I have no idea what you want but if you sit quietly and
ponder that, or go for a quiet dawn ride away from people to
collect your thoughts, any imaginable thing can be built
just as you wish:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd13sr4.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/ken%27s.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/WFT04C.JPG

With any wheel size, tire width, mudguard/rack provisions,
disc or caliper or cantilever/V brakes, Q/R hubs or through
axles, top tube level or slopey, any handlebar position, BB
high or low, kickstand plate added or not, and so on.

Standard touring models are cheap because they are popular
high volume products:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...volpe-classic/

Which of course means outlier cyclists with special tastes
support the custom frame builder industry. Choice is good!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


On 5/31/2018 2:57 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Duane wrote:

So you should be asking about touring bikes,
not randonneuses. And you shouldn't be
complaining that bikes meant for brevets
aren't equipped the way you want them to be
in order to do loaded touring.

The best bike I have seen to this date for my
projected purposes has been the "VSF
Fahrradmanufaktur TX-Randonneur Shimano 105
30-speed", only it is too expensive (but I can
put away for a couple of months, for sure).

The second best bike is the "Fuji Touring Road
Bike 2018", only that by default doesn't have
lights, fenders or front racks, and the
32 tires is a question mark. Heck, I don't know
if it even has a kickstand! Doesn't seem like
my kind'a stuff at all...

So to call it from those two bikes, it'd seem
I'm looking for a randonneur for sure, and,
with some extra work/modifications,
a touring bike.

And what do I know, perhaps those modifications
even turns the Fuji into a randonneur? Or just
what exactly are the definitions?

"A touring bike is a bike..."

"A randonneur bike is a bike..."

?