Vincent Patrick Wrote:
In a strictly off-topic conversation, Tamyka Bell wrote:

Vincent Patrick wrote:

Tamyka Bell wrote:

Vincent Patrick wrote:

Tamyka Bell wrote:

Exactly - students are expected to pay back HECS debts, and
even
students on PhD scholarships will as postdocs contribute tax
(in a
higher bracket than from their undergrad degree) - oh except
that
with no incentive to keep scientists in Australia, most head
overseas...

PhDs in a higher tax bracket? You obviously don't mean the PhD
scientist I
employed who previously had a job stacking comics. :-(

Well, at least he had a job. His basic science degree would've got
him
the dole.

Tam

I think his non-PhD mates had gotten jobs years before.

But were they employed as scientists?
Or were they employed as consultants and in generalist APS roles?

The point is that they had jobs. You might sneer, but even public
service
jobs may be well paid jobs. I believe the public service typically
offers
a better career path than comic shops, which is relevant to the pay
issue
being discussed. Doing a PhD does not automatically place you into a
higher tax bracket, and so PhD "tuition fees" are not necessarily paid
back
in that way. Not that I think universities should be able to charge for
PhD "tuition", but let's not go there.

For your jump to scientists, it really depends on how you
define 'scientists', and 'consultants'. Just like in the medical world,
there is an overlap between consultants and scientists. Or in the
bicycle
world, where someone can be both a road and mountain bike rider. Just
to
confuse things more, would you classify a PhD-research-type working for
an
industrial company as a scientist or not?

Mostly they are deluded fools, those who do PhDs for the money.
Oops.
:-)

agreed. There is no money in science in Australia. For your wages
or
for your research. Thus those who do it for the science end up
overseas.

Yes and no. If as you state there is no money for science wages in
Australia (and better wages overseas), then the logic consequence would
be
that those seeking money would go overseas, and those content with less
money would remain in Australia. The alternative implication, that
there
is no science in Australia, is specious rather than strictly true.

This thread has not only become a bit philosophical, but is way off
topic.
It is interesting, though, that there are so many IT or PhD types on
this
list.

Cheers,

Vince
The young bloke who is my nextdoor neighbour has a BSc, PhD, MBA and
BMW 320i (a recent wagon model)*. Switched from a job doing research
at uni to being CEO of a private company developing medical technology.


He spends a lot of time overseas chasing financial backers for his
company because there is bugger all financial support in Australia.

*indicates a scientist who is doing OK financially (but he can't be
doing that well because his bikes are nowhere near as good as mine
)

SteveA


--
SteveA