mechanical device which can vary. I do not currently have numbers on it's trip voltage but if it's over 3.00V, the CID will trip before the BMS. Do any manufacturers not lie? Everyone lies, but that's ok because nobody listens. It's a matter of degree. Tenergy is an industrial supplier of batteries with a real building in Fremont, and not like buying no-name batteries on Aliexpress. Yep. I have quite a few Tenergy battery packs and chargers mostly purchased from HobbyKing. Two of the really simple chargers blew up and killed some battery packs. The batteries have been fine. All of them met their capacity specs (tested at 0.2C). The charge voltage from the plug that connects to the battery was 4.19V. I checked that before I ordered a new battery because I thought that the problem with the light might have been with the charging circuitry. The BMS overvoltage disconnects the battery at 4.28V±0.025V so you're probably ok with the charger. I prefer a lower voltage for the EoC in order to get a longer battery life. This morning I put the light on the maximum setting and it ran for just about exactly two hours before it stepped down the intensity. 5200 mAH [rated] 3.7 V [rated] 19.24 Watt-Hours [calculated] 2.0 Hours [measured] 9.62 Watts [calculated] 2.6 Amps [calculated] 1390 lumens [measured by mtbr.com] 144.5 lumens/watt [calculated] 3 LEDs 48.2 lumens/LED [calculated] Of course the reality is that the batteries were not fully discharged when it dropped the output, so the lumens per watt was likely quite a bit higher. Those numbers look quite sane. The 144.5 lumens/watt seems a bit high, especially when measured through a lens, but are not outrageously inflated. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/7/2018 2:23 PM, sms wrote:
On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. I don't see a problem.Â* If your wife used the light every day for about 2 years, that would be 730 charge cycles.Â* That's about the correct lifetime for a 60% DoD (depth of discharge).Â* See table 2: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Not nearly every day. I'd estimate about 200 total charge/discharge cycles. Something failed in the battery pack because it wasn't like the operating time was less than when new, the pack would not charge at all. Charging the batteries in parallel with a 2A USB charger is also about right.Â* For two alleged 2800mA-hr cells in parallel, that would be about 0.35C charge which is quite safe. I've found that the cells that die quickly are usually helped along by a charge circuit that overcharges the battery.Â* 4.2v should be the absolute maximum.Â* LiIon loses about 10% of it's capacity during the initial rapid discharge from 4.2 to 4.0V.Â* While I don't like losing the 10%, the battery will last much longer if only charged to 4.0v. Charging to 3.92v yields the best compromise between two failure mechanisms (electrolyte oxidation and growing crud on the anode).Â* See "summary" section: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_808b_what_causes_li_ion_to_die The charge voltage was correct. And of course the protection circuit in he pack ensures that the charge voltage doesn't exceed 4.2V, regardless of what the charging circuit voltage actually is. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. Seems rather high.Â* Note that batteries are tested at a 0.2C discharge, which yields larger numbers than the usual headlight discharge rate.Â* The Lezyne Deca 1500XXL claims 1500 lumens, which also seems a bit high.Â* Assuming 120 lumens/watt at a nominal 3.7V/battery, that's: Â*Â*Â* 1500 / 120 / 3.7 = 3.4A to run the headlight at full brightness, or 1.7A per cell. Meanwhile, the cell capacity is tested at: Â*Â*Â* 0.2 * 2800 = 0.56A This is the battery in the original pack: http://www.gebc-energy.com/Uploadfile/pdf/ICR18650/ICR18650H3.pdf I disassembled the pack. The batteries are completely discharged, 0V. To me this indicates a failure of the protection circuit which normally would not allow discharge below 2.8V. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. Notice that his version: https://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-Li-ion-2200mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B002Y2LJW0/ is series connected, but claims only 2200ma-hr.Â* Kinda looks like the same cells, but wired differently.Â* Looks like the one you purchased might be lying about the battery capacity.Â* You'll find out soon enough if the battery is discharged faster than expected. Do any manufacturers not lie? It's a matter of degree. Tenergy is an industrial supplier of batteries with a real building in Fremont, and not like buying no-name batteries on Aliexpress. Ready to buy a battery discharge tester http://www.westmountainradio.com/cba.php and a lux meter? https://www.ebay.com/itm/391973339920 https://www.ebay.com/itm/401324425264 I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. Yeah, for how long will it work?Â* Dig out your digital volts-guesser and measure the EoC (end of charge) voltage.Â* If it's over 4.2v, that may be why it died early.Â* Also, see how long it will run.Â* You don't want it going out prematurely on the initial test run.Â* Maybe carry a 2nd headlight for the initial testing. The charge voltage from the plug that connects to the battery was 4.19V. I checked that before I ordered a new battery because I thought that the problem with the light might have been with the charging circuitry. The measured lumens by mtbr.com of the Deca Drive XXL was 1390, so they were not using chilumens https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chilumen, and there was minimal lunmenflation https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lumenflation. This morning I put the light on the maximum setting and it ran for just about exactly two hours before it stepped down the intensity. 5200Â*Â*Â* mAH [rated] 3.7Â*Â*Â* V [rated] 19.24Â*Â*Â* Watt-Hours [calculated] 2.0Â*Â*Â* Hours [measured] 9.62Â*Â*Â* Watts [calculated] 2.6Â*Â*Â* Amps [calculated] 1390Â*Â*Â* lumens [measured by mtbr.com] 144.5Â*Â*Â* lumens/watt [calculated] 3Â*Â*Â* LEDs 48.2Â*Â*Â* lumens/LED [calculated] Of course the reality is that the batteries were not fully discharged when it dropped the output, so the lumens per watt was likely quite a bit higher. I like the design of the Lezyne and how they use 3 LEDs to mitigate thermal issues, as well as to give a more usable beam pattern that includes sufficient side illumination. Definitely NOT StVZO https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stvzo. Scharf's dictionary editing reminds me of this Dilbert strip: http://dilbert.com/strip/2009-05-08 What some people don't understand is that optics are very important in bicycle lights where you are dealing with a limited amount of battery or dynamo power. What I don't understand is that you say that now, yet you've spent years lobbying in favor of systems that shine half of their lumens at overhead aircraft, instead of where they're really needed. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 07/02/18 20:23, sms wrote:
On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. I don't see a problem.Â* If your wife used the light every day for about 2 years, that would be 730 charge cycles.Â* That's about the correct lifetime for a 60% DoD (depth of discharge).Â* See table 2: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Just adding to this, a lot of people don't realise LiIon batteries die without doing anything to them. In other words, you can't just simply count recharge cycles if they are infrequent. https://batteryworkshop.msfc.nasa.go...att_KBugga.pdf |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 07:07:29 +0100, Tosspot
wrote: On 07/02/18 20:23, sms wrote: On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. I don't see a problem.* If your wife used the light every day for about 2 years, that would be 730 charge cycles.* That's about the correct lifetime for a 60% DoD (depth of discharge).* See table 2: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Just adding to this, a lot of people don't realise LiIon batteries die without doing anything to them. In other words, you can't just simply count recharge cycles if they are infrequent. https://batteryworkshop.msfc.nasa.go...att_KBugga.pdf That's for LiIon batteries that might be used in a space mission, where long "storage" life, until needed, it important. Even so, NASA's own conclusion (at end of report) does not suggest that the cells self destruct without doing anything to them: Lithium ion cells have thus far shown impressive storage characteristics at low to warm storage temperatures – Over 90% capacity available at ambient and low storage temperatures. – Retain good low temperature capability after storage. – Marginal increase in the impedance, possibly from cathode interface. • Lithium ion batteries show good promise to meet the needs of long-life space missions (or terrestrial applications, e,g biomedical) but require continued validation from such real-time tests. The "continued validation" means: "More research is necessary. Send funding". What I've found in my disorganized testing is that I can throw a few charged LiIon batteries into my dashboard glove compartment, located to top of the dashboard where the sun can easily turn it into an oven, cram the battery into my cell phone or flashlight, and get about 90% of the capacity of a freshly charged battery. I've been doing such battery rotation with cell phone batteries for about 10 years without any problems. I've also been doing it with 18650 and 14500 flashlight cells for about 2 years, also without any problems. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-07 13:05, Ian Field wrote:
"Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2018-02-06 13:07, Ian Field wrote: "sms" wrote in message ... My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. My favourite is recycle bin rescues - with a £0 price tag; life expectancy isn't something to get traumatised about. Most laptop packs are 2 or 3P-3S, you can split them up as series or parallel pairs A/R. In many areas they won't let you dive into recycling bins. You'd almost have to lie in wait, dart out and yell "Yo, don't hand over that laptop just yet!". Otherwise when it's in there it's in there and not coming back out. Most don't take any notice - one that said no has the bin next to customer service desk, reconnaissance on the way in - anything interest and i make use of the seating and wait for the clerk to nip out. In the country you live in maybe. In the US there may be a nasty surprise waiting when trying to leave the store with the treasure, later followed by a police cruiser for a ride into town but not to the destination you intended. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 08/02/18 07:56, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 07:07:29 +0100, Tosspot wrote: On 07/02/18 20:23, sms wrote: On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. I don't see a problem.Â* If your wife used the light every day for about 2 years, that would be 730 charge cycles.Â* That's about the correct lifetime for a 60% DoD (depth of discharge).Â* See table 2: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Just adding to this, a lot of people don't realise LiIon batteries die without doing anything to them. In other words, you can't just simply count recharge cycles if they are infrequent. https://batteryworkshop.msfc.nasa.go...att_KBugga.pdf That's for LiIon batteries that might be used in a space mission, where long "storage" life, until needed, it important. Even so, NASA's own conclusion (at end of report) does not suggest that the cells self destruct without doing anything to them: Lithium ion cells have thus far shown impressive storage characteristics at low to warm storage temperatures – Over 90% capacity available at ambient and low storage temperatures. – Retain good low temperature capability after storage. – Marginal increase in the impedance, possibly from cathode interface. • Lithium ion batteries show good promise to meet the needs of long-life space missions (or terrestrial applications, e,g biomedical) but require continued validation from such real-time tests. The "continued validation" means: "More research is necessary. Send funding". What I've found in my disorganized testing is that I can throw a few charged LiIon batteries into my dashboard glove compartment, located to top of the dashboard where the sun can easily turn it into an oven, cram the battery into my cell phone or flashlight, and get about 90% of the capacity of a freshly charged battery. I've been doing such battery rotation with cell phone batteries for about 10 years without any problems. I've also been doing it with 18650 and 14500 flashlight cells for about 2 years, also without any problems. Keep them cool and they last better. Ime, it doesn't really add up to much because with daily usage i.e. phone, they begin to noticeably die about the three year mark anyway. And they are a damn sight better that NiCads! |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't see you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around. I have 4-5h of juice on the road bike. If that ever drops off it'll cost me around $20 to replace the Li-Ion battery pack. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-07 07:01, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/7/2018 12:06 AM, Tosspot wrote: On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. My regular glass bulb lamps go 6~8 years between bulb failure in daily use. YMMV Ye olde 2.4W + 0.6W with a dynamo? When riding at a good clip, meaning north of 15mph, those never lasted much longer than a month for me. Even if they didn't blow their filament right away the bulbs turned black inside and became dimmer than they were already to begin with. When I was a teenager I started equipping my bikes with what the automotive industry already understood over 100 years ago, brighter lights, a battery and charging system. Soon the German police wanted to give me a ticket for "non-standard" lighting. Luckily by that time I was a Dutch resident and they had to let me go. Those 2.4W bulbs were a joke. My bikes (after my teenage years) always had better lighting than that. Now it's all LED on my bikes but the real stuff with more than 500 lumens. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-07 08:20, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/7/2018 1:06 AM, Tosspot wrote: On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. I had one off-brand dyno LED headlight quit. Oddly enough, the LED itself died while the light was less than a year old. The company had stopped selling it - gee, I wonder why? - so they gave me a battery light in exchange. Just for kicks, I replaced the dyno light's LED myself and it still works. But I'm not qualified to comment on waterproofing of Cyo lights. I have a couple, but they're mounted under my handlebar bags. They don't get very wet even on the unusual occasions when I ride at night in the rain. That depends on the kind of rain. Sideways rain, big old fat rain, upside down rain :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ihL_FrFPs -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/8/2018 2:08 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-07 07:01, AMuzi wrote: On 2/7/2018 12:06 AM, Tosspot wrote: On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. My regular glass bulb lamps go 6~8 years between bulb failure in daily use. YMMV Ye olde 2.4W + 0.6W with a dynamo? When riding at a good clip, meaning north of 15mph, those never lasted much longer than a month for me. Even if they didn't blow their filament right away the bulbs turned black inside and became dimmer than they were already to begin with. When I was a teenager I started equipping my bikes with what the automotive industry already understood over 100 years ago, brighter lights, a battery and charging system. Soon the German police wanted to give me a ticket for "non-standard" lighting. Luckily by that time I was a Dutch resident and they had to let me go. Those 2.4W bulbs were a joke. My bikes (after my teenage years) always had better lighting than that. Now it's all LED on my bikes but the real stuff with more than 500 lumens. For years with a Margil cover or, after a Krygowski mod with O ring, and without a switch (always on) I have no complaints about function or longevity. YMMV. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-06 20:48, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms wrote: [...] It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. Seems rather high. Probably a Chinese spec :-) Just like with lights where there are lumens and then there are Chilumens. ... Note that batteries are tested at a 0.2C discharge, which yields larger numbers than the usual headlight discharge rate. The Lezyne Deca 1500XXL claims 1500 lumens, which also seems a bit high. Assuming 120 lumens/watt at a nominal 3.7V/battery, that's: 1500 / 120 / 3.7 = 3.4A to run the headlight at full brightness, or 1.7A per cell. Meanwhile, the cell capacity is tested at: 0.2 * 2800 = 0.56A Classic American answer: Then you need a bigger battery. On my road bike I use eight 18650 cells, four in parallel and two of those packs in series so the current on the cable to the front light doesn't exceed 1A, at least not by much. My MTB has to make do with four cells but except for short bursts on city streets or fast county roads I drop that down from 8W to 3W or sometimes even 1.5W in front. I ride all roads in car traffic with lights, day and night, and then usually at full bore. Bike paths sans DRL, singletrack with just the front light lit so dirt bikers see me. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/8/2018 2:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't see you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around. Yes, Joerg, we know: "Danger! Danger!" First, I've been riding regularly at night since roughly 1977. The event you describe has never come close to happening to me. At a red light or stop sign, the motorists behind me are coming to a stop anyway; plus my bike has reflectors. Second, if you're really that terrified, it's easy to put a $5 blinkie powered by AA cells on the back of a bike. That's perfectly adequate for the fearsom scenario you imagine. Gawd, you're afraid of traffic! What a wimp. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-08 12:20, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/8/2018 2:08 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-07 07:01, AMuzi wrote: On 2/7/2018 12:06 AM, Tosspot wrote: On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. My regular glass bulb lamps go 6~8 years between bulb failure in daily use. YMMV Ye olde 2.4W + 0.6W with a dynamo? When riding at a good clip, meaning north of 15mph, those never lasted much longer than a month for me. Even if they didn't blow their filament right away the bulbs turned black inside and became dimmer than they were already to begin with. When I was a teenager I started equipping my bikes with what the automotive industry already understood over 100 years ago, brighter lights, a battery and charging system. Soon the German police wanted to give me a ticket for "non-standard" lighting. Luckily by that time I was a Dutch resident and they had to let me go. Those 2.4W bulbs were a joke. My bikes (after my teenage years) always had better lighting than that. Now it's all LED on my bikes but the real stuff with more than 500 lumens. For years with a Margil cover or, after a Krygowski mod with O ring, and without a switch (always on) I have no complaints about function or longevity. YMMV. How much does that O-ring reduce the drag? In the old days (with a real power bus on the bike) I often rode the first miles with the dynamo off because of the drag. I only put it back to the wheel when the "steam gauge needle" (remember those?) got too close to the red range. Last time I was in Germany they didn't have the old covers anymore and on EBay they want a small fortune for those plastic thingies: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Margil-Dyna...0/312037616264 -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
"Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2018-02-07 13:05, Ian Field wrote: "Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2018-02-06 13:07, Ian Field wrote: "sms" wrote in message ... My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. My favourite is recycle bin rescues - with a £0 price tag; life expectancy isn't something to get traumatised about. Most laptop packs are 2 or 3P-3S, you can split them up as series or parallel pairs A/R. In many areas they won't let you dive into recycling bins. You'd almost have to lie in wait, dart out and yell "Yo, don't hand over that laptop just yet!". Otherwise when it's in there it's in there and not coming back out. Most don't take any notice - one that said no has the bin next to customer service desk, reconnaissance on the way in - anything interest and i make use of the seating and wait for the clerk to nip out. In the country you live in maybe. In the US there may be a nasty surprise waiting when trying to leave the store with the treasure, later followed by a police cruiser for a ride into town but not to the destination you intended. Someone might drop packaged security tagged batteries in there. I ignore any such finds, today I scored a wad of assorted button cell cards that had half of them been used - they were clearly not straight from the shelves to the bin. One store has the recycle box under the display hooks - stock regularly falls in there, it doesn't take a genius to figure out. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
"Tosspot" wrote in message ... On 07/02/18 16:01, AMuzi wrote: On 2/7/2018 12:06 AM, Tosspot wrote: On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is around 7 years old. [1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof imho. My regular glass bulb lamps go 6~8 years between bulb failure in daily use. YMMV That ain't bad, and ime I'd expect a good few years from a filament bulb. I like LEDs because they are bright, and take little power. With Miller bottle dynamos - the rear bulb blew on the first hill you went down. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
"Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't see you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around. AFAIK: dynamo lighting is illegal in the UK for exactly that reason. The wording leaves much ambiguities about using a dynamo to maintain rechargeable batteries. Its probably "technically" still an offence. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-08 13:59, Ian Field wrote:
"Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2018-02-07 13:05, Ian Field wrote: "Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2018-02-06 13:07, Ian Field wrote: "sms" wrote in message ... My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6. I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now. My favourite is recycle bin rescues - with a £0 price tag; life expectancy isn't something to get traumatised about. Most laptop packs are 2 or 3P-3S, you can split them up as series or parallel pairs A/R. In many areas they won't let you dive into recycling bins. You'd almost have to lie in wait, dart out and yell "Yo, don't hand over that laptop just yet!". Otherwise when it's in there it's in there and not coming back out. Most don't take any notice - one that said no has the bin next to customer service desk, reconnaissance on the way in - anything interest and i make use of the seating and wait for the clerk to nip out. In the country you live in maybe. In the US there may be a nasty surprise waiting when trying to leave the store with the treasure, later followed by a police cruiser for a ride into town but not to the destination you intended. Someone might drop packaged security tagged batteries in there. No, just the regular recycling stuff. It's illegal to pilfer and carry out. Plus the store wants to avoid it for liability and fraud reasons. All it takes is the hidden security camera trained on that bin and they'll nail you at the entrance. I ignore any such finds, today I scored a wad of assorted button cell cards that had half of them been used - they were clearly not straight from the shelves to the bin. One store has the recycle box under the display hooks - stock regularly falls in there, it doesn't take a genius to figure out. Out here they are usually at the waste company's recycling centers, in our case located behind a supermarket. They do not allow take-outs. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message ... On 2/8/2018 2:59 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't see you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around. Yes, Joerg, we know: "Danger! Danger!" First, I've been riding regularly at night since roughly 1977. The event you describe has never come close to happening to me. At a red light or stop sign, the motorists behind me are coming to a stop anyway; plus my bike has reflectors. Recently found what was left of a rear-ended bicycle chucked on the grass verge not far from traffic lights last time I went to the next town. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
"sms" wrote in message ... On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board. I don't see a problem. If your wife used the light every day for about 2 years, that would be 730 charge cycles. That's about the correct lifetime for a 60% DoD (depth of discharge). See table 2: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Not nearly every day. I'd estimate about 200 total charge/discharge cycles. Something failed in the battery pack because it wasn't like the operating time was less than when new, the pack would not charge at all. Memory effect is usual on nickel chemistry batteries that are regularly only partly discharged - not so far heard of it on lithium. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 11:23:23 -0800, sms wrote: This is the battery in the original pack: http://www.gebc-energy.com/Uploadfile/pdf/ICR18650/ICR18650H3.pdf 4.3V max seems rather high and unsafe. I disassembled the pack. The batteries are completely discharged, 0V. To me this indicates a failure of the protection circuit which normally would not allow discharge below 2.8V. Automatic polarity protection - it needs a little voltage to tell which way round it is. Passing current with a car headlamp bulb in series with a 12V battery usually gets enough voltage lift for detection. |
Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-08 14:05, Ian Field wrote:
"Joerg" wrote in message ... On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote: My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon. Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep going and going and going... Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't see you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around. AFAIK: dynamo lighting is illegal in the UK for exactly that reason. All it takes is you standing in the left turn lane and some soused guy in a hurry cutting across that area, seeing you about one second before impact. Of course, Frank won't understand that but luckily your lawmakers did. The wording leaves much ambiguities about using a dynamo to maintain rechargeable batteries. Its probably "technically" still an offence. It used to be much worse in Germany. They did not allow having a real power bus on a bicycle because it didn't have some StVZO number or some such nonsense. Luckily by the time they caught me I had my residence in the Netherlands so they had to let me ride on, not matter how peeved they were. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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