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Old August 10th 17, 03:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Default Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition Bicycle Summit and the Failureof Vehicular Cycling.

On 2017-08-09 16:40, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 2:28:42 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-09 14:10, sms wrote:
On 8/9/2017 12:58 PM, Joerg wrote:

As for those 60% I side with Jay. Some of those will start
cycling once we have a decent infrastructure and I have seen
proof of that. However, the majority of the "interested but
concerned" will find excuses. Oh, it's too cold. Oh, it's too
hot. It could start raining, see that cloud there on the
horizon? And so on.

That 60% is a big group. If there were infrastructure like
Amsterdam or Montreal, you could get a lot of them to ride. If
it's only green paint then you're right. And it's not getting
them to make 100% of their commutes or shopping trips or
whatever, even just a small amount is better than nothing.

The point the two speakers made was that you won't even get ANY
of that 60% unless you take steps to get them comfortable riding,
and the vehicular cycling philosophy, while it may work for up to
7%, is not going to get any of the other 93% out of their cars.

Like Jay, you were probably talking to the 33% and not the 60%.



Must have been at least some of the 60% group because there was
partial success. "You mean, there is a bike path after we hacking
it through the field towards Folsom? Really?" ... "Yeah, promise.
Only 500 yards of residential roads, then bike paths all the way to
Sacramento" ... "Ok, I'll go".


The American River Trail is a linear park -- probably a pretty ride
but not too efficient with a 15mph speed limit, dog walkers,
sight-seers, wobbly kids, etc.



It's really a bike path, was always meant to be but then mutated into an
MUP. However, people adhere to the "Walk left - ride right" rule quite well.

Then we have this bike path which connects to my former work place:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-3gnLIUum0

No speed limit! Riders much slower than 15mph should ride AFRAP here and
be prepared to have others blow by race car style.


http://www.americanriverbiketrail.co...l-speed-limit/



Got to know where Smokey is.


I'm sure it has attracted some commuters, but anyone willing to ride
to Sacramento and back is probably not in the "60%."


At least some were in the 60%. We often get to talk to each other.
Sometimes while riding, like when people pick up a tune from my MP3
player and want to know what it is, on breaks, helping with a repair or
lately while gazing at the "progress" with the rock slide.


Some MUPs are mostly used by bikes, and those can be convenient. We
have some dedicated bike trails that are convenient (mostly along
highways), although the I-205 bike trail and parts of the Springwater
(MUP) are pretty scary now. Here's a fine fellow who can help you
with some repairs!
http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/u...ops1-skeel.jpg


We now have that problem in Sacramento with cyclists getting attacked
and all. They have a new mayor who IMHO doesn't have a real clue
regarding the situation and by his promises of free housing and free
whatever has attracted lots more homeless folks. Meaning many cyclist
still use that path but not all the way into town anymore.

We have a bike path up here called the El Dorado Trail. Homeless there
were never aggressive towards me but, no surprise there, their numbers
have greatly dwindled. I guess they migrated to Sacramento and the city
leaders simply don't get it.


Segregated facilities may attract some riders, but it's hard to tell
-- particularly since many facilities were created as part of much
larger housing construction projects, including the facility I
constantly malign in the south waterfront.



It's not very hard to tell once you take time and talk to people.
Because I am self-employed I have the luxury of being able to take a few
hours off here and there to ride. Sometimes I ride full bore, other
times I take it easy and occasionally talk to other riders. I met people
who bought a house in Folsom because of the bike path system. That was
their stated #1 reason. Mostly Bay Area retirees, meaning people with
lots of disposable income - ka-ching!


https://www.southwaterfrontdental.co...waterfront.jpg
All of those condo towers are new.



Eeuuuw! In Germany they call that something like grain elevator living
or residential silo.


... So is the OHSU Hospital complex
and all of its employees. Sure, nobody road on S.W. Moody 20 years
ago . . . but look now! What they don't mention is that 20 years
ago, that area was an abandoned shipyard and mini-storage. I and five
other people rode through there with any regularity. It was very
convenient back then. Not so much now with the traffic and "cycle
track." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HpCGyr61Do&t=47s


Just another confirmation why urban living is not my thing and never
will be.


The most heavily used facilities are just on-street bike lanes.
https://bikeportland.org/2016/05/04/...o-essay-182506



Thanks, I have bookmarked that because there are Europeans (and some
folks here ...) who are of the firm belief that a decent mode share can
never be achieved in America.

A place that is more extreme is Davis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHdbIhL0eso


No, that's not an event. That's normal bike traffic. But on-street
bike lanes are boring and so un-Amsterdam-ish. We need style! We
need panache! The "60%" will not use a bland bike lane.


There are probably some 60-percenters among those many riders but yes,
some want to be totally cradled all the time. They typically cart their
bikes to the bike path, unload and then ride. We have mixed-mode
commuters who do this. Better than nothing because they at least shave
off half of the usual car commute and have shifted that part to their
bicycles.

Occasionally I also do that because there are many people who absolutely
positively will not cycle on roads. But they ride and some are quite
sporty so they don't hold me back. I normally rather ride right from our
garage but that requires many miles of county road cycling to get to
"the good stuff".

--
Regards, Joerg

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