On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 12:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 4:09:58 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 09:55:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:20:29 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 9:39:06 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 12:51:05 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
These rims are so mechanically strong that they cannot be flexed so the only thing that it can be is the less tight spokes.

I'd say that evenness of tension in a wheel is more important for accurate steering and resistance to handling challenges than outright tension, but that doesn't mean that a certain minimum tension is not hugely desirable, in fact essential to a correctly responding wheel.

I can't say I take kindly to the implication by ticket-punched "engineers" that an unevenly slack set of spokes won't change the distance between the driven or steering hub and the contact patch, both items which will make for uncertain steering. I suggest that the clowns who're propelling themselves down the dead-end of an absolutely indefensible theory check their instinct to hound Tom Kunick and set their brains free to think the subject out before they start shouting "Wrong, wrong, wrong, because it is Tom who says it."

What Tom claimed isn't wrong because Tom says it. It's simply wrong. Less tension
in a wheel's spokes do not measurably change the stiffness of the wheel. (And
Tom said nothing about uneven tensions. That's a Jutian smoke screen.)

From https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel_index.html

"1. Does stiffness vary with spoke tension? Some believe that a wheel built with tighter spokes is stiffer. It is not. Wheel stiffness does not vary significantly with spoke tension unless a spoke becomes totally slack."

Detailed measurements are given for confirmation, meaning this is fact, not
"indefensible theory." Although anyone who can read and understand a stress-
strain curve should be able to figure it out without the test measurements.

- Frank Krygowski

Please do not give me this crap about "detailed measurements" when I can actually push the wheel with softer spokes over to the side whereas the clincher with tight spokes does not move.

But Tom, you were bragging about the wonderfully cheap Chinese made
carbon fiber wheels... And now you are complaining about the same
wonderfully cheap Chinese made wheels.

It says a great deal about your judgment?
--
cheers,

John B.

Why must you continually make a fool of yourself? Is it a natural ability of yours? The set of 50 mm deep carbon clinchers are perfect. I can descend at any speed I am capable of doing. It is the tubeless 55 mm wheels that are improperly made I now have a combined mileage on these deep carbon wheels of 1,000 miles. So even though the tubeless set has problems I can still ride them at 32 mph safely and without getting any flats.

Why don't you tell us what you're riding?

I have two elderly, what is usually called "classic", steel frame
bicycles and one I built, about 10 years ago using the lightest
Columbus steel tubing in the "classic" sizes.

So far, no frame failures. On one bike I have a pair of the cheapest
Shimano wheels. It originally had a pair of up-market wheels and I
broke a spoke and they went out of round so I bought the cheap
Shimanos as a stopgap until I fixed the older set, and maybe 5 years
later the cheap Shimanos are still round and not wobbling so I've
never bothered to change back.

Buy why ask? Do you somehow believe that a set of plastic wheels makes
you a better person? More intelligent? Closer to God?
--
cheers,

John B.