On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote:
rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote:


Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so
logically if there no guns there would be no "killed".

I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that.

But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you
now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total
murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out?

The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned...
except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket
in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our
shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife is a danger.

Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't
legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to
slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men
seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.)

As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the
UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S.
5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to define murder
rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand.

Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30.

But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor?

I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates.

But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor
in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club,
whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is
extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun
laws in Thailand have on homicide rates.

As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S.
seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of
homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But!

According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for
analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths
attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December
2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects
that the total for 2017 will be 72,222.

It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say
somewhat less than urgent :-)

According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more
guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with
guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected
death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households.

And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the
14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families.

But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to
be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying.


We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the
next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?

You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of
course then guys in Texas were waving swords.

You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen
where you live?

Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers.

No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at
sidestepping, though.

Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a
day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you
live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?"

I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and
hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances
of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping
and injuring a couple dozen more?


--
- Frank Krygowski