John B. writes:

On Sat, 12 May 2018 21:37:56 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 5/12/2018 6:49 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
David Scheidt writes:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/11/2018 4:10 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :On 5/10/2018 11:19 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: : Frank Krygowski wrote:
: : :On 5/10/2018 6:15 PM, John B. wrote:
: : :
: : : I suspect that you, like I, are what might be called a sensible rider.
: : : RE, door zones, just slow down a bit so you have time to dodge the
: : : door if necessary.
: :
: : :Um... no, that's not sensible.
: :
: : :Consider what happens if you're riding just 15 kph and a driver pops his
: : :door open as you pass his rear bumper. There's no way to stop in time.
: :
: : :If you're lucky, you'll hit his door squarely and crumple beneath it. If
: : :you're unlucky, you'll snag the door edge with your right handlebar, the
: : :bike will steer to the right, your body will be thrown down to the left,
: : :and the motor vehicle you were worried about will run over you.
: :
: : :Unlike mountain lion attacks, dooring really is a danger. Most states
: : :don't record it as a car-bike collision, because they record those only
: : :if the car was moving. But Chicago did keep track, and found that
: : :something like 20% of car-bike crashes were doorings.
: :
: : And we have a $1000 fine for causing an accident by dooring -- and the
: : cops write the tickets.
: :
: : on't ride in the door zone. Just don't.
: :
: : Yeah, you live in smallsville. If I don't ride in the door zone, it
: : takes me three times as long to get to work.
:
: :Why are those the only choices? Details, please. What happens if you
: :move a few feet left?
:
: My commute invovles riding past a mile (literally, one mile) of cars
: that are stopped at stop signs or lights. Riding between them and
: parked cars gets me to the light or sign in one cycle. Moving to the
: left puts me in stopped traffic.

:OK. That's an unusual situation, one that I think is quite rare. We

Sounds like progress. Several years ago I described riding past more
than a mile of cars on a typical commute (not even properly in the
city), and you simply refused to concede that such a thing was possible,
never having observed it in your global travels.

I was being nice. I'm still pretty skeptical. Example: David says the
backup is "one mile (literally one mile)" but he says if he rides past
in the door zone he gets gets to the light in one cycle.

It would seem hard to judge light cycles from a mile away.

The most common traffic light cycles are one minute, split evenly
between the two directions. OK, maybe this light has longer cycles -
say two minutes instead of one. Is he really averaging 30 miles per
hour as he rides past one mile of cars in the door zone?

And I'm still curious about which city he's riding - and now, which
city you're riding in.

The backup I described was in Concord MA, waiting for a four-way stop --
it's not urban at all, but the streets are busy at rush hour. I also
described a backup nearly as long on the street where I used to live in
Lowell MA, which is urban, and split by a river with limited bridge
capacity.

I no longer either live or work in the same places, so I don't ride that
way much any more.

But again, I think such a situation must be pretty rare. Give me more
information to educate me.

Traffic congestion is a worldwide phenomenon. That you have managed to
avoid it is fortunate for you. Having to be at work right on time in
the morning makes life harder, and is something that one might not
notice even when travelling through a congested city.

I'm retired and so don't have to be "at work right on time" but we do,
on occasion fly somewhere and the Airlines now require that a
passenger check in on time or they give his seat to someone else, so
the effect is the same.

So far I haven't found a burden... get up early enough to get to _ _
_ _ on time.

You do that what, three or four times a year? And 10,000 of your
neighbors don't happen to have the same appointment?

Perhaps if all those people in Bangkok were to take a page from your
lesson book their roads would all look like Cowntown, NH, back in 1943.
Or maybe not.

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