In aus.bicycle on Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:55:40 +1000
Duncan wrote:

An upright is a lot taller and is wide at the level of a drivers eyes.

You know we used to have a sports car that had a roof at about the
level of most car's doorhandles. Didn't seem to be a problem.

People see all the time. what they don't do, as you said, is process.

Which isn't about how much they can see. People seem to have very
little problem seeing the light bar on top of cop cars for example.

Ages ago I had a motorcycle with a white fairing. Amazing how visible
that was. Got quite a few comments about "thought you were a cop
bike".

Not everybody is going to be vocal about it.

I judge by the actions, not the words. Do I have near misses? No.
Do I have swerves or props, or close passes? No.


In the rare case I mentioned where a bike is 100% obscured it may be a valid
excuse. I didn't mean to suggest that otherwise it was a valid excuse at
all.

So "he has a point" isn't "what he says is valid". OK.

It's been my experience that people process the bent just fine. If I
ride with my brain in gear, act predictably, and don't put myself in
silly positions.

It's not a risk I'd personaly be prepared to take on a regular basis and I'm
not known for living a risk free life..

You do ride a bicycle hmm? So you think the difference between a high
racer and an upright in traffic is that much? Obviously it's not an
opinion I share.

I also think that it's a very funny one, in that the vast majority of
people consider 2 wheels of any kind, powered or no, too dangerous.
To argue that to ride an unpowered upright two wheeler is OK, but one
that has the seat a foot lower isn't, is odd to me.

I presume you consider BMX and lowslung trials type bikes killers too?


What people are supposed to do is irrelevant when your saftey is on the
line. It doesn't take too many experiences to realise that a significant
portion of drivers are not paying enough attention. By decreasing your
visibility you're dramaticaly increasing the number of people who aren't
paying enough attention to see you.

My "visibility" is either "the light bounces off me and
hits their retina" or it is "They process me". THere's no doubt the
light bounces off me and hits their retina, so it's about processing.

In 20 years of riding 2 wheelers with 2 traffic crashes in that time
(one a 5kmh nudge from behind, the other my own fault due to poor
braking skills) I have some idea of how to tell if they are processing
me.

I've had many more fail to process on the uprights - powered and
unpowered - than on the bent so far. I've had many more miles on them
too, so it's not particularly valid. But I do feel that experience
trumps theory in this case. So tell ya what.... YOu ride a
highracer bent in traffic for 1000km or so and get back to me.
traffic for 1000

Zebee