On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 3:46:05 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-03 14:03, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:09:23 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-03 10:11, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 7:47:45 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-02 16:18, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 2:23:52 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-02 11:35, jbeattie wrote:


[...]


He made a split second error on
the queen stage of a very difficult race. He was chasing
to get back on and was confused by the support cars:

He remembers rounding the second last bend before his
crash. Then things took a dramatic turn for the worse.

“I just remember coming around that corner, it was one
of the first corners of the climb on the downhill side
and there was just a line of traffic up ahead.


This would have been a great time to apply the brakes.
Hard.

Probably, but better to be on the outside of the turn
looking across the apex planning his entry and exit. But he
was pushed out of line by a support vehicle. **** happens.


Right but when it does you need to react right then and there,
not seconds later.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda . . . the fact is that even a
pro-continental level rider can make a momentary mistake, and it
is easy in retrospect for spectators to say what should have been
done. Without getting into what Brammeier could have or should
have done, just throwing your weight back is not SOP for fast,
off-camber turns on a road bike.


It is SOP for any bike (other than recumbents, of course) when
facing a situation of potential impact. It's got nothing to do with
the turn, he knew he would not be able to make that turn anymore
and that there either would be a crash or lift-off straight out of
the curve and into the vegetation. Like in the video.

Several riders in the video have instinctively done it right. Why
do you think that is?

O.K. Let's review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdVMYo1H38

What "instinctively right?" All the riders who made it successfully
through the turn were in their saddles and riding in classic style --


sigh

Please get your glasses and try again. Then look, for example, at the
first two riders, 0:02min and at 0:05min. They are clearly behind the
saddle. The two that follow didn't get far enough behind and, not
surprisingly, ride a lousy line in the curve.


no bellies on the top tub, but off the back, etc., etc. Go to :07
for example, and the rider at :10 IMO, the rider with the best line
is at :17 starting far right and ending far left across the crown,
planted in his saddle, weight back but clearly on the saddle. No
Heine moves.


Get you glasses and check again.


Go to the slow-mo at 1:57 and look at their position.



They are slower.


... Then watch
when Brammeier comes into the frame at 2:08 -- something is going
horribly wrong. At one point, both wheels are off the ground, like
he's on a ski jump. He lands the front wheel.


Yes, he lost control of his bike well before entering the curve. Hard to
say why but without going behind teh saddle he may not have been able to
brake hard in order to slow down enough.


He gets the rear wheel
down at 2:11, tries to turn and high-sides before even hitting the
car. It was not a wall impact -- which would have been the outcome
had he taken a straight line. Turn, plant, high-side. In fact, at
2:11-2:12, he's almost got the bike traveling in the direction of the
turn -- but it's also going sideways by then and way too fast.


He is trying to get into the right impact position but remains too high.
When I had my impact into the side of a car I dropped way low and didn't
sail across (didn't want to crash into unkown stuff on the other side of
the car or end up impaled). Essentially the surprisingly pliable metal
of the door acted as my crash pillow. Got to make sure not to hit a window.


Now go to 4:00 and see the riders coming down the hill. Freeze the
first rider at 4:01 and note his position on the bike -- same with
rider No. 2. Now go to 4:14 and there is Brammeier approaching the
turn. At 4:15 he locks up his rear wheel, fish-tails and then
launches off the lip of the descending turn.


He was way too fast to begin with. At that point it was already over.


... Slow-mo of same: pause
at 7:21 to see the position of two successful riders -- pretty normal
position.


7:21min has no info, just some image tiles. It is not a problem to
remain seated the entire downhill ride _if_ your speed is adjusted to
conditions.

Correction 4:47. First and second riders hitting the turn. Position looks pretty normal to me, and maybe we're fighting over nothing. Getting weight back for straight line slowing before a turn is common -- but nobody is doing the hyper-Heine thing. That's not necessary. Again, look at the three riders at :17. The guy on the outside is classic -- practically straight outside leg, nice line into the turn, weight centered. He comes across the apex and has room to spare on the other side and probably would have carried even more speed through the turn if there weren't traffic. Brammeier ski-jumped over the top of the turn. Personally, I like the guy who threads his way around the outside of the turn, past the officials and spectators. "Excuse me, pardon me, I'm racing here . . . "




No belly on top tube, no Heine heinie. The bad sh**t
happens at 5:55. You can see that at 5:46 he's too far over to
rider's right and maybe pushed there by the car just ahead. Who
knows, but interference from support vehicles is not apparent at that
point.

The real story was the turn before the crash. Brammeier had too much
speed out of the prior right turn and because of support car or for
whatever reason, he was out of position for the immediate left an got
launched over the lip of that descending left turn. Land, stick it,
brake and high-side. Bummer.


Yes, he came around the prior curve already way too fast. If you then go
behind the saddle you can slow down much quicker but he didn't. It may
still not be enough to avoid a crash but it sure can make the crash less
severe.


I'm telling you, Guardsman is a killer and scary even in a car, and
the road surface near the top is ruined, near gravel asphalt -- and
15%. You climb just to get your ass kicked at the end.


I'd ride that on my MTB. Much better gearing for the climb and huge
hydraulic disc brakes. Also more trunk space for a thermos with homemade
IPA :-)

You'll need homemade IPA in Utah (assuming its legal to home brew). You're not going to get anything convincing on tap -- only in a bottle. I'm going there on Friday. What's amazing is that its hard to get into the brewpub near my son's (soon to be former) apartment. http://www.avenuesproper.com/ Totally unremarkable 4% on-tap IPA, but the place is always hopping.

-- Jay Beattie.