On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 03:13:36 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 8:33:14 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2021 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:

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Yes, food is on-topic in every newsgroup, but barbecued meat is lousy
bike fuel.

Unless you have it *after* the ride.

Fat is the best bike fuel, unless you're constantly working at or above your aerobic threshold. If you aren't a racer, stay away from the carbs. That said, bbq is an excellent fuel. Tons of studies and research have been conducted in this area. The book "paleo diet for athletes" goes into great detail with plenty of supported research citations, and no, it isn't a militant diet book. It espouse an "80/20" philosophy, where taking in foods that are strictly forbidden by the strict paleo diet philosophy are not only allowed, but in many cases necessary for peak athletic performance. The owner of the Paleo Diet trademark Trevor Connor speaks often about his penchant for a box of popcorn at the movies, and eating simple-sugar candies while competing - both of which would send a militant paleo dieter into apoplexy.


Out of curiosity I researched "paleo diet" and found that in science
there is no such thing, as "palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets :-)

That's a reasonable conclusion from the evidence. Such is
utterly useless for starting a fad or selling books to fat
people who would much rather buy a book and skim the first
few pages than lower their calorie intake.

https://paleodietforbeginner.com/best-paleo-diet-books/

The term 'paleo' is derived from the concept that humans evolved to eat and digest foods that had little if any 'post harvest' processing. IOW a hunter-gather type of diet. The idea has been 'modernized' to prescribe foods that have undergone as little processing as possible, basically fresh meats, fresh vegetables, and fresh fruits. The big no-no's in the paleo diet are processed sugars, processed grains, and processed dairy products. I'm not sure where John got the idea of "no such thing" as a paleolithic diet, while in the same sentence he writes

""palio people" had radically different
diets - which apparently they can identify from paleo remains in some
manner- depending on where they lived and ranged from nearly 100%
vegetable diets to mainly fish and/or animal protein diets

That - by definition - is the paleo diet. But john is correct that the diet had a great deal to do with the geographic location of the hunter-gather population under study. Those from more temperate to tropical climates ate a lot more fruits and vegetables than those from desert or arctic climates. As human physiology evolved, groups like the Inuit developed metabolic pathways that operate more in the ketosis range because they have little access to carbohydrates - a very different diet from the hunter gatherers who lived in areas with long growing seasons. This is one reason why the "ketogenic" diet fad is ill advised unless you have some genetic history with populations that existed for centuries eating minimal carbohydrate-based foods - the metabolic pathways to work in the ketosis range need to develop, and in some cases may never be really effective based on one's genetic predisposition. It isn't hard to find cases where people have ended up in the hospital because they quit
carbs cold-turkey.

That said, even the current iteration of paleo diets are off the mark. Hunter-gatherers would first eat the soft-tissue parts of their kills - kidney, liver, brains, etc. - This has been proven by the forensic analysis John alluded to. The soft tissues are vastly more nutrient-dense than muscle tissue. The wild fruits and vegetables back then were more nutrient dense as well. You can't _really_ be on a paleo diet unless you eat soft tissue parts of animals and wild fruits and vegetable. I've met a few militant paleo dieters, and even they don't scour the butcher shop for soft-tissues. Of course, this is more than a little impractical. If you're lucky, you can afford free-range meats, and good luck finding non-farmed fresh vegetables (even the ones you grow in your own garden are derivatives of farmed vegetables). Even 'organic' fruits and vegetables are significantly less nutrient dense than wild versions.

So is the "paleo" diet really "paleo"? no. However, it's just common sense to understand that a dinner with grilled fresh lean meat and fresh vegetables is far better than a whopper with fries. I follow the model in the Paleo Diet for Athletes book, with modifications to suit my lifestyle. I have a 20 oz coffee every morning with about a tablespoon of light cream and a teaspoon of sugar. I drink a lot more alcohol than I should. I have regular servings of rice and potatoes . Most days I have a couple of mugs of tea with what amounts to a total of about a tablespoon of honey. Cream, sugar, alcohol, rice, and honey are all on the paleo no-no list. Potatoes are as well depending on whose version of 'paleo' you read.

The idea is moderation. The vast majority of my meals are just a cooked fresh meat and cooked fresh vegetables. I run and ride a total of about ten hours per week, so I can easily process the stuff that our paleolithic ancestors had little access to. Covert Bailey was a biochemist who wrote a couple of books in the 80's called "Fit or Fat". He approached the idea of dieting from the perspective of biochemistry. It's highly entertaining and extremely informative, but the message was clear - Eat fresh foods that underwent as little processing as possible, and exercise. Sound familiar? This was nearly 20 years before "paleo" came out.

The last key point is what Andrew wrote about simply reducing intake. It's against the laws of physics to gain weight if your caloric expenditure exceeds your caloric intake, and this applies even people with severe digestive disorders. For the average person with no underlying pathologies, just stop eating when you feel full.


Given the above I guess most developing Asian countries have a "paleo"
diet. I can't for example even remember when I ate any preserved food
- well except for rice which is simply threshed and dried so I guess
it might be considered "preserved". But veggies and meat? Fresh from
the market.
--
Cheers,

John B.