On Feb 8, 8:03*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Feb 7, 9:42*pm, Rick Hopkins wrote:









On Feb 7, 6:54*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:

"Bob Berger" wrote in message

...
[...]

Rick: Will you PLEASE stop cluttering up this thread with facts.

None of you confounded mountain bikers would know a fact if it jumped up and
bit you in your dumb asses.

Trails are for hikers, roads are for bikers. Anyone who thinks otherwise is
a poor ****ed-up *******!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Yawn, Ed, when you actually say something intelligent and relevant I
am sure the world will actually end. *Are your meds giving out that
you cannot keep your attention span together long enough to read? *No,
Mike posted a article on a gentlemen who died while mt. biking
implying strenuous exercise associated with mt. biking is bad, the
medical profession disagrees with you and Mike. *If you are a healthy
adult, regular strenuous exercise is good for your heart health - even
more than simply strolling through the forest, which in its own right
is enjoyable for many different reasons. *I made no value judgement as
to mt. biking good or bad, simply your heart has no idea whether it is
being "trained" or stressed while doing any number of back country
activities such as trail running, cross country skiing, snow shoeing,
and long distance power hiking. *I assume you look on these extreme
sports type with disdain as they are not walking through the forest
with their walker. *Most hikes I undertake are 10 plus miles and many
push 20 miles usually at high elevation (the Sierra, I own a house at
6400 ft and go up from there) with extreme elevation gain. You may
haul your over weight ass at a snails pace so your heart rate does not
get above 75 bpm, but I and most of my hiking friends push ourselves.
Maybe you hang out at the pub keeping your belly large, but I hang out
with a largely uber fit crowd of hikers, runners (I have a couple of
friends who are part of the ultra marathon crowd, 50 to 100 mile back
country runs), cyclist (most road cyclist, but some mt. bikers),
triatholoners, skaters who all crave (admitted addicted) to aerobic
activities 4 to 6 times a week. *I just got back from a 2 hr dryland
training (for skating) where we did these 15 minute drills that you
feel like you want to throw up afterwards - this will greatly improve
our skating fitness and we thrive on the pain. So I guess you and Mike
will now lobby to keep all of those crazed uber fit trail users off
the trails now. *Oh Minnesota, the great state where Santorium just
won the Republican caucus. *Tell you what you stay in Minnesota, you
fit the nut cases there.

Enjoy, Rick- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You continue to miss the point, apparently deliberately. Mountain
bikers claim that mountain biking is a healthful activity. But they
fail to mention that it OFTEN results in a serious injury or even
DEATH. That proves that their estimate of healthfulness is too high.
In fact, it's dishonest to present the positive and ignore the
negative. It's like the ads you see on TV for drugs. They talk about
the benefits, and then say the side effects include "possible
fatality" (they are required to say that, or they wouldn't). Mountain
bikers aren't even that honest. Nor are you. In this newsgroup, only
Ed and I tell the truth. QED Get it now? You left out the information
from doctors about how dangerous mountain biking is. They are honest;
you are NOT.

Gotha!

You and Ed score extremely high on the narcissistic scale and seem to
be infatuated with each other. Instead of discussing issues, if some
offers another opinion, you reflectively call people mt bikers and
liars - meaning you lost the argument. Instead of labeling someone a
mt. biker, let's evaluate whether or not most people would consider me
one or not. We know you have a very low threshold, someone merely has
to have once owned a mt. bike to be a mt. biker in your world - a
world populated by only you and Ed I might add.

I just did a quick query of my training dairy (Polar ProTrainer) and
in 2011, I engaged in (or more accurately recorded heart rate
information) 358 activities. There were many days where I would do 2
or 3 activities in a day, for example, snow shoe in the morning, ski
mid-morning to the afternoon and then skate in the evening; or I might
road ride, skate and than dryland train on the same day - each a
distinct activity that lasted 1 or more hrs. The breakdown in order of
frequency is 121 road cycling events (from 1 to 8 hr efforts), 102
speed skating events (1 to 3 hr efforts), 31 days hiking (1 to 12 hr
efforts; did not back pack last year, 1st time in many years), 31
dryland/gym efforts (1 to 3 hr), 21 trail runs (1 to 2 hr), 20 snow
shoeing efforts (1 to 4 hrs), 17 days skiing (2 to 8 hrs), 12 inline
skate efforts (0.5 to 2 hrs - just picked these up late summer took
some getting use to the boots), 3 mt. bike events (1, 1 and 4 hr
efforts). I did not throw in a couple of kayak days in Lake Tahoe or
some other excursions like walking miles in Manhattan with my daughter
during the Christmas break. 34% and 28% of my effort was on a road
bike and speed skating, respectively. In other words, these two
activities made up 62% of those activities I recorded. Eight tenths
of 1 percent was spent mt. biking. Hiking, trail running and snow
shoeing made up 96% of my time in the back country with the 3 mt bike
rides I did accounted for 4%. So now we can talk facts and decide what
best characterizes my activity. Most folks (except maybe 2 people on
the planet) would say I am a road cyclist and speed skater, and an
outdoor enthusiast. I am sure you an Ed will show just how biased an
uninteresting you are (you are more like Michelle Bachnann and Rick
Santorium then I suspect you would want to be considered) would label
me a mt. biker.

All sports have inherent risk. Some more then others. Mt. biking
falls in the middle. Orthopedic doctors from Barton Health Clinic in
Tahoe and Kaiser in the Bay Area and a OS from Arizona (I have done a
number of 100 mile road rides with him over the years) who own a major
sport clinic in Arizona (oh, and none of the 4 drs. I talked to mt.
bike) rank skiing (by leaps and bounds over other sports), football
(concussions are a big deal these days), soccer, and running as their
big four. They get smattering of basketball, cyclist (road and mt)
and other active sports. They all consider the net health benefits of
mt. biking outweigh the risk of injury. Death are not uncommon in
skiing (several across the country each year) and between 600 to 700
road cyclist are killed each year by cars. Football is primarily a US
Sport: From 1931 to 2006, the National Center for Catastrophic Sport
Injury Research has reported 1,006 direct and 683 indirect fatalities
resulting from participation in all organized football (professional,
college, high school, and sandlot) in the US.[6]; the yearly number of
indirect fatalities has remained near 9.0 per year. I personally have
known 5 people killed by cars while road cycling (dozens seriously
hurt), 3 people killed backcountry skiing, 1 person kayacking, 3
people drowning while swimming (across a lake), 3 people died while
hiking in the back country (mostly due to the elements but one slipped
off a cliff - check out the books on deaths in Yosemite and
Yellowstone - lots of hikers have died in those parks, i.e., slipping
off hiking up to half dome), 2 mountaineering and from mt. biking.
Now these were not al friends but include brief acquaintances.

For my own part, as you see I am extremely active and the four most
serious injuries I have ever suffered (all have happened in the last 4
yrs); I fractured my patella skiing April 2010 required surgery, back
on my road bike with 10 weeks and the skiis 8 months later; modest
strain to my right ACL 3 years ago while backpacking (needed PT and
rest for 3 months); slight strain to my left ACL while skating 4 years
ago (rest 1 month) and knocked off my road bike while descending Mt
Wilson in Southern California by a stray dog, did not see a doctor but
had miles of road rash - off the bike for 3 weeks. I have never
injured by self while on a mt. bike, but admittedly do not ride mt.
bikes all that often these days. I have had two friends who broke an
arm and leg while mt. biking and am aware of several scraps and
bruises, but that is about it. In my world, based on the large pool
of active people I hang with, mt. biking is not without risk, but road
cycling is clearly the most dangerous and lethal with skiing second
(in terms of mortality while doing). I know a couple of folks who
have shifted exclusively to mt. bike because cars simply scare the
**** out of them. They focus on the climbs and simply cruise on
descents so I do not expect them to be seriously hurt as most mt.
bikers don't get hurt. OBTW, other than a strained ACL skating, while
I have not sought medical assistance, slamming into a padding wall at
20mph while skating can and does hurt.

I am well informed and choose to take on sports with some low risks
because I simply enjoy them - in the end, I am much happier, extremely
fit (my main goal for the year is the Markeville Death Ride, a 129
mile road ride climbing 5 Sierra Passes for over 15,000 ft of climbing
- I will be hitting speeds in excess of 50mph on the descents) and
admit I am addicted to the rush from regularly pushing my HR in the
red-zone (for me that is above 175 bpm).

If you choose to lead a calmer life, great for you, but dowdy old men
(like you and Ed) should not judge those of us who seek out intense
activities such as road cycling (very dangerous compared to mt.
biking) and skating.

Enjoy

rick