View Single Post
Old November 14th 14, 04:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
external usenet poster
Posts: 538
Default Our wildlands are not outdoor gymnasiums or amusement parks.

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

It is never best use to permit cycling and hiking on the

trail. If you weren't such a moron, you would understand

that simple

Why Ed ? That's just your opinion. Which I, for

one, don't share and I doubt too many others do either.

But your opinion is that of an Asshole Mountain Biker. In
other words, your opinion ain't worth ****!

Or, to phrase it differently, you can't tackle the logic so you resort to profanity and ad hominem ... again. Nice going Ed, I'm sure you'll convert thousands to your point of view with that approach /sarcasm.

When you endlessly repeat yourself that is all you are ever going to get. Learn how to move the conversation along.

The fundamental dichotomy facing us is either we open

more and more trails to suit single-use groups or ... we share. Sharing
creates some issues but unless we want to use up even more of the natural world
it has to be the preferred option.

The preferred option is to kick your dumb biker ass off of ALL
trails used by hikers.

I'm sure it is your preferred option ... and that's why I don't care one iota what you want anymore. With every utterance you show yourself as the entitled, hubristic, selfish and ignorant individual you are.

“When you endlessly repeat yourself that is all you are ever going to get. Learn how to move the conversation along.” – Ed Dolan

You have opined, again and again, that sharing isn't

possible. Since it works quite well in most locations I guess what you
should have written is that sharing isn't possible ... for you. And, given
that you have proven yourself selfish to the core, why the **** should anyone
care about you and your wants ?

The fact is that sharing does not work well anywhere, most
especially if trails become the least bit crowded. What a ****ing Dumb Asshole
you are!

Works fine in Swinley Forest, Porridge Pot, Minley Manor, Forest of Dean, Exmoor, Scotland .. and many other places I'm aware of.

It works fine for you, but not for hikers. Trust me on this, they hate your guts!

The land managers will have to be educated. For the

they are almost as dumb as you are.

You know something ? When everyone you're

speaking with, in a position of some authority, is telling you that you're wrong
and that you need to share ... they just might be right. You're not a
redoubtable missionary for the sanctity of the trails Ed, you're a selfish loner
who just wants what you want and b****r everyone else.

The land mangers are not only as dumb as you are, but they are
also cowards. They cave to whomever brings the most power to bear despite
whatever their original mission might have been. It is why even our National
Parks are forever in jeopardy of being ruined by fools like you.

But I thought you claimed that hikers were massively in the majority Ed ? I think you said that there were between 10,000 and 1,000,000 hikers for every biker. As such, surely you would have more power to bring to bear ?

As with everything under the sun organization is the key. There are of course many times more hikers than bikers and those numbers will tell in the end.

Or are you spouting nonsense again ?

Just as there is no
way that motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles can be

permitted on hiking trails
--- because of the conflicts of both means and purpose

which applies equally to
bikes. Too bad you can't grasp this most elementary

rationale. Until you do, you
might as well be whistling Dixie!

I agree, you can't have powered vehicles sharing

certain spaces because of the huge difference in power, weight and speed.
However, clearly, some spaces/places can be shared .. and should

Bicycles for hikers fall into the same class as motorcycles
and all-terrain vehicles. Trails are strictly for walkers.

No, Ed, trails are for people.

“Or are you spouting nonsense again ?” – your own words!

For the umpteenth time, who owns what is not


Of course it's relevant you idiot. If I own

something and have to pay for its' upkeep then I have certain rights. I am
not going to accept that I have to pay for something which a self-righteous
minority then informs me I cannot use because it doesn't happen to suit their

The public lands are being managed by governmental agencies
which have very specific missions which are written into law. National Parks and
Wilderness Areas are managed quite differently than National Forests and BLM
areas because of their different missions. The only idiot here, as usual, is
yourself ... and the land mangers who are not upholding their lawful

The National Parks Service mission statement says "the Service thus established shall promote and regulate the use of Federal areas known as national parks, monuments and reservations . . . by such means and measures as conform to the fundamental purpose of the said parks, monuments and reservations, which purpose is to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and the wild life therein and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations."

I don't read, in there, anything about preserving the chosen recreation of one Mr E Dolan. So, no, the land managers are staying true to their actual mission rather than the one you would like them to adopt.

The key phrase is “in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired”. I will admit I much prefer the Wilderness Area ethic compared to the National Park one.

lands with its trails must be managed for best use.

Trails are indeed my church
and the church of all hikers. It is not your church

because you do not regard it
as a church, but as a race track for your ****ing sport

of mountain biking.

The land managers are doing their best to manage for

genuinely best use, as defined by the clearly stated objectives of the parks
service. Funnily enough, those objectives don't specifically include
satisfying one Ed Dolan !

If you want to have a 'church' then do it on your own

land. On public lands, you have to share.

If the land managers were doing their jobs properly, the very
first thing they would do is ban bikes from all trails used by hikers. You can't
share what can't be shared.

You can't share ... that's the fundamental issue. The land managers are doing their jobs just fine and most people can share without any major issues. Only arrogant and sociopathic individuals think they can have everything they want and damn everyone else.

The reports of conflicts are pouring in by the thousands. Note the latest wrinkle:

From: "Janet Peterson"
Subject: Eagles at Lake Folsom
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 23:45:18 -0800

ParkWatchReport is a web-based service that can now be accessed from any smartphone, laptop, desktop computer, tablet or iPad. It serves the needs of land managers who operate on small budgets and limited staff by collecting reports from the public electronically (including photos and GPS locations) of incidents like speeding bikes, fallen trees, untidy bathrooms, leaky water fountains, injured wildlife, fire hazards, and safety concerns.

Until now a comprehensive data base of such reports has never been developed and as a result problems like trail conflict have never truly been addressed. Without hard facts land managers have a difficult time 1) finding/identifying offenders 2) justifying additional law enforcement support, 3) getting greater restrictions placed on offensive/dangerous types trail users, 4)boosting fines to an effective point, etc.

ParkWatchReport gives the public the ability to deliver an accurate, first-hand account of what life is like on our public trails. They are dangerous and people who are justifiably concerned about injuries like equestrians, senior citizens, mom’s with youngsters, dog walkers, etc no longer enjoy using the trails. This is sad. To bring civility and enjoyment back the public can file a report in under three minutes from their smartphone and a permanent record of their report is 1) retained by the land manager with jurisdiction and 2) by ParkWatchReport, LLC. The offense is now on record and a land manger is informed and therefore accountable.

The goal of ParkWatchReport is to see rules, restrictions, penalties and trail designations revised to reflect what is in the best interest of the majority of trails users by providing land managers with the irrefutable and unbiased data they need substantiate the needed changes.

This is the short version of the answer to your question “how does it work?” For a longer answer, I’ve attached an Overview, a draft sent to Trail Blazer Magazine, and a flier for potential sponsors for the Mt Tam Site. In addition to the site you might also like to check out the site which was launched Nov 1 by the El Dorado Parks and Rec dept.

Thanks for your interest.

Janet Peterson
(530) 878-4750

As a side note, Mt Tamalpais will be subscribing to the newest version of ParkWatchReport in order to collect data on the dangerous and illegal activities on the trails and the park in general. This should prove to be very helpful to both the rangers and the hikers/equestrians that have been run off the Mt Tam trails by mt bikers.

are even leading your own children to your ****ed-up

sport. You will rue that if
and when they are injured, paralyzed or killed. I have

warned you. There are
none so stupid as those who will not heed a


I will take no lessons from you in terms of

safety. You acknowledged that roads are far more dangerous but would still
displace bikers from trails onto roads because you want to enjoy the trails in

Some roads are dangerous, others aren't. Young people who ride
bikes are going to be riding on streets and roads regardless of your nutty

Mine don't ... they ride exclusively on trails. No roads.

Your kids will soon relate more to their peer group than a nut like you.

I find your references to children totally and

utterly sociopathic; that anyone would think it appropriate to wish death or
serious injury to a child simply to advance a narrow recreational activity
preference is horrendous. You should apologise, but of course you won't,
because you genuinely don't understand, much less care, about anyone

The only pathology being presented here is yours. You don't
even care enough about the safety of your own children to prevent them from
riding on trails. You and yours deserve whatever happens.

So, how is it uncaring to allow them to cycle in a SAFER location ? Not safe, I know that, but far far safer than on the road.

Residential streets are safe. Hiking trails are only safe for hikers, not for bikers regardless of age.

Here is a recent media report from the UK for you to

Shall I reciprocate with 3 reports of hiker problems for you to contemplate ? They do, after all, outnumber the biking ones by a factor of roughly 3.

Or would you prefer to read about road bike deaths ?

What a sick puppy you are.

I will enjoy reading some day that you have managed to kill yourself by doing something stupid – like riding your bike on a hiking trail.

I must admit I am a sociopath when it comes to mountain

on my trails. If looks could kill, they would all be dead

and rotting in
cemeteries. As a sign of my respect for mountain bikers

who ride their bikes on
trails I would **** on their graves.

Well, yes, if someone was hiking or riding on my land

I might feel rather aggrieved too ... oh no, wait, these AREN'T your trails are
they Ed ? No, in fact they're public land ! So, you can relax ... no
one is riding on your trails at all.

Trails on public lands are OUR trails, They are not yours for
doing whatever you want on them. Trails belong to hikers, not to Asshole
mountain bikers. A generation ago everyone in the world knew that - even your
sainted grandfather!

No, Ed, the trails do not belong to hikers. They belong to people .... and you can state the converse as many times as you like ... but it's still untrue.

People ... doing what! You make no sense whatever.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain biking!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
Saint Edward the Great


Home - Home - Home - Home - Home