On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:17:29 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 3:46:22 PM UTC-5, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Monday, November 11, 2013 8:26:00 PM UTC-8, Clive George wrote:



Shouldn't that be a give way rather than stop? That's the way

roundabouts are supposed to work, and why they're a good junction design.



Yes. I think the stop signs went in for traffic calming and pedestrian issues. One could certainly argue that "yield" signs are more appropriate -- and more common even here in PDX.



Speaking of stop signs for traffic calming: In Ohio, at least, my understanding is that there are certain "warrants" necessary to justify a stop sign. If a stop sign is put in only to calm traffic, it's considered "unwarranted." Any vehicle operator can use that fact as defense against a ticket..



This is all "IIRC" and "IANAL" of course. But we do have some that meet that description, in a residential street which (like mine) gets a large number of rude rat-runners.



The controlling of such MFFY motorists does seem to be a difficult problem in the U.S. No matter what measure is proposed (lower speed limits, stop signs, traffic cameras, speed humps, etc.) someone will always come up with "reasons" it must not be done. Many people are highly devoted to preserving their (assumed) constitutional right to drive fast wherever they please..



- Frank Krygowski

Now that you're retired, Frank, here is your homework assignment: can a "road authority" (e.g. city) do whatever the hell it wants in terms of placing stop signs and other traffic control devices? See http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/810.030 (Generally, Oregon Revised Statutes Ch 810). Start with Oregon because it's the only place I ride regularly.

I get tired of the incessant diddling with basic rules done by the City of Portland -- following all the sinage is like doing the Hokey-Pokey. I'm always wondering if the City can really make me ride up and down sidewalks, into the path of trains and buses, etc., all in the name of "bike lanes." http://tinyurl.com/q4vcyo2 Look to the right of the orange street car. The bike lane jumps you on to the sidewalk right at the kiosk, into a crowd of waiting passengers and then down the sidewalk and into the intersection right in front of the train. Woohoo -- what's next? Alligators?

-- Jay Beattie.