On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 8:20:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 12:15:36 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:54:40 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-12 07:24, wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 5:45:38 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf






This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest number of bicycle travel in terms of
distance, and the highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field
for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and lifting
the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would be willing
to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly along a
county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think buses
are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for some people
they are merely inconvenient but for most people buses are not
useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday with
a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a distant bike
trail. But when we first moved to town and had just one car, I
looked into riding a bus the seven or so miles to work. It would
have taken far longer than just biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434




"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence
to every destination is ridiculous.

And my point is that IF you have separate bicycle facilities like
that car drivers again believe you don't belong on their roads.


My experience is that some of them believe that anyhow regardlesss of
whether there is a bike path or not. Those are the ones deliberately
passing closely or speeding up to the cyclist and the lean on the horn..

Out of curiosity, how many is that?

Here, and I am aware that it a totally different culture and different
laws, I can't even remember when anyone seemed to deliberately pass
closely or leaned on the horn.

Not to say that people haven't passed me closely but no closer then
they did the car in front of me, and this close passing is always in
very heavy traffic at an almost crawling speed. And yes people
occasionally blow the horn but it is more of a "I see you" sort of
beep.

Is traffic in the U.S. really as bad as you portray?

A couple of blocks from my home is a store. A bike lane runs along the curb and then ends abruptly a hundred feet from the intersection. This is a right turn must turn right lane plus there are four driveways in and out of the shopping center.

So I ride in the middle lane which ends up going straight, instead of in the dangerous bike lane. Almost every time I do that I have people whom I would BLOCK if I were in the bike lane screaming at me to get in the bike lane.

You have to picture this - people are driving in the #2 lane and at the last second pulling into the #3 lane simply to give me grief. And since this is only a couple of blocks from my house I go this way almost every ride.

Going in the opposite direction is almost the same situation. The #2 lane is a right turn only and people will drive in that with a perfectly clear #1 lane just to pass close to me. Again - EVERY TIME that I go out with only rare exceptions. They will do this even when you can look ahead and see a heavy truck blocking part of the right lane.

So don't use the excuse that this doesn't happen too frequently. Every ride I go on at lease once I get a close pass of someone yelling at me to get out of the way. And even when I'm in a bike lane - people driving and the road bending right will NOT stay in their lane - they will pull almost to the curb crossing completely over the bike lane.

The bike lanes are directly adjacent to the parking lane and an SUV or a two door door will totally cover the bike lane and traffic will speed up in order to force you to stop instead of allowing you to go around the blockage.

Sunday on two occasions cars almost turned left into me because they misjudged my speed. And I was wearing a dayglow green jacket.

None of Joerg's complaints are unfounded. Because I refuse to be pushed off of a public road doesn't mean that these sorts of things do not frighten the overwhelming majority of people that could be bike riders.

I find it offensive to put up with these things every ride and have people on this group pretend that it's all in my or Joerg's head. The only thing I can think is that people that do not see this are either blind or stupid..

That's fair. Traffic can be miserable, but as a practical matter, you're not going to get separate bike paths everywhere. You're going to have to get on the road sometime, even in Amsterdam. So, that means cars and bikes have to learn the rules -- as you know. Frank has a point about education, and maybe he also has balls of steel and can ride anywhere without fear. Not me. There are places where I say "f*** that!" and take a side path or some other less convenient route. Sometimes it's not about fear and more about being unpleasant. OTOH, some bike paths are a PITA, and I prefer the road which others find "scary." Some people have an amazingly low threshold for scary.

-- Jay Beattie.