On 6/4/2017 7:16 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 14:53:56 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 2:58:38 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
http://www.designboom.com/technology/luca-agnelli-milano-bici-milan-electric-bicycles-04-18-2016/
http://www.agnellimilanobici.com
1950's retro style hybrid electric bicycle for the 70 year old
nostalgia aficionado, who wants a bicycle with power augmentation,
built onto a sprung mountain bike frame. Kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and gas tank are included.
It's everything I wanted in a bicycle when I was 15 years old.

I think your memory is going, Jeff.

I don't think so. There are many things I would rather forget, but my
bicycle preferences are not included.

At 15 you would already have been too smart to fall for this crap.

At 15, I was an aspiring juvenile delinquent, where my concept of the
ideal bicycle was defined as the model that would make the fastest
getaway.

"Because I'm only a journeyman antique furniture faker, whenever my
bikes look like **** or fall apart [as Doug Cimperman points out],
instead of fixing the problem, I leave it to bite the credulous
buyer in the balls, and build my next monstrosity."

Isn't that the current trend in product design? Customer tested
devices, usually at the customers expense. That's what crowd funding
is really all about. You get a small discount to be the first person
among your tribe to own a genuine defective prototype. I bought a few
of those on Kickstarter which I soon found badly implemented good
ideas. When first to market is what makes the profits, it's tempting
to sell an unfinished design or prototype just to shave off a few days
from the product release date. I suspect the supply of second
childhood 70+ year old bicycle collectors, that are into bicycle
nostalgia, and have the money to pay for an imported semi-custom
machine, is rather limited. Whomever gets there first, will probably
end up with the entire market.

Even if this bike doesn't fall apart, as Doug says, and plants the
rider on his face, there's another problem with that suspension.
It pivots the lower steering inclination around the bottom of the
head tube to compress a horizontal helical spring against the frame.
(...)

Have you ever considered the possibility that these bicycles were not
meant to be ridden? They have the look of a "show" bicycle, which is
meant to demonstrate the discerning taste of the buyer, to those who
have no taste. The photos are from "craft-works exhibition at stone
island showroom in via savona 54" which is apparently a clothing
fashion outlet in a Milan mall, not a bicycle showroom:
http://www.stoneisland.com

Notice that no prices are mentioned, which suggests that they are
outrageously high. The best part of the bicycles shown is the
(probably) powder coated paint job, which is certainly not worth
risking a ding or a paint flake by riding it on the streets.

The whole thing, if anyone ever manages to get it up to speed,
say downhill, that bike will switch from dangerous understeer to
lethal oversteer and back quite unpredictably, several times a second.

Well, when I was 15 years old, I rode around on something with a front
wheel that wobbled badly enough that steering was rather erratic.
However, since I didn't know that this was not normal, I simply
adapted and rider merrily and erratically down the sidewalk. Whomever
buys these bicycles is probably more concerned about how it looks than
how it rides.

Also, since these bicycles were made to be shown, not ridden, in the
unlikely event that someone actually tries to ride one, it will be
very very slowly. That's the only way to insure that the owners
riding companions can get a good look at the machine and are thus able
to contrive admiring comments. Therefore, I wouldn't worry much about
steering and mechanical difficulties.

Frankly, I wouldn't want a clown with such a poor grasp of
geometry as luca agnelli (his rendition of his name) to
"restore" any furniture I may sit on, never mind "design"
a bicycle I would (refuse to) ride.

No problem. If I end up with one, I won't let you ride it.

Personally, I like it, not because of the engineering or design, but
because it conglomerated into one machine, all the worst design
aspects of 1950's bicycles. Bicycle kitsch perhaps?
https://www.google.com/search?q=kitsch&tbm=isch

I ask for no more than competence. Is that really too much?

Careful what you ask for. It may not be what you really need or want.
In this case, anyone who demonstrates competence soon starts a dot com
company, gets involved way over his head, produces ever decreasing
quality products, gets sued by his stockholders, and ends up either
impoverished, or retired in opulent splendor after a government
bailout. Competence is not the road to quality products.




Gresham smiles from beyond the grave.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971