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Old June 8th 13, 07:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
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Posts: 538
Default Is Mike Vandeman finally dead?

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

All public resources must be managed. They cannot be managed
to please everyone. Hiking trails are best managed to please just one group –
hikers! What’s the matter? Can’t walk?


Why must they be managed purely to please hikers ? How on earth do you justify that ?


Hikers aren’t pleased when they have to step aside for cyclists or worse, get hit by them.

We have all seen trails that have been ruined by mountain
bikers. Mr. Vandeman is the expert on that subject.


I have jousted with Vandeman several times. He writes nonsense and he has, in alt.mountain-bike, admitted actions that, despite all his protestations, show that he was correctly convicted of battery. I tried debating in a reasonable fashion with him but his inane conversation inevitably degenerates into calling everyone liars when they point out the gaping flaws in his assertions or logic. If that's your 'expert' I suggest you find a better one PDQ.


I know My Vandeman a thousand times better than you do. What you have to say about him is water off a duck’s back to me.

ERs are being flooded with injuries and fatalities from
mountain biking on hiking trails. If you had even an ounce of common sense you
would know how dangerous it is. Some extreme jerks are even encouraging children
to take up the sport.


Do you understand maths ? If there are close to 50 million people riding in the US then, even for a very low risk activity, there will be a fair number of injuries and even some fatalities. However, statistically, the risk is way lower than driving ... and is also way lower than dying of ischaemic heart disease which is an order of magnitude higher. Bottom line, you are far LESS likely to die if you take up mountain biking as opposed to sit on your butt in front of the TV.


There are not 50 million cyclists riding mountain bikes on hiking trails. People die of heart disease after living a long life. Those cyclists who do ride their bikes on hiking trails are at high risk of injury and even death. If you had any common sense you would know that.

Even if it were possible, I would be against it on esthetic
grounds. Mountain biking is a sport, hiking is a religion. The two things don’t
go together.


Says who ? This is an assertion without any factual backup. I accept that it is what you feel ... but feelings are not normally valid reasons to take policy decisions.


You must be blind and deaf as well as senseless. Mountain bikers and hikers are on trails for entirely different reasons. I am too weary to bother to explain those differences to someone who refuses to acknowledge that they even exist.

I have a mountain bike myself which I ride on the gravel roads
hereabouts. Minnesota has thousands of miles of such roads and are ideal for
mountain bikes. Mountain bikers are hardly ever are in a position to
appreciate nature. They are always going too fast. You have to go slow to
appreciate and to consider nature.


Two rebuttals. 1. As long as they don't hurt anyone else, it is not for anyone to determine how others enjoy nature and, 2. Mountain bikes go slowly uphill and stop periodically ... giving ample opportunity to enjoy the environment.


I am telling you that mountain bikers do hurt hikers just by their very presence on a trail. Mountain bikers are not there to enjoy the environment, They are there for thrills and spills. A group of mountain bikers is like a gang of hoodlums. Equestrians hate the lot of you even more than hikers.

It is brute reality. Get used to it. We hikers hate mountain
bikers on our sacred trails. Get your own trails and stay off of
ours!


It's YOUR reality. I very much doubt there are too many others who feel that way. It's as inapplicable to the overall situation as my stating that, where I live, hike and ride there is no animosity. It's a personal experience; what evidence do you have that others share your hatred ?


I am on a list of recipients of emails which more than back up every word of mine. It may be that you there in Scotland have found a special place where all is peace. But it is strife and rancor in most of America. There is no getting along with one another such as you experience.

And, even if they did, such emotional baggage is not valid grounds for making any kind of decision. That needs cool heads and logic ... not emotive rabble rousing.


It is going to get far more emotional and when it does the managers of our public lands are going to get a comeuppance. They will be forced to develop trails solely for bikers if that is what everyone wants. Hikers and bikers cannot coexist on the same trails.

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


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