"Rick Hopkins" wrote in message
...
On Feb 10, 12:13 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
[...]
BS. I'm the world expert on the harm that mountain biking does, and I
have given papers on the subject at a couple dozen scientific
conferences. You haven't given a single citation to support your
contention. For example, how EXACTLY do you balance serious injury and
death against the alleged health benefits of mountain biking? What
WEIGHT, for example, to give a death? It can't be done, except
subjectively, so your conclusion is BS. That's like the m=land
managers who claim to be able to "BALANCE" recreation with
conservation. What a joke! You are nothing but an amateur pretending
to be a professional.

Mike, you have published no peered reviewed scientific articles on the
subject in any credible journal (Ecology, Con Bio, J. Animal Ecology,
J Wildlife Mgt, etc.). Some of your talks are not official talks and
some are at feel good conferences where abstract rejection is near
zero. - at the SCB talk in Sj a few years ago, during the break (I
assume your abstract was rejected because it was was fantasy - oh btw
I gave a rather well received talked on using sophisticated spatial
models to identify suitable habitats and landscape linkages in a
40,000 Km2 landscape in SoCal for the cougar) - you on the other hand,
badgered the monitor to let you speak during the break to the handful
of people who were simply hanging around. She later told us over beers
she was hijacked and was completely ****ed off by you. In fact a
highly respected international conservation biologist leaned over to
where I and my colleagues were sitting and quipped " my god he has
just sucked all of the science out of the room" - and he did not mean
that as a compliment. So you are the world authority only in your
mind. You and Ed have been completely ineffective and have had
absolutely no influence on land use decisions relating to mt. bikes.

As a former university librarian who had to read those damn scientific
journals I can tell you that I am not enamored of any of them. Academicians
are forced to publish all sorts of nonsense in order to retain status and
prestige in their careers. Most of it is nothing but foolishness and
unreadable.

There is actually quite an active community who hate mountain biking and who
have had and are having an effect on land managers. I think you will see
more and more closures to mountain biking in the future as a result of the
activities of Mr. Vandeman. I will admit I am just an onlooker.

I have not been on news groups for months and out of boredom peaked
[peeked] in
a few days ago and imagine my surprise when I noted nothing has
changed and 80% of the post were you and Ed. Kind of like a bad soap
opera. I was only mildly surprised to find out you were arrested
sometime ago and had to do a little digging to find out what that was
all about. You speak to an audience of 12, news groups are dying.
Facebook, specific bike forums (they monitor and throw malcontents
off), etc, have replaced news groups - you guys are dinosaurs.

I agree with you that Usenet newsgroups are either dead or dying. I have
been ranting against unmoderated newsgroups for years, yet I do not like to
be moderated by fools which is invariably the case with moderated
newsgroups. Facebook is for mindless social chatter and specific bike forums
on websites are for those who like to be bored to death by conventional
blather. I say post free or die ... even though I must admit it doesn't work
very well.

Your problem is that you dislike being disagreed with and you would killfile
anyone for that reason alone. Unlike you, I thrive on disagreement and it
doesn't bother me how heated the discussion gets. I will make my points and
I allow my opponent to make his points. Being fair in that regard is all
that counts with me.

Enjoy speaking to a small crowd, I doubt I will run into you again,
unless of course you break into another meeting in a disingenuous
manner. And thank god I will never run into Ed as he seems way to
[too] ignorant to have anything remotely approaching a conversation.

You know nothing of how mountain bikers communicate their messages on Usenet
cycling forums. They mostly threaten and bully, but I have done them better
in those departments. Mr. Vandeman is a gentleman and a scholar. I am
neither. You have to get to the level of whoever it is you are communicating
with. Otherwise you end up frustrated by their boorishness.

You do not fall into the typical mountain biker category. If you did, all
you would be doing by now is name calling - something that I am also quite
expert at!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota