On 1/28/2018 12:03 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 21:21:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 8:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

One of our customers, an old friend, was
riding just in front of that mayhem, inches
from death. The tourist he had just passed
was killed.

Cycling sure seem more violent in the US.
I don't know what the stats are.

Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated.

Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles
of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles.
In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles.

So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one
negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take
you to ride 10 million miles?

Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have
bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night,
using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from
sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent
riders should have much lower risks.

We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above
numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when
giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is
YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it
or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks
in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!)

The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a
disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying
commercial airlines.

In France,
I hear that in the process of getting a driver
license a not insignificant part is spent on
how to respond to cyclists sharing the road.

There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving
education in America. I'm part of one such group.

But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's
license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy
- in fact, stupidly easy.

But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles

Yep. And from the same source: "Pedestrian motor vehicle crash deaths
have increased 46 percent since reaching their low point in 2009 and
account for 16 percent of crash fatalities."

Watch your step!

In reality I suspect that the only politically acceptable of reducing
bicycle - auto crashes would be some sort of financial solution,
similar to the Thai system that "The big guy is wrong", which in
essence is a general traffic rule that subject to contrary evidence
the largest vehicle in the crash is deemed to be in the wrong. The
actual law is far more complex but in practice of one were to hit a
bicycle and kill the rider the auto would be responsible for all costs
- bicycle replacement or repair, all medical costs including
hospitalization and rehabilitation costs, etc., in the event of death
all funeral costs and so on.

A note here, A sister in law who was a collage level teacher had
funeral costs of 200,000 baht.... in an economy where minimum wages
are 30 baht a day.

Failure to agree with this would result in a criminal charge (causing
death by auto, or some such title) that WILL result in a prison
sentence - from reading the news apparently 3 - 5 years per death.

In U.S. terms something like an increase in driver's license fees or
maybe, as I believe that the U.S. has mandatory insurance, an increase
in insurance fees.

Initially this seems a bit unfair but the effect is to make larger
vehicles reluctant to hit a smaller one which does have a rather
dramatic effect of traffic.

A month or so I, solely through stupidity, I ran a stop light on a 4
lane intersection and found myself whizzing across four lanes of very
active traffic at about 30 kph. Cars were screeching their brakes to
avoid me.

And I agree with the concept. As I've mentioned before, we were staying
with (new) friends in Zurich, and they took us on a walking tour of the
city. At that time, they had just passed a "strict liability" law like
you describe. Our friends told us it absolutely transformed the
experience of walking (and IIRC bicycling) around the city.

Isn't one of our newer posters from there? Any comment?

--
- Frank Krygowski