"Blackblade" wrote in message ...
It is relatively safe. 1.54 injuries per thousand exposures
for Mountainbiking vs between 10.6 and 19.8 for rugby. You are 10 times
(on average) more likely to be injured playing rugby than mountainbiking.
Edward Dolan wrote:
Who knows what is being counted as "exposures". Your statistic
aside, it is NOT safe. That is the bottom line, especially in view of my many
reports which show just how stupid most of the accidents are. In fact, it is
almost impossible to bike on a hiking trail and not have an accident. Your
statistic is irrelevant to what is being discussed here.
So, you are critiquing a report from the British Medical Journal as to whether their methodology on exposures is correct. This despite the fact that they have no axe to grind .. they just treat people who get injured.
Instead of reading a report on numbers, why not read some reports from doctors who have to treat these morons in the ER.
Then, in the next sentence, you're happy to reference completely unscientific anecdotal reports and put that up as a counter argument ? No wonder you keep losing the argument.
There is littlie to no science involved in any of this. However, there is some common sense involved. You should try it sometime.
The simple reality is that you're just plain wrong ... the vast majority of rides no one gets hurt or injured ... whether on singletrack trails or wider fire roads.
The simple reality is that almost everyone gets hurt, but maybe not bad enough for the ER. I have gone on hundreds of hikes and nary a scratch. I once tried to ride my bike on a hiking trail near Aspen, Colorado and nearly killed myself.
The reports you have deigned to provide are nowhere near the level
of being significant ... there are 50 million mountainbikers in the US alone and
the trail network is vast.
Who knows what the vast majority of those mountain bikers are
doing. Most of them are riding very sedate bike paths and streets no
doubt.
No, Ed, don't add in conjecture and expect me to treat it as anything other than your opinion. You don't know what the vast majority of riders are doing ... and, critically, you don't actually care either ... you're just flailing around again trying to justify an unjustifiable position.
You think all those 50 million mountain bikes are being used on hiking trails? Don’t be ridiculous. The vast majority of mountain bikes are being ridden on roads. Only a small minority of crazies ride their bikes on hiking trails.
Why do you think injury rates are quoted relative to amount of
activity ... as in Injuries per 1,000 exposures ? Nothing in this world is
'safe' as in ... there is no risk.
As I mentioned before, thousands die in their bathrooms and
falling down stairs ... not because it is "unsafe" to take a shower or walk down
the stairs but because billions of people do it every day.
But it is only a few bikers who are riding hiking trails and
their injuries and deaths are out of all proportion to what anyone else is ever
doing (except maybe those rugby players). The fact remains that hikers do not
have many injuries at all whereas bikers have numerous injuries. There is no
comparison.
Actually, no, if you bothered to read anything outside your small circle you would find out that there are appreciable risks to hiking too .... as I said earlier, nothing is 'safe'. See here http://www.besthealthdegrees.com/health-risks/
“I have gone on hundreds of hikes and nary a scratch. I once tried to ride my bike on a hiking trail near Aspen, Colorado and nearly killed myself.” – Ed Dolan
So your fundamental proposition, that mountainbiking is particularly dangerous, is simply and provably ... WRONG.
Your numbers are wacky. Most injuries never get reported to anyone except to other crazy bikers. They glory in machismo, as long as it doesn’t get them killed.
It's not risk free ... but it's not particularly risky either and not, as you no doubt think, massively more risky than hiking.
I see I have introduced some doubt in your mind. Cycling a trail in alpine terrain is extremely dangerous. It is possible that cycling on the flats is not so dangerous and may not be life threatening, although cyclists can manage even that without too much trouble.
When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when
they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to
mountain bikers!
I say good riddance to bigoted old fools who think they own the trails and can dictate to everyone.
It doesn't matter who owns the trails. It is how they are managed for best use that matters. We old fools are going to see to it that bikers like you are going to be gone from the trails sooner than you think. You should read about some of the disputes that are taking place in California, ever the bellwether for the whole world.
One example of that among hundreds:
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 22:20:14 -0700
Subject: Fwd: [RC] [Endurance Tracks] Urge Calif. State Parks to Reconsider a
Proposal That Would Curtail Bike Access
From: Karen Sullivan
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Grass_Valley_Girl
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 18:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RC] [Endurance Tracks] Urge Calif. State Parks to
Reconsider a Proposal That Would Curtail Bike Access
To:
Cc: Barbara White
I have been watching IMBA's high-profile push to equestrian groups online
and on Facebook pages to protest this new CA State Parks trail policy
language - IMBA is trying to trick equestrians to protest something that is
actually good for horsemen. No, it will not limit horses to any trails
currently open to them. Yes, it will limit mt. bikers' access and trails
that are unsafe for other users. Yes, it will save taxpayers scads of money
by not having to replacing any more "no bikes" signs. Yes, it will make it
easier for Rangers to cite bikers who are poaching and riding illegally. I
am going to write to Alex Stehl and Gen. Jackson for a positive YES to the
new language. Anything to get the bikes to stop illegally and unsafely
poaching the hiker-horse trails...and this new language will help do it.
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 1:26:15 PM UTC-7, Barbara White wrote:
Local mountain bikers and the international bike industry organization,
IMBA, are trying to get equestrians to join them in their fight to open all
trails to bikes. This will only hurt equestrians, and they are implying
that horses will be closed out. This is NOT TRUE. Actually, trails already
designated for horsemen will stay that way and cannot be changed without a
lengthy, public process. CA State Park people are tired of mountain bikers
poaching trails, and this will mean that they can ride on bike-permitted
trails only with signage that states "Bikes Allowed." This is excellent for
hikers and horsemen. It is excellent for tax payers who are paying for the
replacement of all the stolen and vandalized "No Bikes" signs. Bikers won't
steal signs that say "Bikes Allowed." IMBA wants the trails to default to
everyone, including bikes, unless prohibited, and is blanketing CA State
Parks with their emails and form letters.
Mountain bikes are causing huge problems in many areas of CA. I know of
two longstanding endurance rides that are no longer held because of them,
as well as many multi-use trails where equestrians will no longer go. I
have had two collisions with bicycles while riding a horse. Where it is
safe, riding on multi-use trails is appropriate and fun. However, many of
the CA State Parks trails are mountainous single tracks, on cliffsides,
with no line of vision. These trails should not be defaulted to everyone
who wants access, including horsemen.
Write your letter of SUPPORT to California State Parks for the new
proposed language in its Public Resources Code which reads: "Unless
designated by the Department, all trails are open to pedestrians and closed
to all other uses."
Remember, horses will be allowed where they are now, no changes.
Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain bikers!
“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"
Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.
Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?
Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great