On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 9:13:15 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:54:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:09:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 5:44:42 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 4:04:08 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:

Jay, the headset for my Douglas is absolutely NOT the standard hidden headset. It requires a Cane Creek 40 series headset which is not a week off. And I have to get the bottom FSA bottom headset race removed. It appears that the Cane Creek is not a press in but just drops right in and is held in place without motion by the pressure of the top cap.
I would not have had all of these problems is Colorado Cyclist had answered their emails to both their service center and sales.
Down the rabbit hole again. First, quit using all the wrong terms like "flush mount" or "hidden headset." Those are all wrong and don't follow modern designations. There is no standard "hidden headset." Second, the Cane Creek 40 series can be external (EC) internal orZero Stack (ZS), integrated (IS), hybrid, etc., etc. https://canecreek.com/product/forty/ Look at the dropdown menu. The series number tells you nothing about your headset type. It's just a mid-fi product line.

Next, are there cups pressed into your frame? Please answer yes or no.
Does it look like the middle one: https://bike.bikegremlin.com/wp-cont...eadset-cup.jpg Have you been measuring to the inside of the cup or to the actual wall of the headtube? If so, WTF?

If you DO NOT have cups pressed into your frame, and you properly measured the upper headtube bore at 41mm, then that CONFIRMS an IS41 internal headset -- that and a milled-in bearing seat and the fact the bike is spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. A ZS headset would have an ID of 44mm and not 41mm. At least that covers it for the upper bearing. If you have a hybrid headset, you could have a ZS lower bearing -- there could be a cup pressed in there that would have an ID of 41mm. The pictures I posted previous of the Fusion did NOT have a ZS lower because there was no visible cup shoulder. But if the Vector has a lower, pressed in, flush mounted ZS cup, then you have a hybrid headset and need to buy one of those.

This would be a five minute inspection in a bike shop -- or a five minute diagnosis on this NG if you didn't leak cryptic information and posted some pictures -- maybe with some calipers across the bore of the HT and looking down the bore.
Jay, if you don't like my terminology that's just too bad. The bike shop who is going to remove that unnecessary fork race called is a flush mount. Why don't you complain to him? After all, he was only the 7-11 team mechanic.
Great. He can work on historical bikes. And if he is so great, he should be able to order you a headset in five minutes. Its a f****** integrated headset, and your options are limited.
Why are you suddenly pretending that somehow I chose the incorrect headset when I gave ALL of the correct measurements and you said that the SAME headset you use on the Specialized would work?
No, and you still haven't answered my questions -- but Specialized typically uses a Campy standard IS42. I told you you need an IS41, which is PROBABLY correct -- but we'll never know because you crab walk every time someone tries to get a straight answer from you. So, I'm giving up on trying to help. For all I know, your frame could have ZS cups left in it or have some other problem. We'll never know.
Again, I CALLED Colorado Cyclist after they would not respond to either the sales or service emails and they did not tell me the correct part number, they only said that they do not carry "that part" in stock.
Why would Colorado Cyclist care about dealing with some guy who bought a bike that they quit re-selling more than a decade ago? The sales people were probably in grade school when that POS was made.
I explained in great detail the diameter and depth of the recesses in the headtube for the headset and then was stupid enough to take your advice rather than just going up to Robby and putting up with his bull**** of making an appointment, walking up to a locked door and then texting him to let me in and always, always wear a mask because his life depends upon it.
You explained the diameter but not whether there were cups in the frame.. If it has a 41mm ID/bore -- and assuming your measurement is correct -- it is an IS41 IF the bike was spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. Just like I said. And if it is not, then what is it? YOU STILL HAVE NOT SAID WHAT KIND OF HEADSET ROBBY SAYS YOU HAVE. Why is it always hide the ball with your stupid projects?

In the time it takes you to build one of these POS bikes, I could build six bikes, wax my skis and maybe put moss kill on the roof -- and take a vacation to the Bahamas. It's staggering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJIj...DoorIntoSummer
Jay, I'm not blaming you for making a mistake so quit acting like I am. I'm just warning you not to jump to conclusions and give advice when you don't know what's going on. I should not have taken advice from you. I specifically SAID that there were no cups inside of the bore but only that there was a layout to insert a headset. I gave the 41 mm inside diameter and you told me that your type of headset would work. In fact it is 44 mm. I was the one that assumed that means the bearing area and not the OD. I really don't need you lawyering this when it is entirely unnecessary.

What is 44mm? Where did that number come from? What are you taking about? There is NO 44mm dimension with a IS41 headset. 44mm is the dimension for a 1 1/8" ZS headset. I have been going on and on about IS41 headsets -- I never, ever told you to get a ZS with a 44mm dimension. Are you now telling me that the bike takes a ZS headset?

I don't give a **** about when Colorado Cyclist people were born. If THEY made and sold a product I would at least expect them to be able to give me a part number of a unique part. Robbie has NOT even seen the bike so how could he say what part it uses? I am assuming that the Cane Creek IS41 is the correct part because of the measurements that they give for it.

Dream on. When was that bike made? 2003? That is ancient history for an internet seller. There was no Douglas company with customer service and a website with parts numbers. It was a f***** commodity. Try going to Bikes Direct and asking for a headset for a 2003 Motobecane. Same thing. Maybe you can call the company that made it, whoever they may be. Or, gasp, waste some of your precious retirement spare time and go to Robby's shop and put an end to this idiocy.

-- Jay Beattie.