On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 8:23:25 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 10:18 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 8:08:25 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/2/2019 8:34 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 3:39:38 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 09:49:37 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 1:44:11 AM UTC+1, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 4:17:23 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/30/2019 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Should pro road racers use dropper posts?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/worldto...111819293.html

If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I believe a dropper seatpost in professional road bicycle racing might
be a safety benefit. Currently, racers descending a mountain will
frequently put their groin and belly and chest onto the top of the
toptube to become as aerodynamic as possible. This is a
somewhat/definitely unsafe position to control a bicycle when
descending. But with a dropper seatpost, the racer could get himself
into the low aerodynamic position, AND remain seated on the saddle.
Overall a much safer position to descend a mountain. So a dropper
seatpost would be an easy safety enhancement for professional
bicyclists. Who would be against increasing the safety aspect of
professional bicycle racing?

IMO, racers can do whatever is within the rules to win a race. But as I
said, it won't be long before anyone who makes a different choice than a
racer will be scorned, at least by some.

Scorned? Really? Maybe by some idiots, but in general?


Over the years, it's happened with lycra clothes, helmets, clipless
pedals, 6 then 7 then 8 then 9 then 10 then 11 cogs, index shifting,
STI, aero wheels, carbon fiber, aero frames...

Not over here. I heard that the US is a ****ed up country but this I can't believe.

Lou



Seems to me that the scorning comes from the other way around. Just check
the recent posts here about Di2.

I was flabbergasted too. Is Frank not frequently 'accusing' us of:
- being a victim of marketing,
- using parts that are unreliable without any experience with them himself,
- using equipment with un noticeable advantages/gain according to his standards.
- that we are non racers and we don't need any of the new stuff even if we are telling him that it makes our rides more pleasant,
- keep bugging us about wearing a helmet,

He has to show me one post where I mock about his choice of equipment. I think we are very nice to him. Concerning modern equipment Frank and John B are the Statler and Waldorf of rec.bicycles.tech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE

Lou

Are you arguing that you actually "need" electric shifting (for
example) in order to ride a bicycle? Or in my recent tirades, the
"need" for STI shifting to ride a bicycle?

I might comment, that in my usual 2 - 3 hour Sunday ride in Bangkok I
might shift 4 to 6 times. On the average that would be one shift every
30 minutes... Do I really "need" electric shifting?

Nope, and no one is saying you do.

Unlike your weekend ride around Bangkok, I'll shift three times or more just getting out of my parking garage as the driveway progressively steepens to 15% before emerging onto the street, and I'll shift a whole lot more riding home. I'm fine with cable actuated STI, but DT shifting would be a total drag since I often climb out of the saddle, and I hate sitting down and reaching for the next gear. Nobody here is going to tell me DT friction shifting is perfectly fine. Screw that.

Nope, and no one is saying you must think that.

I've moved on, and that does not make me a faddist, fashionista, pretender or anything else. In fact, the fashionistas are the retrogrouches who must remind everyone that they still use friction shifting or ride a penny farthing or wear tweed or ride an Eroica bike.

:-) You've implied an interesting definition: "Fashion (noun) - that
which is out of fashion."
Lou asked about who was mocking whom. Seems to me you've just mocked
the people who dare talk about satisfactorily using older technology. If
not, why the word "fashionista"?

I am mocking people who make it a point of pride to ride old stuff because it is somehow more authentic and makes them "real cyclists." Read the Eroica coverage -- riding old bikes is all part of the epic struggle to cover the mileage, and it gets the riders closer to the true cycling experience, etc., etc. https://pelotonmagazine.com/features/my-leroica-ride/ Really? Screw that. I'd rather have the untrue experience of riding a gravel bike with appropriate tires and suitable gears, including shifting that allows me to keep my hands on the bars as I bounce down the trail.

Well, that mindset exists in other realms. There are hunters who eschew
guns, and try to take deer using bow and arrow. (That movement initiated
mostly just for the challenge, and there was quite a battle before it
was made legal.)

There are folks who ski not by using chairlifts, but by grunting along
under their own power. Some of those people still slather carefully
chosen wax compounds on the bottom of their skis, changing them each
time conditions change. Can you imagine?

CX or AT skiing is a different sport than straight alpine skiing -- and AT and CX skis can be highly technical. AT skis, for example, are built for light weight, climbing speed and are used with skins that can also be very technical. https://www.switchbacktravel.com/best-backcountry-skis Not to mention that AT takes a lot more equipment, including beacons, probes, etc. These are not olde tymers recreating the past.

The skiing equivalent to retro bikes would be resort skiing on edgeless wood skis with leather boots and cable bindings. The actual real-life equivalent are the guys who want to yak at me on the lift about their 210cm Olin skis with 50mm waists and their first generation Look bindings and the best-ever Raichle rear-entry boots. They complain about wider, shaped skis as being "cheating." Okey-dokey. You go guy, and I love your bell bottom snow suit!

-- Jay Beattie.