On 2006-09-10, Artoi wrote:

[ Trek 1000 vs Pilot 1.0 ]

I really don't understand the practical difference in terms of riding
position b/n the two. Doesn't matter if the headset is higher than the
seat post and what angle the top tube is at, with the way how people
typically fit it, the seat is invariably significantly higher than the
handle bar. The top tube angle is almost irrelevant as it's the handle
bar level and seat height that determines that so called "comfort"
position.

You're right that the seat and handlebar position is what matters.
You're missing the effect that frame design has on the handlebar
position.

The Pilot and similar bikes have a sloping top tube because the head
tube is taller than usual relative to the top tube length and standover.
That, plus the long steerer that's normal on such bikes, means that the
handlebars can be set quite a bit higher.

For instance, before I got my Pilot I used to ride an old Sekai. The two
bikes are similar in basic frame geometry: seat tube is within 1/4",
effective top tube is within 1/2", and standover is close enough that I
don't notice a difference.

For all that similarity, with the Sekai's quill stem at full extension,
the handlebars on the Pilot are about 3 inches higher. It might *just*
be possible to make up that difference with a really tall quill stem,
but as far as I know threadless stems with that kind of rise just don't
exist.

You're right that the top tube angle doesn't have any direct effect on
comfort. However, it is influenced by things that do.