On 2016-12-19 18:59, Phil Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Mon, 19 Dec 2016
13:57:12 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2016-12-17 21:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/17/2016 5:22 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-12-17 14:05, Phil Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Fri, 16 Dec 2016
13:51:14 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2016-12-16 09:50, wrote:

[...]

... They have the luxury of getting to work
rapidly and then sitting at a desk for the rest of the day. And if
you eat some protein you can limit the muscle damage.

Where I live is different. If I get a job in the area I want I could
be commuting 50 km each way. And because of the traffic I could even
be faster counting both the stop and go traffic and the more direct
path I could take as a bicyclist.


That's over 30mi each way. A lot. Not sure if I'd do that but if not
many hills probably yes.

The furthest I've commuted was a daily trip of 21 miles each way, but
I know of one cyclist who commuted about double that for several
years, from Dunstable to central London.


We hired away a UK engineer, a very skinny guy. He had a commute
somewhere north of 30mi, also near London. This guy rode a bike every
day even in the driving rain. When he and his family arrived here in the
US he no longer rode. Considering the absence of bike facilities this
was fully understandable back then since that also caused me to stop
riding.

When did you hire this guy? Where, exactly, did he ride in Britain?


In 1998. I forgot the exact route.

There weren't ANY in the UK that long in 1998.
Zero, none, zilch, that were even half that long!


As I have said before side roads, residential roads and agricultural
roads with little vehicle traffic are quite acceptable in lieu of bike
paths. Smart cyclists tend to find those.




I'm curious how he found a 30 mile commuting route near London that had
a significant proportion on bike facilities. What were they?


It's too long ago and we haven't remained in contact after our company
was acquired.

Bike facilities were not his main concern. However, he noticed exactly
the same effect that I noticed after moving here from Europe. American
motorists are generally more polite than European ones but unfortunately
also way less attentive to road conditions and the driving job in
general. With the advent of fancier cell phones that has become much
worse. On my ways down in the valley it doesn't matter to me as a
cyclist because the bike paths are mostly so far segregated that I don't
even hear the traffic. On the way up here, very different story.

We get the same cellphones here, and as you accurately state, road
manners are generally worse, not better - and lanes narrower!
I would suggest that there was some other reason for his stopping
cycling than the road conditions or the amount of cycling specific
infrastructure.
Maybe the change in climate and unsettling effects of the move broke
his fitness below that necessary to make the commute, and he lost the
habit. Maybe it was further or hillier (London isn't very hilly at
all), or maybe it was just the low cost of cars and gas in the US.


No hills down there either, only where I live and cyclists in my area
simply become used to them. I merely repeated what he commented.


There are plenty of possible reasons/excuses beyond safety arguments -
particularly if it's being compared to a ride into or around London,
which has the worst (and worst behaved) motor traffic in the UK!


It wasn't to the inner city or even close. Home and workplace were
outside the city.



Now that bike infrastructure is gradually being put in people start
riding bikes. Including myself. I guess for the auto industry that is
not a good thing because my yearly car mileage is down to 1200mi. 4000mi
on the bikes.

Somehow, I don't think General Motors is going to notice. See
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/data/10315

"2016 experienced the largest annual increase in VMT since tracking
began in 1971."


I meant my contribution to the auto industry. It is quite possible that
our current vehicles which are both around 20 years old might live many
more decades. Like the 1954 pickup truck my MTB buddy has.

Naturally, the vast majority of our neighbors does not live like that
and rides just about every mile inside a car. Sometimes even if it's
just a few hundred yards.

I noticed that in the US, and it mostly seemed to be pure habit.


I'd use a stronger expression: Laziness.


The company I used to work for with an office in Tulsa used to send me
out a few times a year, and people in the building where the office
was located were alarmed at my walking to work - from the hotel NEXT
DOOR! Utterly ridiculous, as I actually traveled further vertically
after entering the building than I did horizontally to reach it - so
much so, that I used the stairs some of the time, just for the
exercise. If I'd had a bicycle out there, I'd have used it for going
out in the evenings, but it was easier to get hold of a car (the
office manager out there used to lend me her son's z28 Camaro, in
return for service advice (the suspension was best described as a
project!), which got less necessary as things got fixed and he learned
how to look after it.


A Z28 is real fun to drive.


When you can get a drivers permit at so young an age and so easily as
in all the states I know about, ....


It's changing. The recent generation is know for a serious lack of
interest in obtaining a driver's license. They are happy in their little
virtual cyber world. Sad.


... nearly all types of business have
drive through facilities, and they even build big parking lots at
schools, driving to school becomes a status thing (and the first
personal and private space that most teenagers enjoy!), people stop
using anything else, and it's hard to get them back into the habit.


The topper and this was in the early 80's: We returned a long term
rental car. The rental place's owner was completely stunned when we
presented the invoice for changing oil and air filter. We obviously were
the first to think of such stuff and he profoundly thanked us, then
handed us a check. The place had no cash but he sad the bank is right
across the street. However, drive-through only. We came back "Hey, can
we have that car for another couple hundred yards and five minutes to
cash the check?" ... of course we could. It was weird.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/